flynnibus
Premium Member
No, because unused reserversations aren't re-distributed. It just means a shorter wait for other people...
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If this is not a blantant money grab, I don't know what is.....
- Thread starter NickMaio
- Start date
JMcMahonEsq
Well-Known Member
I have heard some people complain about HS and/or DAK, but honestly never that they ran out of things to do, as opposed to running out of things they wanted to do.You never heard the “half day park” arguments about mgm and dak?
We can… it’s called Disneyland vs WDW. Consider something like the matternhorn vs space mountain… or btmrr. The difference in how they manage the queue and how they turned a burden… into something that actually enhances the ride.
Or other retrofit examples expose the value too… go look at an attraction like BTTF the ride…. And take away the video from the queue. You lose so much setup. Or imagine how different you would look at the Yeti and set pieces in Everest if you didn’t have the references from the queue.
Today when you line skip we just accept those losses as ok because we are skipping the line… but you already know whats in the queue. Imagine being a guest who didn’t… and think how the ride experience differs.
The wait has become part of the experience… and build up for an attraction. I mean just look at Rise and how they blurred those concepts even further.
I have seen some people complain they don't like Star Wars, so they totally ignore GE. Or even someone like myself who doesn't like thrill rides, I am electing to skip TT, RRC, and SDD. That has nothing to do with the park not having enough content, or being a half day park. It means some of the offerings there aren't for me. It's not incumbent on Disney to have enough offerings such that everyone, of every taste, deciding what they want to skip out on, has enough left over content that appeals just to them, that takes them a full day to experience it. And to be pefrectly honest if like at HS only half the rides appeal to me, i would much rather be done with those rides in half a day, and be able to go back to the pool, drink, or park hop, that waste a full day at the park, riding the same rides, but spending time standing around in a line doing nothing.
As to Disnelyand vs. WDW, you can't consider that. WDW built in the 70's was in no way constructed/designed with the idea of VQ, or hell any online type of app system such that infrastructure of a ride, and line concept design took it into account. As to what people miss/don't miss I think you are looking at it way too subjectively from an older approach. Having brought my younger kids to WDW all since the era of line skips, FP and/or Genie+ I can tell you there is not much at all lacking from the experience of rides. Other than maybe (and i think it's a stretch given how long the wait can be) of the que for Peter Pan's flight, no one is trading the time to wait in a line, just to be able to say you saw a bit of back story.
Not going to lie I can't figure out what BTTF is. the only videos from a que i can think of is Dinosaur, and maybe FoP. I think both add to the ride, but both are also part of the Pre-ride show that you're going to experience if you do a line skip or not. Just like Rise i love the pre-ride type features of it, it does make it more of an experience, although i don't think that's something that works for every ride. However, I also don't think skipping the walking through the zig zag normal line detracts from the ride. In any ride I can think of that has a pre-show feature, your line skipping either from FP or VQ takes you to that part of the experience. You're not missing out on the set up, you're missing the monotony of standing around waiting to get to the show.
JMcMahonEsq
Well-Known Member
on an isolated basis I can see it being done, though I still don't think its idea. I was speaking more as a general rule, that you can't operate all rides in a park in that matter.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
As general rule that's how it's done at all parks.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
as a general rule, this is exactly how Disney parks have always operated, it’s only on rare, isolated instances that it has ever been different.
Raineman
Well-Known Member
Most attractions don't have a 4 hour wait time, so most standby wait times are a viable choice for most people. And not offering choice to customers is one of the stupidest moves a business could make. And I seriously doubt that using a VQ for all attractions at WDW would allow people to ride more in a day, unless you have some data that proves otherwise. Look how quickly VQs fill up now-imagine waking up at 7:30 am, and the VQs for almost every attraction throughout the day are gone. Do you think that's a good way to run a business? Excluding people completely from even having the opportunity to ride what they want? I really don't think you've thought this through.
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
It’s something everyone buys, but everyone hates buying it. And the extra price tag adds incentive for people to maximize the usage of the system (and maximize their stress levels).
Functionally, the system works as well as FastPass ever has. If it were just included with the already expensive ticket price, most of the headaches would be removed. Sure, everyone would have access to it…but like we’ve stated, almost everyone buys it now. People would be fine with just getting one or two per day. Not like today where people feel like they have to get 8 digital passes to get their money’s worth. But Disney doesn’t care.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I agree…except fastpass 1.0 was way better because of how it was designed and the rigid nature of it.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
7:30?
Every morning drop seems to be 7:00:03…and that’s with light crowds
Something is seriously wrong with how it’s structured
I loved the BTTF ride and que - - -
ON the monitors above, before you got into the holding room, it played out more of the backstory of the ride.
If you jumped right into the holding room you would miss it.
BTTF I miss almost as much as Horizons!!!
Loved those two so much.
ON the monitors above, before you got into the holding room, it played out more of the backstory of the ride.
If you jumped right into the holding room you would miss it.
BTTF I miss almost as much as Horizons!!!
Loved those two so much.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
…drawing a blank on this one?
Agreed - - - -
Nothing is stopping someone from grabbing a VQ at 7:30 - - - - in case they "might" go to the park, and not actually go.
So strange what they are doing?
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
Got it - -
Check it out - - - -
Still gives me shivers - - - - - - man I want a time machine
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Got it - -
Check it out - - - -
Still gives me shivers - - - - - - man I want a time machine
Oh ok…
Officially I hated that ride rough and uncomfortable
Hopefully they redo that area and knock it down
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
Got it - -
Check it out - - - -
Still gives me shivers - - - - - - man I want a time machine
Universal getting rid of Back to the Future was almost as stupid of a move as Disney getting rid of Splash Mountain. Universal’s whole schtick (even now) is “ride the movies” and I struggle to think of a film they own that is more iconic than BTTF.
Skibum1970
Well-Known Member
I think that they were just trying to capitalize on a hot property without having to do any major investments. It wasn't a great move because BTTF was still popular and is even now. I think a new ride for the Simpsons would have been a better idea but who's to say?
The Simpsons took over a long time ago.
TalkToEthan
Well-Known Member
flynnibus
Premium Member
Then I humbly suggest you haven't had enough exposure to those people who have visited when crowds are so low.. you still find people that end up leaving the park before they tire out or the park closes simply because they have exhausted everything they want to do.
This is a problem for park designers - they need to keep people entertained, but they don't want to overspend on capacity that isn't well utilized. When you take waits out of attractions, you essentially drive up your minimum number of experiences your park needs to keep guests entertained and occupied.
Stop thinking on a individual basis and look at it from a demographic standpoint.. and you will see yes, the park operators do want to ensure as many of their target audience ARE fully satisified, even if the desires of the different demographics vary. It's why you still have stage shows, or low intensity things, along side thrill rides. There is more than one persona/demographic in the customer base and the operators are trying to find a balance for the customer makeup they are targeting.
We can - because the fundamental issue being addressed (attraction design and wait management) are the things that are relevant here. Disneyland rides were not built to accomodate 90min waits. They didn't need to, they didn't have that kind of customer load in the 50s and 60s. When they built WDW and EPCOT, they were building for those higher crowd loads, and knew they needed not just space, but they needed to keep guests from fixating on how much it sucked to be in a 90min line. As crowd management became even more of an issue in the 80s.. they took concepts further.
The point about Disneyland is to show how a very similar attraction... is designed differently when they build an attraction KNOWING guests are going to have an extended period before boarding the attraction. The queues are not just pretty waiting rooms - they become part of the experience. Contrast the atmosphere and build up of the spanish fort for POTC in MK vs the staircase and basically one scene for POTC in DL.
My point with all of this is... the queues.. and the waits... are not just jail time for guests. It's part of the experience attractions are BUILT for now... and when you try to eliminate the waits its far bigger shift in how the parks are designed and operated than just someone enjoying not being in a line.
Using that logic.. we should just get rid of theming and details too...
Just because guests may not explicitly recognize the benefit or value of something doesn't mean it's not there or important. I mean this is the very premise Walt built his success on. It's not about just doing what your customer THINKS they want.. it's about knowing what gets your customer to where you want them to be.. The customer probably doesn't know that an aurohma is why they feel something different here.. or why those colors matter...
Customer awareness doesn't really define the need.
Sorry you weren't there to experience the evolution of queue management in the 80s and 90s to see how this has evolved, especially in the post EPCOT era. In the late 80s, both UNI and Disney started bringing a lot more of the ride setup and key points into the queue. An example of this in Disney at the time was the backstage tour.. and the video monitors that used to be relied upon heavily before the special effects stage.
Again, your examples of Dinosaur are because you are looking at things post merge (again, a concept driven by the integration of the safety spiel into the video pre-show).
Everest. Star Tours. JIIY. Great Movie Ride. The Seas.
lesser impacts
tiki room
Mission:Space
Dinosaur
As just some examples...
Don't confuse "its still a good ride, even without the queue" with "the queue doesn't add to the ride experience"