If Walt Disney died in 1986 instead of 1966 how do things change?

[Walt Disney1955]

You could say that about any of his creations…. Yet he demonstrated time and time again a willingness to let go to chase his next interest.

People think he might hand off and move on… because that is exactly ehat he did time and time again

I think just based on his age alone he may have let some others pick up a bit more of a slack with things. He was going to get older, I have a hard time seeing him let it go completely though and not have the final say on things. When you hear him say "Disneyland will never be finished" I think that alone is the thing Walt wanted all along. You can make a movie like Snow White but once it is done it is done. Disneyland would never be done, or WDW. I don't think he'd ever get bored with that. Naturally we don't know just how much age would have an impact on him. He died at 65 so we still have this image of Walt where he never got truly old.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

Walt without Roy would have been, IMHO, a recipe for disaster. I'm not saying that Walt was ignorant when it came to the business side of things, but it was definitely Roy who kept the business on track. Much like things fell apart in the Eisner era when Wells was gone, I think the same would have happened to Walt if Roy was gone.

Walt was definitely a creative genius. I don't think anyone argues that. There's certainly no question that he could have continued to develop better ideas for the parks than what we, in many cases, have today. But he also had many ideas that would not work and needed to be reined in by Roy. For example, he originally didn't want a traditional Disneyland-style theme park in Florida. He wanted it to be all about Epcot. He was convinced to do Magic Kingdom by Roy. I also think Walt's original ideas for Epcot were doomed to failure.

So, as with most things, it would have likely been a mixed bag.

He did listen to things eventually. He was against any sort of rollercoaster in Disneyland. But they kept telling him the people were asking for it so in 1959 Matterhorn got built. We'll never know in the end, although it is fun to speculate.

 

[Goofyernmost]

He did listen to things eventually. He was against any sort of rollercoaster in Disneyland. But they kept telling him the people were asking for it so in 1959 Matterhorn got built. We'll never know in the end, although it is fun to speculate.

It's not that much fun to speculate if you don't see a positive outcome. In spite of Walt's faults (and there were many) I admired him for his imagination and his willingness to take chances. I can remember staying on eighth floor of a hotel on International Drive and standing on the wrap around entrance balcony while gazing out in all four directions. Thinking to myself, all that I see here is the direct result of one man with a vision.

Four and five lane highways, massive buildings and more businesses than I could even hope to count sitting in a place that was once a pasture/swamp and imagining how it must have looked in 1966. I understand that it is questionable as to whether or not the changes really were for the better, but it certainly was formidable. I admire him for having the ability for one person to have that much influence and direct affect on millions of people.

Because of that, coupled with my opinion, Walt's EPCOT would have killed the entire dream and left him with a colossal failure that he wouldn't have had time to recuperate from, makes me sad. I feel that he died with a massive, happy and huge plan for something that he believed he could make happen instead of spending his final years possibly broke and his legacy destroyed. That makes me not want to speculate about it anymore. I just want to remember the 4 decades of joy, fun and happiness that I experienced because of that same man who left us at the pinnacle of success. Still, thanks to Roy, as far as WDW is concerned, gave so many of us so much joy.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

It's not that much fun to speculate if you don't see a positive outcome. In spite of Walt's faults (and there were many) I admired him for his imagination and his willingness to take chances. I can remember staying on eighth floor of a hotel on International Drive and standing on the wrap around entrance balcony while gazing out in all four directions. Thinking to myself, all that I see here is the direct result of one man with a vision.

Four and five lane highways, massive buildings and more businesses than I could even hope to count sitting in a place that was once a pasture/swamp and imagining how it must have looked in 1966. I understand that it is questionable as to whether or not the changes really were for the better, but it certainly was formidable. I admire him for having the ability for one person to have that much influence and direct affect on millions of people.

Because of that, coupled with my opinion, Walt's EPCOT would have killed the entire dream and left him with a colossal failure that he wouldn't have had time to recuperate from, makes me sad. I feel that he died with a massive, happy and huge plan for something that he believed he could make happen instead of spending his final years possibly broke and his legacy destroyed. That makes me not want to speculate about it anymore. I just want to remember the 4 decades of joy, fun and happiness that I experienced because of that same man who left us at the pinnacle of success. Still, thanks to Roy, as far as WDW is concerned, gave so many of us so much joy.

Well said!

 

[Robbiem]

It's not that much fun to speculate if you don't see a positive outcome. In spite of Walt's faults (and there were many) I admired him for his imagination and his willingness to take chances. I can remember staying on eighth floor of a hotel on International Drive and standing on the wrap around entrance balcony while gazing out in all four directions. Thinking to myself, all that I see here is the direct result of one man with a vision.

Four and five lane highways, massive buildings and more businesses than I could even hope to count sitting in a place that was once a pasture/swamp and imagining how it must have looked in 1966. I understand that it is questionable as to whether or not the changes really were for the better, but it certainly was formidable. I admire him for having the ability for one person to have that much influence and direct affect on millions of people.

Because of that, coupled with my opinion, Walt's EPCOT would have killed the entire dream and left him with a colossal failure that he wouldn't have had time to recuperate from, makes me sad. I feel that he died with a massive, happy and huge plan for something that he believed he could make happen instead of spending his final years possibly broke and his legacy destroyed. That makes me not want to speculate about it anymore. I just want to remember the 4 decades of joy, fun and happiness that I experienced because of that same man who left us at the pinnacle of success. Still, thanks to Roy, as far as WDW is concerned, gave so many of us so much joy.

I agree. Walt said in interviews his greatest achievement was in building the Disney organisation and while he sadly left us, like many people, too soon he left when it was at its peak and building and doing new things.

Roy deserves as much credit was well as you say - they were a real team with Walt as the front man and Roy the behind the scenes wing man.

 

[celluloid]

We would probably have a better version of his loudmouth granddaughter.

 

[Bastet]

It annoyed me a bit when I was at WDW last year that no mention was made of Roy on his birthday, given that it was the 50th anniversary of the park that he made sure would be built as Walt had wanted

 

[Goofyernmost]

I agree. Walt said in interviews his greatest achievement was in building the Disney organisation and while he sadly left us, like many people, too soon he left when it was at its peak and building and doing new things.

Roy deserves as much credit was well as you say - they were a real team with Walt as the front man and Roy the behind the scenes wing man.

Roy deserves total credit for everything that is WDW today. He didn't have to take the chance to build the resort based on the Magic Kingdom if he wasn't able to see how good a thing they had there. Walt was responsible w/Roy for the acquisition of the land itself, but everything the exists in WDW is there only because he also saw the possibilities. From what I can figure out, Roy was in favor of the area purchased and the building of Magic Kingdom but was not all that enthused about Walt's EPCOT.

 

[Robbiem]

Roy deserves total credit for everything that is WDW today. He didn't have to take the chance to build the resort based on the Magic Kingdom if he wasn't able to see how good a thing they had there. Walt was responsible w/Roy for the acquisition of the land itself, but everything the exists in WDW is there only because he also saw the possibilities. From what I can figure out, Roy was in favor of the area purchased and the building of Magic Kingdom but was not all that enthused about Walt's EPCOT.

Completely agree about Roy and WDW. I’m sure after Walt died it would have been really easy to build aDisneyland 2 where Disney Springs is by I4 and sell the remaining land. Roy made sure the whole property would stay as Disney. It would have been really easy to sell out to one of the big corporations as other studios did in the late 60s but Roy ensured the company remained independent and didn’t become a division of something like cocacola

 

[Walt Disney1955]

It's not that much fun to speculate if you don't see a positive outcome. In spite of Walt's faults (and there were many) I admired him for his imagination and his willingness to take chances. I can remember staying on eighth floor of a hotel on International Drive and standing on the wrap around entrance balcony while gazing out in all four directions. Thinking to myself, all that I see here is the direct result of one man with a vision.

Agree on that. Not to mention an NBA team that would have never been there in a million month of Sundays. I've seen video from when Walt and Roy met the Florida Governor in 1965 detailing their plans to open a park in central Florida. Since everyone knew how successful Disneyland was at the time it seems like the idea was welcomed by other places such as Cypress Gardens. They knew it meant more people. Without WDW there is no Universal in Orlando, no Sea World and like you said basically a swamp.

Four and five lane highways, massive buildings and more businesses than I could even hope to count sitting in a place that was once a pasture/swamp and imagining how it must have looked in 1966. I understand that it is questionable as to whether or not the changes really were for the better, but it certainly was formidable. I admire him for having the ability for one person to have that much influence and direct affect on millions of people.

Because of that, coupled with my opinion, Walt's EPCOT would have killed the entire dream and left him with a colossal failure that he wouldn't have had time to recuperate from, makes me sad. I feel that he died with a massive, happy and huge plan for something that he believed he could make happen instead of spending his final years possibly broke and his legacy destroyed. That makes me not want to speculate about it anymore. I just want to remember the 4 decades of joy, fun and happiness that I experienced because of that same man who left us at the pinnacle of success. Still, thanks to Roy, as far as WDW is concerned, gave so many of us so much joy.

I always try to look at it in a brighter way. Some people automatically think the EPCOT idea would have tanked. We'll never know, all we know is that Walt was a visionary and liked to take some chances. There were several times when certain things saved the company. Snow White's success, I also believe Cinderella was critical to their continued success post-war. This led to Disneyland in 1955. I just believe that if EPCOT wasn't the success he thought it would be that there would be no one better than Walt to have a new idea to replace it. He never quit. Now, what he did need was someone like Roy around who knew the business side better. But let's say in this alternate universe Roy doesn't die in 1971. Surely the toll of overseeing WDW get built for 5 years shortened his life in those years. It had to. With Walt in there I assume there is less stress. Who knows. But Walt Disney even with his faults wouldn't be a guy I'd bet against.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I always try to look at it in a brighter way. Some people automatically think the EPCOT idea would have tanked. We'll never know, all we know is that Walt was a visionary and liked to take some chances. There were several times when certain things saved the company. Snow White's success, I also believe Cinderella was critical to their continued success post-war. This led to Disneyland in 1955. I just believe that if EPCOT wasn't the success he thought it would be that there would be no one better than Walt to have a new idea to replace it. He never quit. Now, what he did need was someone like Roy around who knew the business side better. But let's say in this alternate universe Roy doesn't die in 1971. Surely the toll of overseeing WDW get built for 5 years shortened his life in those years. It had to. With Walt in there I assume there is less stress. Who knows. But Walt Disney even with his faults wouldn't be a guy I'd bet against.

Normally, I wouldn't either, but assuming he had gotten it physically started, way to many things happened that would have stifled the project. In 1966 communication advancement was still with NASA and the military. It wasn't part of the public life. That kicked into gear in the late 70's and that is how the current EPCOT started to even be thought about. His plan was centered around industry being willing to spend a whole lot of money to basically build the city and then to continue to contribute to it in the form of using the place to test and promote new products with new technology.

Just the time it would take to round up the financial backing would have been years and if you look at the plans, just the infrastructure alone would have taken millions of dollars and then building everything else would have put them into the mid to late seventies. And don't forget they had to build MK first to have even a small part of that income to just pay for itself. EPCOT opened in 1982 and by then technology was starting to advance quickly, thus the reason for the theme. Even a project as small as that theme park could not keep up with technology in a practical sense and here we were looking at a whole city which would still have to be supported mostly by outside industry. They couldn't even get enough outside investment in our EPCOT to fill all the plans.

He did manage to find a way to make up to the cost of realizing his dreams, but that was parking meter change compared to what the Experimental Community Of Tomorrow would have cost. The Disney Company was doing well, but it was not the mega-billion dollar company it is now. Also in spite of how cheaply he was able to buy the land that took a large sum of money and I'm sure the company was feeling that as well. So as much I admire his accomplishments, I feel that his dream had many flaws in it, the first and largest being the idea that people would be able to afford the community and be willing to live in a place ruled by a civilian or corporate dictatorship. The second was expecting industry to either give the new technology to those that live there or for the residence to foot that bill. There are other things that even Walt could not control. In many way I am glad for him that he could die thinking that his dream would be fulfilled and not wait around until his dream became a nightmare.

 

[MAGICFLOP]

Better question would be, If Walt died in 2023, what would be different?

 

[Tom P.]

Better question would be, If Walt died in 2023, what would be different?

Bob Iger would be worth a heck of a lot less money.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

Better question would be, If Walt died in 2023, what would be different?

Well, at 98-ish, I'd say he would probably be retired for at least 25 years. Just my opinion though. And there'd be a lot of people who thought he'd been dead for years and surprised he was still alive. I'm sure the "Celebrate 100" plans would probably cease too, and "In Memoriam... 100 Years of Walt" plans would begin.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well, at 98-ish, I'd say he would probably be retired for at least 25 years. Just my opinion though. And there'd be a lot of people who thought he'd been dead for years and surprised he was still alive. I'm sure the "Celebrate 100" plans would probably cease too, and "In Memoriam... 100 Years of Walt" plans would begin.

Wasn't he born in 1900 or 1901? If so, wouldn't that make him122 or 123 years old when he died.. The 100 years celebration is for the Walt Disney Company. Walt's hundredth birthday was celebrated in 2001 or 2002 also known as the year of the big ugly hat in DHS.

 

[Tuvalu]

Well, at 98-ish, I'd say he would probably be retired for at least 25 years. Just my opinion though. And there'd be a lot of people who thought he'd been dead for years and surprised he was still alive. I'm sure the "Celebrate 100" plans would probably cease too, and "In Memoriam... 100 Years of Walt" plans would begin.

Walt was born in 1901. He’d be 121 now.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

Wasn't he born in 1900 or 1901? If so, wouldn't that make him124 or 123 years old when he died.. The 100 years celebration is for the Walt Disney Company. Walt's hundredth birthday was celebrated in 2001 or 2002 also known as the year of the big ugly hat in DHS.

Walt was born in 1901. He’d be 121 now.

You're correct. Total brain f@rt. He passed in '66, and was NOT 41 when he passed. Duh! It actually felt wrong when I posted that, but I wasn't thinking. Thanks for reminding me. So this changes my response.... "Walt... FINALLY dead at 121" headlines would be everywhere. His body would be promptly cryogenically frozen until they discover a cure for old age and death.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

Normally, I wouldn't either, but assuming he had gotten it physically started, way to many things happened that would have stifled the project. In 1966 communication advancement was still with NASA and the military. It wasn't part of the public life. That kicked into gear in the late 70's and that is how the current EPCOT started to even be thought about. His plan was centered around industry being willing to spend a whole lot of money to basically build the city and then to continue to contribute to it in the form of using the place to test and promote new products with new technology.

Just the time it would take to round up the financial backing would have been years and if you look at the plans, just the infrastructure alone would have taken millions of dollars and then building everything else would have put them into the mid to late seventies. And don't forget they had to build MK first to have even a small part of that income to just pay for itself. EPCOT opened in 1982 and by then technology was starting to advance quickly, thus the reason for the theme. Even a project as small as that theme park could not keep up with technology in a practical sense and here we were looking at a whole city which would still have to be supported mostly by outside industry. They couldn't even get enough outside investment in our EPCOT to fill all the plans.

He did manage to find a way to make up to the cost of realizing his dreams, but that was parking meter change compared to what the Experimental Community Of Tomorrow would have cost. The Disney Company was doing well, but it was not the mega-billion dollar company it is now. Also in spite of how cheaply he was able to buy the land that took a large sum of money and I'm sure the company was feeling that as well. So as much I admire his accomplishments, I feel that his dream had many flaws in it, the first and largest being the idea that people would be able to afford the community and be willing to live in a place ruled by a civilian or corporate dictatorship. The second was expecting industry to either give the new technology to those that live there or for the residence to foot that bill. There are other things that even Walt could not control. In many way I am glad for him that he could die thinking that his dream would be fulfilled and not wait around until his dream became a nightmare.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that in 1971 MK is still built under Walt with Roy's help. And as time goes on the idea for EPCOT - Walt's idea - does not come to fruition. I think once things show up in the practical sense that it never gets off the ground. He moves onto another project and can do so much with that land in WDW. Walt was a visionary, he was a man with dreams. Honestly, from 1955 to 1966 I think his idea of things was just getting started with Disneyland. Consider this, Disneyland took a lot of convincing from banks and such to get off the ground. Walt said that bankers don't exactly have an imagination. So even with the success of Disneyland I don't think the version of EPCOT could get off the ground fully. It is at what point that he realizes this that is the key. Of course maybe I am wrong, maybe it is a stunning success. But it just seems like it would have been too big of a dream.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You're correct. Total brain f@rt. He passed in '66, and was NOT 41 when he passed. Duh! It actually felt wrong when I posted that, but I wasn't thinking. Thanks for reminding me. So this changes my response.... "Walt... FINALLY dead at 121" headlines would be everywhere. His body would be promptly cryogenically frozen until they discover a cure for old age and death.

I have my fingers crossed that they come up with that cure and SOON!

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

I am going to go out on a limb and say that in 1971 MK is still built under Walt with Roy's help. And as time goes on the idea for EPCOT - Walt's idea - does not come to fruition. I think once things show up in the practical sense that it never gets off the ground. He moves onto another project and can do so much with that land in WDW. Walt was a visionary, he was a man with dreams. Honestly, from 1955 to 1966 I think his idea of things was just getting started with Disneyland. Consider this, Disneyland took a lot of convincing from banks and such to get off the ground. Walt said that bankers don't exactly have an imagination. So even with the success of Disneyland I don't think the version of EPCOT could get off the ground fully. It is at what point that he realizes this that is the key. Of course maybe I am wrong, maybe it is a stunning success. But it just seems like it would have been too big of a dream.

I'd like to think you'd be correct. If Walt was as stubborn as reported tho, I'm sure he'd have pushed forward. That said, if he did listen to reason, maybe we'd have a better EPCOT theme park than we have now. I love the concept, but I wonder if they'd have "finished it". Now it's an unfinished world fair with IPs encroaching, and a hodge podge of rides with a different themes in a Future World that is a complete mess.

I have my fingers crossed that they come up with that cure and SOON!

I hear ya. You know it's strange. I'm in my upper 40s, but I've actually come to terms with my eventual fate (whenever that should happen) which absolutely no one in history has figured out how to avoid. Some have tried through ceremonies, incantations, mummification, what have you, but none have succeeded. Anyway, after decades of fearing that inevitable end, I think when my number is called I'll be okay with it now. Eternal peace. Although I'm in no rush.