How will Universal's Epic Universe effect Disney?

celluloid

Well-Known Member
In 2010 when Harry Potter opened up it was supposed to be the end of the attendance dominance at WDW. It didn't. Now, eventually you figure that Universal will really narrow this gap, and this could be it, but we have heard it for a while. Volcano Bay was supposed to be the thing too. I just think it is great that there is a place that tries to outdo Disney. Because Universal is a sight to see and it seems to get better.

It changed the guest spending ratios. Which is the biggest want. Attendance is slow growing and guest spending is more immediate. Notice the amount of hotels and variety that have gone up since then. A water park was built,. Then more hotels in the works. Guests are spending time all or mostly at Universal, and not giving Disney as many days, and mom and dad are not spending as much on their kids at Disney because they want their merch budget for Universal too. More of it than ever. Three Days at Universal is what many will spend now, so why stay in the Disney Bubble we are just going there for a day at Magic Kingdom anyway? Let's shift our stay to a hotel that gives us more perks and convenience for our time we are going to spend more at? This has happened a lot. This is why International Drive ancillary business of tourist traps took off well but 192 has died even further. Where people are staying has clearly shifted in the last ten years.

The attendance has shifted more recently, as reputation of one brand increases and the other has fallen a bit.

Even with Star Wars, Universal had property beat DIsney.
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
To experience all Potter:
Diagon--> Hog Express-->Hogmeade;
then Lost Continent, Dr Sues, Port of Entry, City Walk, parking lot for bus or personal car, public street travel, parking lot again, Epic Adv. park scan in, Train a Dragon and finally Potter again.

Terrible plan

There won't be as much Public Street Travel between resort properties as you think.

Its a much shorter distance than most WDW resort travel.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
To experience all Potter:
Diagon--> Hog Express-->Hogmeade;
then Lost Continent, Dr Sues, Port of Entry, City Walk, parking lot for bus or personal car, public street travel, parking lot again, Epic Adv. park scan in, Train a Dragon and finally Potter again.

Terrible plan
Gotta stop with this “experience” nonsense and use the adult words.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
In 2010 when Harry Potter opened up it was supposed to be the end of the attendance dominance at WDW. It didn't. Now, eventually you figure that Universal will really narrow this gap, and this could be it, but we have heard it for a while. Volcano Bay was supposed to be the thing too. I just think it is great that there is a place that tries to outdo Disney. Because Universal is a sight to see and it seems to get better.
Nobody said potter would “end” anything…at least those thinking with a Brain…

What it had potential to do was change the game and make Disney less dominant. By a degree.

It has done that…more than I thought.

In practical terms - if forced Disney to improve DAK some and put a couple of additions into EPCOT. Studios is still woefully under-equipped for crowds now as it was then.

When epic opens, Comcast will have better park and resort capability now than they did in 2010 based on scale…Disney will not and has already committed to doing zero to change that until at least 2030 as it stands.

“You are the magic”
 

TalkToEthan

Well-Known Member
Its a much shorter distance than most WDW resort travel.

What does that have to do with Universal breaking up the total Potter experience to pass through 5 or 6 lands, City Walk, 2 parking lots and a bus or car drive?



Universal should expand Potter at Diagon to keep the experience continuous and seamless
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
What does that have to do with Universal breaking up the total Potter experience to pass through 5 or 6 lands, City Walk, 2 parking lots and a bus or car drive?



Universal should expand Potter at Diagon to keep the experience continuous and seamless
You mean combine two parks into one?
…I think I might see the accounting problem there🤓
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
What does that have to do with Universal breaking up the total Potter experience to pass through 5 or 6 lands, City Walk, 2 parking lots and a bus or car drive?



Universal should expand Potter at Diagon to keep the experience continuous and seamless

Your explanation of it of it to make it sound as if it would be worse than it is and that it is not done elsewhere for decades. You are framing as if the people are ONLY going to experience Potter. Even Harry Potter fanatics experience other things while they are there. Anyone who is just going to do a potter day between three theme parks is an extreme minority. They want you enjoying all of Universal, That is business and future business.

To experience all of Little Mermaid at WDW . You will have to take a Monorail or Ferry from the TTC to ride the one ride, then sit through Philharmagic, which has it surrounded by a bunch of other characters and have to wait until the other segments are over to leave, than back to the TTC by Monorail or Ferry. Then take your car to another parking lot over at Hollywood Studios to find that show closed, but wait for a meet and greet of the live action version, than realize the show is closed as you get a picture of the garden decor that is still in front of the building. From a theme park design environment perspective, it would be more jarring to travel to a different time in the same world than starting over from the entrance of a new park. This land is going to have a different timeline. It would not be seamless if you jump that much of time and place anyway.

See how bad it sounds if a person is only interested ine ONE property and wants to spend all day at different parks just doin that?

You can do the same thing for Frozen with EPCOT and DHS hopping as well.

Does seeing Mickey's Philarmagic and then having to go over to ride Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway, see his cameo face in Waldo's Disguise at Muppets and then to the 1930s Chinese Theater for really bother you before you wait for Fantasmic? Nothing seamless about tht at all either.


The major theme parks have had properties spread between between them in different aspects for decades now.



And I am done talking with you Ethan because of this nonsense "2 parking lots and a bus or car drive?" If you are taking the bus, you will not be walking past that rotunda further into the parking garage. Nor would you need both parking lots if you take the bus, it will bring you right to the front.

If people can handle the TTC to MK or walking all of EPCOT's lengthy World Showcase just to get to the attraction they want or back to their hotel,

Than it is nothing different or asking more. Even less as they get an entire new park Resort complex as big as the original out of the deal.
 
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JusticeDisney

Well-Known Member
In 2010 when Harry Potter opened up it was supposed to be the end of the attendance dominance at WDW. It didn't. Now, eventually you figure that Universal will really narrow this gap, and this could be it, but we have heard it for a while. Volcano Bay was supposed to be the thing too. I just think it is great that there is a place that tries to outdo Disney. Because Universal is a sight to see and it seems to get better.
Totally agree. People have been claiming that Universal is going to over take WDW for years. Simply never going to happen. Personally speaking, we love Universal and almost always make it a part of our trip. And Universal definitely does certain things better than WDW. All in all, though, WDW has been, is and always will be king - at least when the metric is attendance.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Totally agree. People have been claiming that Universal is going to over take WDW for years. Simply never going to happen. Personally speaking, we love Universal and almost always make it a part of our trip. And Universal definitely does certain things better than WDW. All in all, though, WDW has been, is and always will be king - at least when the metric is attendance.
Except that wasn’t the consensus narrative…it just fits your fandom.

If you reframe it in “degrees”…not “absolutes”…it’s more of a legitimate debate.

Uni wasn’t going to erase a 35 year development lead on Disney. Wed bought the entire sleepy swamp for Pennies in 1965 and it was a loaded tourist Mecca by the 80’s when uni was built.

“Erase” was silly.

Who has done better since the potter announcement? I’ll meet you outside the vacant “galactic starcruiser” on July 4th and we’ll discuss it 👍🏻
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
Totally agree. People have been claiming that Universal is going to over take WDW for years. Simply never going to happen. Personally speaking, we love Universal and almost always make it a part of our trip. And Universal definitely does certain things better than WDW. All in all, though, WDW has been, is and always will be king - at least when the metric is attendance.

But unless you really care about attendance numbers and that gives one a seretonin high at the end of the day it will not matter.

Eventually, if the other place gets more of most people's time and money per capita and is growing.

Rememebr everoyne, It already happened. So unless you just say as long as MK is number 1, it does not matter.



2021 Attendnance from Themed Entertainment Association.
Universal Studios Florida (8.99 million)
Universal’s Islands of Adventure (9.1 million)
Animal Kingdom (7.2 million),
EPCOT (7.7 million)
 

JusticeDisney

Well-Known Member
Except that wasn’t the consensus narrative…it just fits your fandom.

If you reframe it in “degrees”…not “absolutes”…it’s more of a legitimate debate.

Uni wasn’t going to erase a 35 year development lead on Disney. Wed bought the entire sleepy swamp for Pennies in 1965 and it was a loaded tourist Mecca by the 80’s when uni was built.

“Erase” was silly.

Who has done better since the potter announcement? I’ll meet you outside the vacant “galactic starcruiser” on July 4th abs we’ll discuss it 👍🏻
I don’t have any fandom one way or another. I do, however, live in the real world. I will meet you anywhere you want as soon as Uni overtakes WDW in attendance. So sad that we will never actually meet.
 
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JusticeDisney

Well-Known Member
But unless you really care about attendance numbers and that gives one a seretonin high at the end of the day it will not matter.

Eventually, if the other place gets more of most people's time and money per capita and is growing.

Rememebr everoyne, It already happened. So unless you just say as long as MK is number 1, it does not matter.



2021 Attendnance from Themed Entertainment Association.
Universal Studios Florida (8.99 million)
Universal’s Islands of Adventure (9.1 million)
Animal Kingdom (7.2 million),
EPCOT (7.7 million)
Sorry, but citing to those numbers is a fallacy, what with COVID and attendance restrictions, etc. Don’t get me wrong, Uni has definitely made up ground on WDW, and likely will continue to do so with Epic, but they will never overtake WDW in sheer attendance numbers.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but citing to those numbers is a fallacy, what with COVID and attendance restrictions, etc. Don’t get me wrong, Uni has definitely made up ground on WDW, and likely will continue to do so with Epic, but they will never overtake WDW in sheer attendance numbers.
They probably won't in sheer attendance numbers but I see it being much closer then its been. IMO why Disney will be top dog is that they are better for those with little kids.
 

Wilbret

Well-Known Member
Universal is great and I love their parks and EPIC is gonna be, well EPIC, but Universal resorts do not have enough beds to put a dent in Disney’s business.

Even if someone stays at a WDW resort and goes to Universal parks and never sets foot in a WDW park, Disney wins.
Hotels are easy to build. My oldest kid and I stayed at Endless Summer for HHN for $149, and the room and resort were amazing. Bus to the resort worked like magic.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but citing to those numbers is a fallacy, what with COVID and attendance restrictions, etc. Don’t get me wrong, Uni has definitely made up ground on WDW, and likely will continue to do so with Epic, but they will never overtake WDW in sheer attendance numbers.


This would only make sense if Disney's Covid attendance caps for EPCOT and Animal Kingdom were less in numbers than Universal's attendance.

Guess what? They were not.

Universal's two theme parks in operation in Florida out attended three of Disney's theme parks.

What fallacy?
 

JusticeDisney

Well-Known Member
This would only make sense if Disney's Covid attendance caps for EPCOT and Animal Kingdom were less in numbers than Universal's attendance.

Guess what? They were not.

Universal's two theme parks in operation in Florida out attended three of Disney's theme parks.

What fallacy?
The fallacy is the world was upside down during that entire year. It was so out of the norm that you cannot base any conclusions on that year. Attendance caps are just one of many factors which make that year a non-starter in this debate. And by the way, I’m not saying that universal isn’t making serious gains, because I think that they are. I’m just saying that basing anything on that year is a mistake.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
The fallacy is the world was upside down during that entire year. It was so out of the norm that you cannot base any conclusions on that year. Attendance caps are just one of many factors which make that year a non-starter in this debate. And by the way, I’m not saying that universal isn’t making serious gains, because I think that they are. I’m just saying that basing anything on that year is a mistake.
Just to be clear, this is 2021's report released in 2022. I don't want anyone thinking it was from 2020.
No one is basing that year on anything other than that year.
There is no mistake.
You considering that year a fluke is fine.
It does not change the fact that Universal's Two Parks in Florida had higher attendance than three of Disney's for 2021. By October this year, when the next TEA report is released we will have a good idea if the trend is similar.
 

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