How will Universal's Epic Universe effect Disney?

[JusticeDisney]

Just to be clear, this is 2021's report released in 2022. I don't want anyone thinking it was from 2020.
No one is basing that year on anything other than that year.
There is no mistake.
You considering that year a fluke is fine.
It does not change the fact that Universal's Two Parks in Florida had higher attendance than three of Disney's.

Oh, I know what year we are talking about. And you are right in that, during that one year, two of Universal’s parks out attended three of Disney’s parks. What I am saying, is that it is a mistake to base any overall conclusion on that one year, given the state of the world during that year. It probably also bears mentioning that neither Disney nor Universal necessarily care about the numbers at any particular park. Rather, what they are concerned with is the overall total number of visitors, across all of their respective parks. And in that regard, Universal is not even close to Disney, even during 2021.

 

[celluloid]

Oh, I know what year we are talking about. And you are right in that, during that one year, two of Universal’s parks out attended three of Disney’s parks. What I am saying, is that it is a mistake to base any overall conclusion on that one year, given the state of the world during that year. It probably also bears mentioning that neither Disney nor Universal necessarily care about the numbers at any particular park. Rather, what they are concerned with is the overall total number of visitors, across all of their respective parks. And in that regard, Universal is not even close to Disney, even during 2021.

Actually, what they care about is growth vs falling trends.


Which in the FL theme park market, Universal has increased in all areas thanks to investments.


Universal's attendance and guest spending trends have both been up. This has been going on pre.oandemic, hence the right time to go and expand the resort with another park and more resort facilities.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Actually, what they care about is growth vs falling trends.


Which in the FL theme park market, Universal has increased in all areas thanks to investments.


Universal's attendance and guest spending trends have both been up. This has been going on pre.oandemic, hence the right time to go and expand the resort with another park and more resort facilities.

All true. And none of which can be measured on an upside down world year like 2021. Which was the only point I was making.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don’t have any fandom one way or another. I do, however, live in the real world. I will meet you anywhere you want as soon as Uni overtakes WDW in attendance. So sad that we will never actually meet.

So sad that you’re proposing something that isn’t actually possible…and I covered why. Universal will never have a 42 square mile compound to use…
…apparently without its own zoning laws now either.

Nobody would mistake you for “not a Disney”…but it doesn’t define your life and they care little how much you love them.

I’m actually saying there’s still a huge advantage which you’re agreeing with…but that’s not good enough…gotta throw it into “maximum overdrive” and Fight details with cell?

This is a non-argument, really.

Universal has made more tangible improvements since the Potter add…but a gap remains and always will.

 

[JusticeDisney]

So sad that you’re proposing something that isn’t actually possible…and I covered why. Universal will never have a 42 square mile compound to use…
…apparently without its own zoning laws now either.

Nobody would mistake you for “not a Disney”…but it doesn’t define your life and they care little how much you love them.

I’m actually saying there’s still a huge advantage which you’re agreeing with…but that’s not good enough…gotta throw it into “maximum overdrive” and Fight details with cell?

This is a non-argument, really.

Universal has made more tangible improvements since the Potter add…but a gap remains and always will.

Gotta admit, you are very good at constantly stating your opinion as if it’s a fact, lol! So much obviously wrong with what you just wrote, but it’s Super Bowl Sunday and I have much better things to do than be the 4.579th person that you argued with on here this week. Enjoy your day (and the game, if you are a football fan), my friend!

 

[celluloid]

I think this is a lot like people who would claim Disney and Disney- Pixar will never have a less animated theatrical box office than other companies' animated box office and yet here we are.

 

[JusticeDisney]

I think this is a lot like people who claim Disney and Disney- Pixar will never have a less animated theatrical box office than other companies' animated box office and yet here we are.

Not sure who those people are, but I’m not one of them.

 

[celluloid]

Not sure who those people are, but I’m not one of them.

That's good. I said a lot like, not the same.

Enjoy the Superbowl!

 

[JusticeDisney]

That's good. I said a lot like, not the same.

Enjoy the Superbowl!

You as well! It was great chatting with you today!

 

[SpectreJordan]

But unless you really care about attendance numbers and that gives one a seretonin high at the end of the day it will not matter.

Eventually, if the other place gets more of most people's time and money per capita and is growing.

Rememebr everoyne, It already happened. So unless you just say as long as MK is number 1, it does not matter.



2021 Attendnance from Themed Entertainment Association.
Universal Studios Florida (8.99 million)
Universal’s Islands of Adventure (9.1 million)
Animal Kingdom (7.2 million),
EPCOT (7.7 million)

I'm curious how much HHN effects Universal Studios's numbers. That park is definitely not better than any of the Disney parks.

I hope Islands can hit the 10 million mark soon, it 100% deserves it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm curious how much HHN effects Universal Studios's numbers. That park is definitely not better than any of the Disney parks.

I hope Islands can hit the 10 million mark soon, it 100% deserves it.

I’m sure epic will bring those numbers up…as the rising tide lifts all boats.

Just like wdw…for the first 19 years DAK didn’t deserve its numbers…and studios still doesn’t…so same effect

What is interesting is what will Comcast do after epic? A major redo of studios is in order

 

[Kirby86]

I'm curious how much HHN effects Universal Studios's numbers. That park is definitely not better than any of the Disney parks.

I hope Islands can hit the 10 million mark soon, it 100% deserves it.

Oh HHN no doubt helps with the attendance numbers. Personally I enjoy Universal Studios more then Hollywood Studios so I have to disagree with you on Universal Studios not being being better than any Disney Park.

 

[celluloid]

I'm curious how much HHN effects Universal Studios's numbers. That park is definitely not better than any of the Disney parks.

I hope Islands can hit the 10 million mark soon, it 100% deserves it.

The cause is not a change of the fact result though.

It is a separate ticketed event. If you count the event difference than you would really have to count all of the after hours and holiday events at MK.

Also, as a matter of an opinion. Even with its recent duds (Fallon and Fast) Bourne is kind of in the middle, not a winner for this T23D fan. I will take Universal Studios Florida over Disney's MGM Studios any day. Particularly as of late. My entire family agrees. So it is not that unusual of an opinion.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I think this is a lot like people who would claim Disney and Disney- Pixar will never have a less animated theatrical box office than other companies' animated box office and yet here we are.

I've never seen anyone make that claim on this forum.

Because such a claim would be astoundingly stupid.

If someone did post that, I would have immediately counter-exampled them. There are Pixar and DAS movies that were unprofitable (The Good Dinosaur, Tangled). Any other studio's animated film that made any profit at all would have beaten those movies at the Box Office.

I've mentioned on these forums that Blue Sky had a better Return On Investment than Pixar because they made their movies so inexpensively.

So, who are these people who made such an obviously dumb claim that had never been true?

 

[celluloid]

I've never seen anyone make that claim on this forum.

Because such a claim would be astoundingly stupid.

If someone did post that, I would have immediately counter-exampled them. There are Pixar and DAS movies that were unprofitable (The Good Dinosaur, Tangled). Any other studio's animated film that made any profit at all would have beaten those movies at the Box Office.

I've mentioned on these forums that Blue Sky had a better Return On Investment than Pixar because they made their movies so inexpensively.

So, who are these people who made such an obviously dumb claim that had never been true?

I am not sure why the second sentance in your post starts with the subordinating conjunction "Because." Just because you have never seen it, does not mean such a claim has never happened. To think that, would be well, astoundingly stupid.

The ones I have seen on the internet, are people who argue attendance of box office, not relative budget. So I don't think they are stupid, they just judge success on popularity, not revenue. They are however more recently, wrong on this too. A box office is what counts the money, so box office tends to be labeled the money it made the theaters, not the ROI for the studio.

I am sorry I really did not keep a list of their names, nor did I know them personally.

 

[Kirby86]

Well part of Disney’s issue with the animated film is the fact that their budgets are extremely high. Look at Lightyear budget vs Puss in Boots budget. Lightyear had a 200 million dollar budget and at the box office it made around 220 million. Puss in Boots was made for 90 million and so far has made around 400 so far. Universal got double the box office with less then half the budget

 

[celluloid]

Well part of Disney’s issue with the animated film is the fact that their budgets are extremely high. Look at Lightyear budget vs Puss in Boots budget. Lightyear had a 200 million dollar budget and at the box office it made around 220 million. Puss in Boots was made for 90 million and so far has made around 400 so far. Universal got double the box office with less then half the budget

Good point. Universal has won in both attendance of box office and Return on Investment for their animated films of 2021-2022. Likely to continue with Mario and maybe Trolls 3. Elemental and Wish will really have to hit big.
And using the relative to budget logic, this makes M3GAN Universal's Blumhouse thriller a bigger box office than Avatar Way of Water. Box office attendance and ROI are different things for this reason.


So if the argument was made that ROI is what matters.

Then Universal's Theme Parks are crushing it too.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Hotels are easy to build. My oldest kid and I stayed at Endless Summer for HHN for $149, and the room and resort were amazing. Bus to the resort worked like magic.

All their hotels are great! And obviously a great value.

The tide may be beginning to turn.

And in this battle, it’s the vacationer that wins.

 

[celluloid]

All their hotels are great! And obviously a great value.

The tide may be beginning to turn.

And in this battle, it’s the vacationer that wins.

They mostly remained going into construction and occupied when you consider the ratio to Disney's as well.

Fun(perhaps) factoid. Even if all of WDW's resort hotels were full to maximum capacity, the parks would still not be at their (typical) capacity.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

It changed the guest spending ratios. Which is the biggest want. Attendance is slow growing and guest spending is more immediate. Notice the amount of hotels and variety that have gone up since then. A water park was built,. Then more hotels in the works. Guests are spending time all or mostly at Universal, and not giving Disney as many days, and mom and dad are not spending as much on their kids at Disney because they want their merch budget for Universal too. More of it than ever. Three Days at Universal is what many will spend now, so why stay in the Disney Bubble we are just going there for a day at Magic Kingdom anyway? Let's shift our stay to a hotel that gives us more perks and convenience for our time we are going to spend more at? This has happened a lot. This is why International Drive ancillary business of tourist traps took off well but 192 has died even further. Where people are staying has clearly shifted in the last ten years.

The attendance has shifted more recently, as reputation of one brand increases and the other has fallen a bit.

Even with Star Wars, Universal had property beat DIsney.

Fair enough. There is an atmosphere at Universal that can really capture a person too. They theme it well. I honestly think at this point you could argue what is stopping them from at least tying Disney is solely Magic Kingdom and the mystique there.

Totally agree. People have been claiming that Universal is going to over take WDW for years. Simply never going to happen. Personally speaking, we love Universal and almost always make it a part of our trip. And Universal definitely does certain things better than WDW. All in all, though, WDW has been, is and always will be king - at least when the metric is attendance.

I am just saying it hasn't yet. Who knows in the future. If Disney sticks to the original script of making it fun for the entire family and revolving around that family atmosphere, then it will likely never get surpassed. But Universal is building another park right now, Disney just took one of their most popular rides of all-time out, in Florida and California. So, someone is making some bad decisions.

Nobody said potter would “end” anything…at least those thinking with a Brain…

What it had potential to do was change the game and make Disney less dominant. By a degree.

It has done that…more than I thought.

In practical terms - if forced Disney to improve DAK some and put a couple of additions into EPCOT. Studios is still woefully under-equipped for crowds now as it was then.

When epic opens, Comcast will have better park and resort capability now than they did in 2010 based on scale…Disney will not and has already committed to doing zero to change that until at least 2030 as it stands.

“You are the magic”

Oh I am with you. I have a couple of friends who always go to Disney and ONLY Disney. They have never gone to Universal Studios. Not once. Which is too bad. I first went in 1993 when Back to the Future was the better ride which the Simpsons replaced. I loved Universal, so I've gone back to it in all but two trips to Orlando in my lifetime. Will do it again in 2023. How can you not?

I will say that Universal certainly is trending in the right direction. How long it will take for them to surpass the Magic Kingdom is anyone's guess. But I will say this, at this point the non-MK parks in WDW and both Universal Parks seem to be similar. If all Disney is clinging to with attendance numbers is the fact that MK is still clearly #1 then that isn't good. It is like saying there are sports teams with similar players but one team still has the best one on either team, so they'll win all of the time. Which they won't.