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If you do not think Universal smelled blood in the water before...
- Thread starter Funmeister
- Start date
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
Right now, Universal has Potter 2.0, Kong, Cabana Bay, and CityWalk under construction in Orlando. Potter, Springfield, Fast and Furious, a new nighttime tram tour, and just opened Despicable Me in Hollywood. Potter in Osaka. A new dark ride in Singapore. And a whole new resort in Beijing. I don't really think Universal is paying much attention to what Disney is doing.
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mahnamahna101
Well-Known Member
Universal Singapore is getting a new dark ride? And BTTF is rumored to be joining the nighttime tram to be coming. I agree that Comcast is looking to better themselves without regards to what the Mouse is doing
Yea, because Universal passes don't cost an arm and a leg. Are you suggesting that repeat visitors somehow don't count?
Pretty sure the parks care about market share. A lot. And one resort has been shooting up like a rocket in that category, while the other remains stagnant. Are you really going to be content with adding however many visitors to your numbers when your competition starts adding a lot more each year? Especially when most of those people were already going to your resort? Because that's less time spent there, less money spent there, and it will add up.
Smaller parks? Compared to what? Please don't make me count the number of attractions in DHS and DAK. It's too depressing. But you've already told us you've never been to Universal, so I don't know why you're trying to make any sort of comparison to begin with.
Market share the way it's been reported is adding the attendance at all the parks. All either company has to do is add another gate and if only those with season tickets go to it their market share will go up the way it is reported. IMO a better way to calculate how each park is doing would none to calculate it by how many unique people visit Disney and never set foot at Universal and how many people visit Universal and never set foot on Disney and finally how many visit both and how many days at each park. I know this is not possible except for the Department of Homeland Security that could figure this out based on cell phone records but it is the only way to actually determine real market share.
As for the rest of this I would still like to remind everyone that I have never said anything bad about Universal unlike many of the posters here have said about a Disney. This and other boards should be used for reasonable discussions and not insults.
As for the rest of this I would still like to remind everyone that I have never said anything bad about Universal unlike many of the posters here have said about a Disney. This and other boards should be used for reasonable discussions and not insults.
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TubaGeek
God bless the "Ignore" button.
I really don't care that much what Disney or Universal are doing outside of Florida. Yes, they all have an effect on my local parks, but I'm selfish.
Right here, right now, Disney is investing in MM+ and slow, infrequent expansions and rethemings.
Uni is looking at one large and one small project each year, generally, and REALISTICALLY looking at MASSIVE rumored expansions.
At Uni, I can entertain myself at the newest, most advanced themed attractions, while watching projects appear before my eyes.
Disney... There are only TWO projects actually being worked on. One is virtually finished and the other has hardly begun. Everything else is optimisic speculation.
Right here, right now, Disney is investing in MM+ and slow, infrequent expansions and rethemings.
Uni is looking at one large and one small project each year, generally, and REALISTICALLY looking at MASSIVE rumored expansions.
At Uni, I can entertain myself at the newest, most advanced themed attractions, while watching projects appear before my eyes.
Disney... There are only TWO projects actually being worked on. One is virtually finished and the other has hardly begun. Everything else is optimisic speculation.
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lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The number of people visiting Orlando has increased, something Disney thought could not happen. Universal has also proven that people have more spending money and that it is possible to be more than a side trip from Walt Disney World.
NMBC1993
Well-Known Member
While it's no surprise that the theme park industry has changed, it's not hard to see why. I myself as a die-hard Disney fan have decided that once the summer rush is over, to purchase a Universal AP and will be spending more of my time over there. It's wasn't an easy decision to make, going against the mouse but even I can't defend them anymore. That isn't to say that I will be giving up on Disney completely, I thoroughly enjoy their cruise offerings and feel that DCL is the greatest deal on the high seas. Unfortunately with price increases happening almost daily at WDW with no real return from our investments, I see no reason to continue to "Snort the Pixie Dust". I have many fond memories thanks to WDW, but now it's time to make some new ones. In the meantime I'll leave TWDC with a quote from one of their own attractions...
"A World With So Many Eager Customers is Always Worth Our GREATEST EFFORT" - L.C. Clench
"A World With So Many Eager Customers is Always Worth Our GREATEST EFFORT" - L.C. Clench
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If TDO never thought the number of visitors to Orlando would grow why would they have spent money developing their October 2010 plan which called for up to 10,000 more hotel rooms by 2020. Given what is now starting again at Flamingo Crossing they will probably make it or even more sine we all know another large DVC is going to be built. What is now being built is a good sign for the major growth to come to WDW.
As for locals buying Universal season passes I would expect thar. I have a Six Flagg Season pass since I live in New Jersey and like the safari ride. In fact I go their much more often than I go to WDW but where do you think I spend more money and love it and who makes the most money from me? Profits are what companies want. Disney has and will most likely continue to make lots of money from me as they give me lots of enjoyment. aSaiax Flagg likes me because I do go their and they make money from me too. Other parks in a Orlando will like me too as I start to spend an exry day or two off site but I can only see my time at WDW growing longer in the future and maybe spend a.total of 5 weeks in Orlando a year. 4 weeks just doing WDW and 1 week everything else.
Because they can have someone else pay them to take all the risk and hope the room availability amount isn't over saturated? And if it then TDO still get the money?
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lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Disney's goal was to shift existing off site visitors, not significantly grow the total numbers. That is why they are obsessed with hotel capacity and not park capacity.
NMBC1993
Well-Known Member
The problem with your statement is exactly the reason I'm jumping ship at WDW. It seems that they've got their priorities backwards, instead of building attractions and entertainment, they are focused on DVC and new resorts. While it is nice to see new resort offerings (I was very thankful for the rounding off of the Pop Century area) these resorts do not add more to the overall Disney experience that hasn't already been accomplished by the other 26 Disney operated resorts. Notice that Universal is just now wrapping up their 4th resort while at the same time opening 2 new lands in the parks with many new additions on the way. I find it sad that Disney can build a DVC resort in the same time frame that Universal can build Transformers but when it comes to a Barnstormer type coaster, or any attraction for that matter, it takes them twice the time it should have. The only conclusion I can make from this is TDO cares more about GETTING you to WDW than what your going to do once you get there. That is a theme park no-no in my book.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Companies constantly evaluate alternatives. However, until those companies invest their own capital to realize those opportunities, those plans really shouldn't be taken seriously.
WDW has a "plan" for a 5th Gate. It doesn't mean it's going to happen in my lifetime.
Conversely, if other companies are willing to pony up investment funds and assume nearly all the risk, Disney would be foolish not to take advantage of those opportunities.
Disney saturated the timeshare market with the overlapping construction of SSR, BLT, and AKV. With around 100 rooms each, VGF and the Poly DVC are tiny by comparison. VGF is the smallest Orlando DVC ever while the DVC at the Poly centers around converting excess hotel capacity that went unused throughout the year.
A large part of the original justification for NextGen (now MyMagic+) back in the late 2000s was a belief that Orlando tourism had plateaued, with Orlando expected to realize only small gains moving forward.
With U.S. wages stagnating, Disney previously having successfully penetrated the European market, and the high-end of the vacation industry having become more competitive, opportunities for continued WDW attendance expansion were believed to be limited to Canada and South America.
(As a side note, in the past few years, both WDW and Universal have been highly successful attracting guests from Brazil and Argentina but since U.S. vacations so are expensive, only about the top 3% or so of earners from those countries can afford the trip. Orlando might already be at peak attendance from South America.)
In such a business climate, the goal of NextGen was to capture a larger percentage of vacation dollars already being spent in Orlando, rather than attract new vacationers to Orlando. Considering that WDW already dominated the Orlando market, one could question the wisdom of this reasoning but it there was considerable excitement in Burbank at the time to this Blue Ocean Strategy thinking.
The wildly successful Wizzarding World Of Harry Potter (WWOHP) in 2010 should have been a wakeup call to Disney executives. It wasn't, and NextGen marched forward anyway. Now, Disney is playing catch-up with Pandora, which was a knee-jerk reaction to WWOHP.
Only recently has Disney realized that they might have badly misjudged the Orlando tourism market.
Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
your explanation reminds me a lot of something I read.. about what happens in Hollywood a lot.Companies constantly evaluate alternatives. However, until those companies invest their own capital to realize those opportunities, those plans really shouldn't be taken seriously.
WDW has a "plan" for a 5th Gate. It doesn't mean it's going to happen in my lifetime.
Conversely, if other companies are willing to pony up investment funds and assume nearly all the risk, Disney would be foolish not to take advantage of those opportunities.
Disney saturated the timeshare market with the overlapping construction of SSR, BLT, and AKV. With around 100 rooms each, VGF and the Poly DVC are tiny by comparison. VGF is the smallest Orlando DVC ever while the DVC at the Poly centers around converting excess hotel capacity that went unused throughout the year.
A large part of the original justification for NextGen (now MyMagic+) back in the late 2000s was a belief that Orlando tourism had plateaued, with Orlando expected to realize only small gains moving forward.
With U.S. wages stagnating, Disney previously having successfully penetrated the European market, and the high-end of the vacation industry having become more competitive, opportunities for continued WDW attendance expansion were believed to be limited to Canada and South America.
(As a side note, in the past few years, both WDW and Universal have been highly successful attracting guests from Brazil and Argentina but since U.S. vacations so are expensive, only about the top 3% or so of earners from those countries can afford the trip. Orlando might already be at peak attendance from South America.)
In such a business climate, the goal of NextGen was to capture a larger percentage of vacation dollars already being spent in Orlando, rather than attract new vacationers to Orlando. Considering that WDW already dominated the Orlando market, one could question the wisdom of this reasoning but it there was considerable excitement in Burbank at the time to this Blue Ocean Strategy thinking.
The wildly successful Wizzarding World Of Harry Potter (WWOHP) in 2010 should have been a wakeup call to Disney executives. It wasn't, and NextGen marched forward anyway. Now, Disney is playing catch-up with Pandora, which was a knee-jerk reaction to WWOHP.
Only recently has Disney realized that they might have badly misjudged the Orlando tourism market.
they buy scripts left and right and then theres plans..
but sometimes studios only buy scripts to prevent other studios from doing a movie even if there was a tiny opportunity of making the movie of said script.
Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
no surprise this has caused them to rethink their plans by starting the new expansions (avatar.. new shows..etc..)
NMBC1993
Well-Known Member
The only problem...they're doing it at a snail's pace.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but weren't all new projects, except ones that were already geenlit put on hold till further notice?
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ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Generally, companies like timeshares because, as far as real estate goes, it's a quick and hefty ROI.
In Disney's case, what DVC does is sacrifice long-term profits for short-term profits. Since the executives making these decisions tend to be focused on this year's bonus and stock options, DVC is a no-brainer for most.
DVC works on a points system. It takes a certain number of points to book a room. There are 2 primary costs associated with DVC; the purchase price and an annual Maintenance Fee (MF). Both typically are thought of in terms of price-per-point.
I'll use the Boardwalk Villas (BWV) as an example.
BWV opened in 1996 at a purchase price of $65/point. Today, it takes 108 points to book a Standard View Studio for a week at BWV during the summer or spring break, which means someone would have had to pony up $7020 back in 1996 to purchase enough points to book that room today. That $7020 looked really good to the bottom line in 1996, and executives would have been well-compensated back then for strong DVC sales.
However, there are long-term consequences.
In 2014, it takes 108 points to book that room. With the current BWV MF at $6.01/point, that means the room costs the DVC member $649/week or less than $93/night including tax!
I double-dog dare you to find any room at the Boardwalk Inn for $93/night for any time of the year.
What Disney did with BWV was sacrifice profits for decades in order to realize substantial profits back in 1996.
Realistically, how many Disney executives in the 1990s were worried about the problems they were creating in 2014 when they OK'ed the BWV DVC?
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lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Avatar is not much of an expansion in terms of drawing additional people. It, along with the night time offerings, will help spread crowds away from the Magic Kingdom. There is nothing aggressive about Disney's present strategy for Walt Disney World.