"I don't think the imagination pavilion works anymore." - Tony Baxter

[ParentsOf4]

I am sure Doris Kearns Goodwin helped substantially. Interestingly enough the current Hall of Presidents had the same Show Writer who did the abysmal Spaceship Earth 2007 script. I strongly suspect that the quality of the script was due to Doris Kearns Goodwin being the consultant and thankfully too, though I really think giving Andrew Jackson as much coverage in the current show as he gets is troubling considering his actions in office.

Yes, I can't believe Andrew Jackson was the only U.S. President to pay off the national debt. He vehemently opposed political appointments and strongly advocated for the elimination of the Electoral College. What a despot.

The deplorable treatment of Native Americans was widely supported by Congress and the Supreme Court, as well as being widely accepted by the general public. On this matter, I suggest you judge the man by the values of his time. Considering the unpopularity of Slavery by a large percentage of the population even at the founding of the United States and the number of U.S. Presidents that owned slaves, Jackson stands up rather well and it is not unreasonable that he is featured in the Hall of Presidents.

 

[HMF]

Yes, I can't believe Andrew Jackson was the only U.S. President to pay off the national debt. He vehemently opposed political appointments and strongly advocated for the elimination of the Electoral College. What a despot.

The deplorable treatment of Native Americans was widely supported by Congress and the Supreme Court, as well as being widely accepted by the general public.

Does that justify it?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Does that justify it?

No, but it probably puts it more into perspective. I swear that I don't understand how we, as intelligent people, cannot stop making judgments about the past based on what is a current thought. In the past, although we can now clearly see it was wrong, things were different, beliefs were different and values were different. Remember that 100 years from now, someone is going to be saying what a bunch of fools we were based on what we currently believe to be right. Times change, people change, it's that simple.

 

[TalkingHead]

I am sure Doris Kearns Goodwin helped substantially. Interestingly enough the current Hall of Presidents had the same Show Writer who did the abysmal Spaceship Earth 2007 script. I strongly suspect that the quality of the script was due to Doris Kearns Goodwin being the consultant and thankfully too, though I really think giving Andrew Jackson as much coverage in the current show as he gets is troubling considering his actions in office.

Surprised me, too. Of course there was no reference to the First Seminole War, which Jackson led. Would've been apropos since the show's in Florida.

 

[Magenta Panther]

Yes, I can't believe Andrew Jackson was the only U.S. President to pay off the national debt. He vehemently opposed political appointments and strongly advocated for the elimination of the Electoral College. What a despot.

Sounds like my kind of President!

 

[Disneyfan_76]

Remember that 100 years from now, someone is going to be saying what a bunch of fools we were based on what we currently believe to be right.

I must be ahead of the curve because I have no problem telling people right now what a bunch of fools they are...

 

[Axle1986]

SO HOW ABOUT THAT IMAGINATION PAVILION HUH!?

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

And I dont like the dance routines

 

[Goofyernmost]

SO HOW ABOUT THAT IMAGINATION PAVILION HUH!?

Personally, I can't imagine it being anything different. Apparently, no one else can either.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I am sure Doris Kearns Goodwin helped substantially. Interestingly enough the current Hall of Presidents had the same Show Writer who did the abysmal Spaceship Earth 2007 script. I strongly suspect that the quality of the script was due to Doris Kearns Goodwin being the consultant and thankfully too, though I really think giving Andrew Jackson as much coverage in the current show as he gets is troubling considering his actions in office.

I was unaware Doris Kearns Goodwin was involved, thanks for the information.

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

Valerie ... Edwards, I think.

Tim Delaney-Valerie Edwards Dismissal Thread

Eric is in charge because he's been there a long time and plays the political game well and had an advocate in Tom Fitzgerald.

And there it is in a nutshell. When Rasulo ran P&R a few years back, an unholy alliance was formed with Fitz and Jacobson. All three individuals were fairly tight, socialized together, and basically created a vision for WDI and the parks which didn't include the old timers (pre-EPCOT hiring) like Baxter and Delaney. This Imagineering cabal of sorts wanted full control of Glendale and viewed Baxter and Delaney as roadblocks to that goal. And everyone on Flower Street was aware of this.

If there's bad blood between Baxter and Jacobson, this is why.

 

[articos]

You may be right, but whatever ideas that have been flowing out of imagineering, one of two things have happened. Either they haven't been good enough to be noticed or they haven't had the ability to sell it. Either way what we get is what we have. Budget will be used as a reason but as seen by other things that happen in Disney, if you have a plan and can sell it, cost really isn't a factor. I'm sure that even if they decided to put the Imagination Pavilion back to its original condition the cost would be a mere fraction of what FLE is costing.

A little of column a, a little of column b, and a lot of column c, which is more the fact there are so many cogs that now get involved in greenlighting an attraction project (or a resort project in general) unless it's generated from the top, usually as part of planning, it's difficult to get all the sign-offs and make sure the budget allocation is available. Just too many areas where things can be derailed or put on hold. There are great ideas generated every day, but do you want to put your career on the line pushing something through, or do you want to live another day to continue working on other projects? Just a fact of working for a conglomerate.

RE: Imagination, it would be quite a bit less than NFL, of course, but still not an insignificant amount. There's a large amount of fabrication that would need to be done. Suffice it to say there will be a new Imagination of some sort in the coming years, probably sooner than later.

 

[Goofyernmost]

A little of column a, a little of column b, and a lot of column c, which is more the fact there are so many cogs that now get involved in greenlighting an attraction project (or a resort project in general) unless it's generated from the top, usually as part of planning,, it's difficult to get all the sign-offs and make sure the budget allocation is available. Just too many areas where things can be derailed or put on hold. There are great ideas generated every day, but do you want to put your career on the line pushing something through, or do you want to live another day to continue working on other projects? Just a fact of working for a conglomerate.

Fact of the business world in general. Disney doesn't hold a patent on that one.

 

[donaldtoo]

Plain and simple, the soul of the TWDC is long gone.
I've read enough about Walt to come to the conclusion that he was never about making money for moneys sake.
He was about making money to make a better product/experience for his Guests.
That certainly does not seem to be the business model these days, nor has it been, for quite some time.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Plain and simple, the soul of the TWDC is long gone.
I've read enough about Walt to come to the conclusion that he was never about making money for moneys sake.
He was about making money to make a better product/experience for his Guests.
That certainly does not seem to be the business model these days, nor has it been, for quite some time.

Sure but did you read the part about how it was HIS money that he was doing that with. Only occasionally did he have to cater to outside investment. Even when he went public he held over 51% of the stock and was still completely in charge. Big, big difference. Back then the Disney Company was his personal playground. He had a gift for being in tune with what people wanted and so when he did something usually it reaped profits. It didn't always and at many points he was very close to bankruptcy, but again it was his money so the only one he had to answer to was a guy named Walt Disney. Of course, he probably got a lot of "told you so" looks from Roy!

 

[donaldtoo]

Sure but did you read the part about how it was HIS money that he was doing that with. Only occasionally did he have to cater to outside investment. Even when he went public he held over 51% of the stock and was still completely in charge. Big, big difference. Back then the Disney Company was his personal playground. He had a gift for being in tune with what people wanted and so when he did something usually it reaped profits. It didn't always and at many points he was very close to bankruptcy, but again it was his money so the only one he had to answer to was a guy named Walt Disney. Of course, he probably got a lot of "told you so" looks from Roy!

Yep, got all that too out of everything I've read. Walt was the dreamer and Roy was the banker, and I'm fully aware of his financial stake.
But, I'm still referring to the SOUL of why it was all started in the first place.
As I've posted before (on this thread, I think?), TWDC has far too many irons in the fire and can't seem to keep up with the basics anymore and now it is far more overextended than it ever has been. It all just seems to be one giant, discombobulated mess without any true focus anymore...other than ONLY the bottom line, and although I know that's what everything is all about these days, it doesn't make it any less sad.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Yep, got all that too out of everything I've read. Walt was the dreamer and Roy was the banker, and I'm fully aware of his financial stake.
But, I'm still referring to the SOUL of why it was all started in the first place.
As I've posted before (on this thread, I think?), TWDC has far too many irons in the fire and can't seem to keep up with the basics anymore and now it is far more overextended than it ever has been. It all just seems to be one giant, discombobulated mess without any true focus anymore...other than ONLY the bottom line, and although I know that's what everything is all about these days, it doesn't make it any less sad.

Agreed!

 

[articos]

Fact of the business world in general. Disney doesn't hold a patent on that one.

Eddie Sotto wrote a post just this morning that deals with the realities of getting things done in the parks (read: budget allocation). Everything he says is just as true these days as it was then.

 

[donaldtoo]

Please provide a link to this post (and I don't mean this in any kinda' smart*** way), 'cause I find it hard to believe that it was just as hard in Walt's day to get things moving at TWDC as it is today.

 

[EpcoTim]

Eddie Sotto was about 8 years old when Walt died.