If Walt Disney died in 1986 instead of 1966 how do things change?

[Eric Graham]

I believe it would be so wonderful that if Walt Disney had lived that long. To me, it was such a hardship that he never got to see the true envision of his Walt Disney World opening and coming to fruition for it. Saving Mr. Banks is one of my favorite movies of Disney, btw. Walt Disney was such a visionary of his time.

 

[flynnibus]

Yeah the idea that Walt would have continued linearly I think is the biggest mistake.

We knew he was on the EPCOT line... how long would he stick to that and would he have been able to get the investors and industry buy-in needed? And if he didn't... where would WDW have gone next? Would Walt be involved or would he had pivoted even further away from theme parks? Maybe he goes all Howard Hughes... and Disney is left still with the types of Card Walker.

So to me it's a question of.. what was EPCOT's future? Would the uncertainty period of the 70s for Disney be much different? The same people probably would have been involved.

Would the threats that put the stale Disney at risk in the 80s be the same? I think so. But if you still had Walt in place, HOW they responded would have been different. Maybe it would bring Walt back to the driver in media and that would lead to a much different future of Disney's library.

 

[Smooth]

This California ghost town began with utopian visions

A developer dreamed of transforming California desert into a futuristic dream city—then came the lawsuits.

archive.curbed.com

 

[flynnibus]

This California ghost town began with utopian visions

A developer dreamed of transforming California desert into a futuristic dream city—then came the lawsuits.

archive.curbed.com

Yet, there are thousands of similar stories that went different... including basically many of Florida's major beach cities.

Unfortunately that piece did little to enlighten you why this one failed compared to others.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I agree this would've been Walt's goal... his dream, but the reality would've been far different. Building a city like he wanted, employing the people to do these wonderful things in the name of research, etc. All that would've left him penniless. His wealth wasn't on the scale that would've been required. Estimates have his worth in the $100M-$150M range when he passed. Today that would be short of $1B, or possibly just more than. There's no way he could do this without a massive infusion of big money which would've dictated how and when he could spend that money. That said he'd have hated the whole venture due to not having carte blanche. His utopian city would've died on the vine unrealized, and his parks would likely have been sold off in the loss. Our entertainment world would be very different. He would've needed Musk-type money to even try what he wanted, and even then I think it'd have been tough to realize.

"Cancer cured today"... I'm sorry, but I have no words. I take your point, but scientists have been trying to cure cancer with government funds all over the world, and nearly 60 years later the best we've got is putting a poison in your veins in hopes of killing the cancer before the poison kills you. That, and microwaving you in hopes of shrinking the bad cells. Walt's dreams were massive and mostly wonderful. Realizing those dreams is a much different thing.

I also agree with @Goofyernmost and his comments about a "do as I say type of community". That was absolutely Walt's plan... dictating how people would live in his city. That would've failed on a grand scale. That's CCP kinda stuff. Who would voluntarily want to live in that atmosphere, and those who do aren't the greatest minds in the world to do things like cure cancer.

And on top of that pay to live there and really not own anything. Seriously? That is ego at it's best. Pay them money to control you because there was a Disney name on it. At the time all they were really known for is full length animated movies, a bunch of nice family movies and one theme park. No mention was ever made of more theme parks, just that one modeled after Disneyland. Many seem to not be able to see how small TWDC was at that time. They practically lived paycheck to paycheck (movie to movie). The theme park did well but it hardly supported a venture of that size like the current park setups do now.

 

[Smooth]

Yet, there are thousands of similar stories that went different... including basically many of Florida's major beach cities.

Unfortunately that piece did little to enlighten you why this one failed compared to others.

I just thought it was interesting to the subject of the thread. I made no conclusions one or the other. So, I'm not not sure what I need enlightened on. But I probably do need enlightened on some things. Everybody is ignorant... just on different subjects.

 

[flynnibus]

I just thought it was interesting to the subject of the thread. I made no conclusions one or the other.

TLDR - Not all developer's attempts at land development succeed.

I'm not really sure how it's all that relevant to the topic. The cite isn't anything more than someone trying to turn land speculation into profits via development. There wasn't anything novel about the example.

 

[Smooth]

TLDR - Not all developer's attempts at land development succeed.

I'm not really sure how it's all that relevant to the topic. The cite isn't anything more than someone trying to turn land speculation into profits via development. There wasn't anything novel about the example.

Thank you. I have been enlightened.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

Everybody is ignorant... just on different subjects.

I'm quite ignorant on many subjects. Extremely ignorant on some. I love to enlighten others about my ignorance when asking questions about subjects for which they are voluminously enlightened. I find it enlightening to have such conversations.

 

[networkpro]

Dont forget one little Walt specific thing: He was specifically against unions.

 

[tl77]

Magic Kingdom would be the only park, and even though it's a lot of swamp land, not really suitable for construction, Walt probably would have carried on with the Progress City version of EPCOT, not the EPCOT Center that was built in 1982, and Disney MGM Studios was a Michael Eisner idea that sprung from EPCOT Center, so no MGM either, because there never would have been a need for Eisner in the early 80's if Walt was still alive.

Magic Kingdom would have been a lot different, more like the 1968 concept model I would think. So Thunder Mesa instead of Big Thunder Mountain, Splash Mountain and Pirates of the Caribbean, and maybe the Asian Resort gets built instead of Grand Floridian? Roy was the money man, without him who knows what would have actually got done. Roy counter balanced Walt's ideas the same way Frank Wells balanced Michael Eisner, so if Roy dies first I think it'd be a problem, but would you have the "bad times" of the 1970's and 80's? George Lucas took the concept for Star Wars to Disney, I've always felt Walt would have seen the potential of that and maybe it's a Disney movie from day one, and would Walt have fired John Lassiter? Would there have been a Pixar which grew out of Lucas' Industrial Light and Magic?

Really interesting question you've posted here

 

[KaliSplash]

So he lives until 1986 and is still working on projects up until his death. Same thing happens with Roy, he dies in 1971 still, two months after Disney World opens. But Walt hangs around and works on the company 15 years after this. What happens with Epcot? How vastly different would it be and would it have been more successful? Or less? Is there a chance there is California Adventure sooner than 2001? Is there the foundation for DHS to be built in 1989? And how does the core of the parks change, if any?

Bottom line, are things better?

My personal opinion that when it comes to innovation and imagination it definitely is. When you think of the non-IP attractions at Disney they mostly came from the mind of Walt Disney. In 1964 with the World's Fair he did not look like he was slowing down and brought in three different attractions to the parks that had nothing to do with his movies (Mr. Lincoln, Small World, Carousel of Progress). I would suggest we would see more of this sort of thing. From a business side of things I know how much more money the company would make as that was never his motivation, but I think he would have a lot left in the tank for 20 years to play with.

He didn't

 

[Robbiem]

Walt Disney world would be just Disney World. It would be very different with monorail / wedway transport across the area as per the epcot film. Magic Kingdom would be very different, maybe with resorts integrated into the park and different attractions to Disneyland. It would be the only park probably but there would be other attractions on property Walt would have done some form of progress city maybe not exactly like the model but perhaps more like celebration with tech and some form of visitor element like a supersized communicore or worlds fair type area. Maybe the airport is built

Mineral King would have happened and Disney may have looked to develop non park resorts maybe something like Alulani happens or the cruise line. Disney would continue to develop worlds fair attractions and bring them back to epcot and the parks.

The studio could have had more hits with Walt guiding development more and maybe something like winnie the pooh would have been an even bigger hit. Live action its hard to say but you could see ET or star wars maybe as Disney movies. I don’t see touchstone or adult movies but could see Disney channel launching. Computer animation could have been earlier with walt seeing the potential

Tokyo probably wouldn’t have happened as it did, although walt may have had to use Japanese tech in the 70s and convinced Japanese corps to invest in epcot in return for a Japanese park, or even a Japanese city development.

EuroDisney would probably have been built near London (Walt was a big anglophone). It would probably smaller but maybe more successful, maybe not.

Cal arts would develop and have a much stronger link to Disney but disney stays a minor player in movies.

Ron Miller is groomed more and mentored by Walt taking over the company when he retires

 

[Walt Disney1955]

I think people have it wrong when they say Walt may have gotten bored and moved onto other projects outside of the Disney company. Think about it, it isn't named Johnsonland or Wally Johnson World. It is Disney in the name. Do people think something with his own name on there would just be an afterthought for him? I think he would want to uphold the Disney name for as long as he could. No one would have been better at doing this than him. Not to mention while he would be long gone by now I would think he would have gotten a handle on park prices and kept them affordable.

 

[flynnibus]

I think people have it wrong when they say Walt may have gotten bored and moved onto other projects outside of the Disney company. Think about it, it isn't named Johnsonland or Wally Johnson World. It is Disney in the name. Do people think something with his own name on there would just be an afterthought for him?

You could say that about any of his creations…. Yet he demonstrated time and time again a willingness to let go to chase his next interest.

People think he might hand off and move on… because that is exactly ehat he did time and time again

 

[BuddyThomas]

I mean, he was 65 when he died, which is close to retirement age. Even if he lived another 20 years, who knows how active he would have been in the first place?

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

I mean, he was 65 when he died, which is close to retirement age. Even if he lived another 20 years, who knows how active he would have been in the first place?

EXACTLY! I was thinking about this too. WDW opened in '71. He'd have been 70 (give or take) upon opening of the MK assuming it would've been on the same timeline. Obviously the timing of MK opening could've been altered for better or worse if Walt was involved. While he was a driven person, I'm pretty sure by the age of 70 he'd have come to terms with his mortality and would've wanted to step back and perhaps enjoy the good things in life that he had earned for himself. 5 years is a long time in terms of a project. I'm pretty sure while he'd have wanted to see the Florida Project realized, when he got a lot of push back for his ideas of EPCOT, he might've taken a step back. I doubt he'd have wanted to fight for it for the next 5 to 10 years at that age. That kind of fight takes a toll, and at 75 or 80, there aren't many people that don't want to enjoy the time they have left. That's the whole point of retirement after all.

I understand that's all speculative, and against what Walt was known for. He was a driven person, but he also was known to easily lose interest in things and move on to the next. At that age, perhaps "the next" would've been to enjoy life. Maybe not.

 

[Tom P.]

Walt without Roy would have been, IMHO, a recipe for disaster. I'm not saying that Walt was ignorant when it came to the business side of things, but it was definitely Roy who kept the business on track. Much like things fell apart in the Eisner era when Wells was gone, I think the same would have happened to Walt if Roy was gone.

Walt was definitely a creative genius. I don't think anyone argues that. There's certainly no question that he could have continued to develop better ideas for the parks than what we, in many cases, have today. But he also had many ideas that would not work and needed to be reined in by Roy. For example, he originally didn't want a traditional Disneyland-style theme park in Florida. He wanted it to be all about Epcot. He was convinced to do Magic Kingdom by Roy. I also think Walt's original ideas for Epcot were doomed to failure.

So, as with most things, it would have likely been a mixed bag.

 

[flynnibus]

I mean, he was 65 when he died, which is close to retirement age. Even if he lived another 20 years, who knows how active he would have been in the first place?

Look at his brother?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Look at his brother?

Yes, but that might have been what pushed Roy to his death. It was only a few months after the park opened that he died. Speaking as someone in his 70's it takes a lot less to tire you out at that age.