How will Universal's Epic Universe effect Disney?

[JusticeDisney]

It seems I hit a nerve. This doesn't seem like a thread that you belong in.

Wow, you still seem pretty angry. Maybe put your Nintendo switch down for a while.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Not literally, but if Disney continues to take away what made them unique in the past then deciding between Universal and Disney will no longer be a matter of preference. It'll be a logical decision with a logical answer, universal is by far the superior of the two so go there. Because I'm sorry but TRON is no Hagrid my friend.

EDIT: unless you have very small children of course. Which is obviously not the majority.

Well, you see, that’s the problem. You keep proclaiming that Universal is superior to WDW. And maybe to you, it is. But to the overwhelming majority of people - as evidenced by attendance numbers - WDW is still and always has been vastly preferred. That said, I happen to be in the camp that believes that both places are awesome and there’s no need to choose between the two. Instead, we visit both.

 

[Jrb1979]

Well, you see, that’s the problem. You keep proclaiming that Universal is superior to WDW. And maybe to you, it is. But to the overwhelming majority of people - as evidenced by attendance numbers - WDW is still and always has been vastly preferred. That said, I happen to be in the camp that believes that both places are awesome and there’s no need to choose between the two. Instead, we visit both.

It's preferred mainly cause the majority of Disney guests aren't ride people. They prefer highly themed slow moving attractions versus any type of thrill. Disney works for people that bring their whole generation of family. From Granny all the way to the littles.

 

[UNCgolf]

The problem with this discussion is people have a tendency to assume everyone wants to ride every attraction, and that couldn't be farther from the truth.

Islands of Adventure is actually the least interesting of the six Universal/WDW parks for me. Jurassic Park River Adventure is wonderful and Spider-Man is good. Those are the only two attractions there I'd be willing to wait to ride (Hagrid's would probably join the list, but I haven't been on it yet). Nothing else there moves the needle for me -- Forbidden Journey and King Kong both have a few redeeming aspects, but rely too heavily on simulator portions that bore me (FJ is also most uncomfortable/unpleasant ride I think I've ever been on so that doesn't help). USF only has two interesting attractions (Revenge of the Mummy and E.T.) but Diagon Alley is so good that it pushes it past IoA for me. I'd actually take USF in the late 90s/early 2000s over either current Universal park in terms of actual attraction lineup.

That doesn't make it a bad park (it's obviously not a bad park) -- just that it's mainly targeting a different consumer base (I only like heavily themed coasters; the sheer physical thrill of a coaster just doesn't do much for me).

And the same is true in reverse, too. Universal's attraction lineup is far better/more interesting for some people than Disney's. But it's hard to look at Epic Universe and think it's going to draw a bunch of people away from Disney without knowing what exactly they're building there.

It also seems like Disney is chasing the market that prefers Universal with rides like TRON and Cosmic Rewind, which feels misguided to me, but we'll see what happens.

 

[JusticeDisney]

It's preferred mainly cause the majority of Disney guests aren't ride people. They prefer highly themed slow moving attractions versus any type of thrill. Disney works for people that bring their whole generation of family. From Granny all the way to the littles.

I totally disagree that WDW people aren’t ride people. Heck, just about every ride in all 4 parks has a line a mile long. Now, if the point you were trying to make is that WDW people aren’t THRILL ride people like Universal people are, then I agree with you completely.

 

[JusticeDisney]

The problem with this discussion is people have a tendency to assume everyone wants to ride every attraction, and that couldn't be farther from the truth.

Islands of Adventure has the least interesting attraction lineup of any of the six parks for me. Jurassic Park River Adventure is wonderful and Spider-Man is excellent. Those are the only two attractions there I'd be willing to wait to ride (Hagrid's would probably join the list, but I haven't been on it yet). Nothing else there moves the needle for me -- Forbidden Journey and King Kong both have a few redeeming aspects, but rely too heavily on simulator portions that bore me (FJ is also most uncomfortable/unpleasant ride I think I've ever been on so that doesn't help).

That doesn't make it a bad park (it's obviously not a bad park) -- just that it's mainly targeting a different consumer base (I only like heavily themed coasters; the sheer physical thrill of a coaster just doesn't do much for me).

And the same is true in reverse, too. Universal's attraction lineup is far better/more interesting for some people than Disney's. But it's hard to look at Epic Universe and think it's going to draw a bunch of people away from Disney without knowing what exactly they're building there.

It seems like Disney is chasing the market that prefers Universal with rides like TRON and Cosmic Rewind, which feels misguided to me, but we'll see what happens.

Well said.

 

[BlakeW39]

Well, you see, that’s the problem. You keep proclaiming that Universal is superior to WDW. And maybe to you, it is. But to the overwhelming majority of people - as evidenced by attendance numbers - WDW is still and always has been vastly preferred. That said, I happen to be in the camp that believes that both places are awesome and there’s no need to choose between the two. Instead, we visit both.

That's not true. Attendence for DHS, DAK and EPCOT isn't much higher than it is for USF and IoA. As shown by 2021, when Universal's parks surpassed most of Disney's. Obviously 2021 was still a year affected by COVID, but if Disney was so out of Universal's league as you seem to claim, even in 2021 Universal would have had no chance of surpassing Disney. See SeaWorld.

Also, most people don't have your resources and are forced to choose between which parks they will go to and which ones they will not.

P.S. you keep using attendance numbers as evidence of things they aren't. Attendance numbers are evidence of attendance numbers. Just because Disney has higher attendance does not mean they don't face competition from Universal.

 

[Jrb1979]

I totally disagree that WDW people aren’t ride people. Heck, just about every ride in all 4 parks has a line a mile long. Now, if the point you were trying to make is that WDW people aren’t THRILL ride people like Universal people are, then I agree with you completely.

That's the point I was making. They aren't Thrill ride people. How many Disney guests visit other parks besides Disney? I would guess very few.

 

[JusticeDisney]

That's not true. Attendence for DHS, DAK and EPCOT isn't much higher than it is for USF and IoA. As shown by 2021, when Universal's parks surpassed most of Disney's. Obviously 2021 was still a year affected by COVID, but if Disney was so out of Universal's league as you seem to claim, even in 2021 Universal would have had no chance of surpassing Disney. See SeaWorld.

Also, most people don't have your resources and are forced to choose between which parks they will go to and which ones they will not.

P.S. you keep using attendance numbers as evidence of things they aren't. Attendance numbers are evidence of attendance numbers. Just because Disney has higher attendance does not mean they don't face competition from Universal.

Well , first off, even in 2021 (which as you said isn’t a good year to look at because the world was still upside down), WDW doubled Universal in attendance. Secondly, attendance absolutely does matter as it is a direct correlation to popularity and dollars. That said, I never stated that WDW doesn’t face real competition from Universal, so you must have me mixed up with someone else. Indeed, I have repeatedly said on this forum that Universal is absolutely making a real run at WDW and that Epic is only going to help them in that regard. What I have also said, however, is that Universal will always be the Pepsi to WDW’s Coke.

 

[JusticeDisney]

That's the point I was making. They aren't Thrill ride people. How many Disney guests visit other parks besides Disney? I would guess very few.

I think you’re spot on with that observation.

 

[BlakeW39]

Well , first off, even in 2021 (which as you said isn’t a good year to look at because the world was still upside down), WDW doubled Universal in attendance. Secondly, attendance absolutely does matter It is a direct correlation to popularity and dollars. That said, I never stated that WDW doesn’t face real competition from Universal, so you must have me mixed up with someone else. Indeed, I have repeatedly said on this forum that Universal is absolutely making a real run at WDW and that Epic is only going to help them in that regard. What I have also said, however, is that Universal will always be the Pepsi to WDW’s Coke.

I wouldn't use terms like always and vastly. Universal and Disney are a lot more comparable than you're giving them credit for. Yes Disney has superior brand recognition, they're a larger resort that has a lot more history, and well as more cultural importance. But Pepsi to Coca Cola is an apples to oranges comparison.

Also, I didn't say attendence doesn't matter. It's just not evidence of who prefers what because the attendence numbers by themselves don't give us that much information. There are potentially hundreds of reasons why they are what they are. You don't need to bring them up so frequently.

 

[BlakeW39]

The problem with this discussion is people have a tendency to assume everyone wants to ride every attraction, and that couldn't be farther from the truth.

Islands of Adventure is actually the least interesting of the six Universal/WDW parks for me. Jurassic Park River Adventure is wonderful and Spider-Man is good. Those are the only two attractions there I'd be willing to wait to ride (Hagrid's would probably join the list, but I haven't been on it yet). Nothing else there moves the needle for me -- Forbidden Journey and King Kong both have a few redeeming aspects, but rely too heavily on simulator portions that bore me (FJ is also most uncomfortable/unpleasant ride I think I've ever been on so that doesn't help). USF only has two interesting attractions (Revenge of the Mummy and E.T.) but Diagon Alley is so good that it pushes it past IoA for me. I'd actually take USF in the late 90s/early 2000s over either current Universal park in terms of actual attraction lineup.

That doesn't make it a bad park (it's obviously not a bad park) -- just that it's mainly targeting a different consumer base (I only like heavily themed coasters; the sheer physical thrill of a coaster just doesn't do much for me).

And the same is true in reverse, too. Universal's attraction lineup is far better/more interesting for some people than Disney's. But it's hard to look at Epic Universe and think it's going to draw a bunch of people away from Disney without knowing what exactly they're building there.

It also seems like Disney is chasing the market that prefers Universal with rides like TRON and Cosmic Rewind, which feels misguided to me, but we'll see what happens.

That's the point I was making. They aren't Thrill ride people. How many Disney guests visit other parks besides Disney? I would guess very few.

Fair assessment. Those who are too old, too young, impaired or too scared (I don't mean this negatively, of course) to ride Universal's attractions will find more reason to go to Disney. In that respect, all else equal I think Disney is pulling from a larger population of potential guests.

As far as whether Disney guests are thrill seekers or if they want to ride every ride, I think Disney guests are pretty diverse. Some of them like thrill rides, others do not. In terms of quality though, at similar thrill levels, Universal seems to boast the superior attractions right now. Per park at least. So for guests who can do all the rides at both, even if they only get around to a few then Universal is probably the better option.

 

[JusticeDisney]

I wouldn't use terms like always and vastly. Universal and Disney are a lot more comparable than you're giving them credit for. Yes Disney has superior brand recognition, they're a larger resort that has a lot more history, and well as more cultural importance. But Pepsi to Coca Cola is an apples to oranges comparison.

Also, I didn't say attendence doesn't matter. It's just not evidence of who prefers what because the attendence numbers by themselves don't give us that much information. There are potentially hundreds of reasons why they are what they are. You don't need to bring them up so frequently.

Ok, let me ask you this. If not by looking at attendance, how else do we gauge the popularity of a particular theme park?

 

[BlakeW39]

Ok, let me ask you this. If not by looking at attendance, how else do we gauge the popularity of a particular theme park?

That would depend on what you mean by popularity. Attendance does describe popularity in some ways, in terms of how many people go to the parks. But they don't offer explanations with any more depth than that, such as which people have which opinions on which particular parks.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Fair assessment. Those who are too old, too young, impaired or too scared (I don't mean this negatively, of course) to ride Universal's attractions will find more reason to go to Disney. In that respect, all else equal I think Disney is pulling from a larger population of potential guests.

As far as whether Disney guests are thrill seekers or if they want to ride every ride, I think Disney guests are pretty diverse. Some of them like thrill rides, others do not. In terms of quality though, at similar thrill levels, Universal seems to boast the superior attractions right now. Per park at least. So for guests who can do all the rides at both, even if they only get around to a few then Universal is probably the better option.

In your OPINION Universal has the superior attractions. You keep stating that as if it is some sort of fact, and it is not.

 

[JusticeDisney]

That would depend on what you mean by popularity. Attendance does describe popularity in some ways, in terms of how many people go to the parks. But they don't offer explanations with any more depth than that, such as which people have which opinions on which particular parks.

By popularity I mean the parks that people prefer to spend their time and money in. And by that standard, attendance is the critical metric.

 

[BlakeW39]

In your OPINION Universal has the superior attractions. You keep stating that as if it is some sort of fact, and it is not.

Sure.

By popularity I mean the parks that people prefer to spend their time and money in. And by that standard, attendance is the critical metric.

I still think this is too vague. You can measure per guest spending, you can measure preference for the different parks by rating system I guess, and you can measure which parks individual guests spend more time in, but you can't answer all three of those questions with just one variable. And none of those are measured by sheer attendance.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Sure.



I still think this is too vague. You can measure per guest spending, you can measure preference for the different parks by rating system I guess, and you can measure which parks individual guests spend more time in, but you can't answer all three of those questions with just one variable. And none of those are measured by sheer attendance.

Thats fair.

 

[TalkToEthan]

I love how when Universal adds a ride or builds a new park - presumably in an effort to try to lessen the total domination that WDW has always had over it - that is considered a great move by a great company. But when WDW adds a new ride or a new land, they are in total panic mode simply scrambling to try to keep up with Universal.

People here, for the most part, are fair about calling out both Universal and Disney for their abominations.

How many times have we heard Fast N Furious, Fallon and screens everywhere on the universal side and Chester and Hester and magic carpet low grade offerings at Disney.

 

[JusticeDisney]

People here, for the most part, are fair about calling out both Universal and Disney for their abominations.

How many times have we heard Fast N Furious, Fallon and screens everywhere on the universal side and Chester and Hester and magic carpet low grade offerings at Disney.

Very true.