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How long before we start seeing tattoos on Disney CM's?

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
That could be. Not to mention we grew up when the toughest of tough guys got tattoos. You got them in prison, or you were a biker or you fought in the war. Yeah perhaps enough of us saw how bad they look when people's skin ages. There will be a lot of grandmas who will likely re-think their youthful decisions in about 40 years.

The problem is, tattoos actually meant something back then. Like I said, a select few got it. When a skinny 20 year old with bony arms gets a tattoo it just looks..........................well, bizarre. I am glad my wife never got one before we met, it is a turn off for me when women have them.
So you obviously understand things have changed.

Those who used to wear tattoos are no longer the same group as those who currently wear tattoos. Where it used to be sailors and prisoners, sometimes with really poor work done, now it's teenage girls getting really nice work done.

This is the part where you adjust your perspective accordingly (as most of society has, as evidenced by Disney's adjustment of their policies.) Some people getting tattoos today are still getting them in prison or in gangs. Many people getting tattoos today are getting it as an accessory or even a memorial.

We should be able to tell the difference.
 

jaklgreen

Well-Known Member
I am here now and have seen several cast members sporting their tattoos. I spoke to a young man who was at the entrance of BTMRR and commented on how nice it was for them to not have to cover them up. He said that some people are making nasty comments to them. I find that to be a jerk thing to do. The cast member was so nice and he does not deserve that. None of them do. Seeing the tattoos has not affected our trip at all so I dont see why anyone would say anything about it, other then to be rude and force their beliefs on others. We have seen way more guests with tattoos then cast members. I feel like I am the only one without a tattoo now.
 

mergatroid

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Tolerance is not agreeing with what someone does or believes, it is simply accepting that they had a right to do it. I tolerate all sort of people doing all sorts of things I find stupid and often offensive. You don't have to engage in homosexual acts to prove your tolerance of homosexuals you simply have to tolerate them even if you find their acts immoral,revolting or whatever. Somewhere people seem to have forgotten what tolerance is.
Yes, you sound a really tolerant type of guy!

It's strange you seem so interested in homosexual acts (you mention them twice)? I'm heterosexual and married to a female, I've never been interested in sexual acts with other men so I kind of just don't think about those things. It's like with all the heterosexual couples I know in my street, I don't think about what they're doing behind closed doors either (well perhaps the blonde at number 26 but that's a different story).

Unless these men you speak of are performing sexual acts publicly when you're present, why would you seemingly get so worked up about it that you use words like 'immoral' or 'revolting'? Seems like these thoughts are in your mind quite often, why think about these things instead of not and just mind your own business? I'm pretty sure 'immoral' and 'revolting' acts go on in heterosexual households too, do you think about that and judge all heterosexuals based on that possibility too?

I'm guessing that you're a man of God and if so there's nothing wrong with that and it's to be respected. Doesn't God says for us not to judge people, I thought that was his job? It seems to me that if you stopped imagining men having sex with other men so often, that perhaps you'd have a more enjoyable life as a self proclaimed 'tolerant guy'?
 
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Amidala

Well-Known Member
Tolerance is not agreeing with what someone does or believes, it is simply accepting that they had a right to do it. I tolerate all sort of people doing all sorts of things I find stupid and often offensive. You don't have to engage in homosexual acts to prove your tolerance of homosexuals you simply have to tolerate them even if you find their acts immoral,revolting or whatever. Somewhere people seem to have forgotten what tolerance is.

I'm pretty sure if your idea of tolerance is quietly disapproving of how gay people live their lives & just managing the bare minimum of not telling them so directly, you're not going to be very well liked within legitimately tolerant circles.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
I am here now and have seen several cast members sporting their tattoos. I spoke to a young man who was at the entrance of BTMRR and commented on how nice it was for them to not have to cover them up. He said that some people are making nasty comments to them. I find that to be a jerk thing to do. The cast member was so nice and he does not deserve that. None of them do. Seeing the tattoos has not affected our trip at all so I dont see why anyone would say anything about it, other then to be rude and force their beliefs on others. We have seen way more guests with tattoos then cast members. I feel like I am the only one without a tattoo now.

Wow.

So they think a tattoo on a CM is a problem and takes them out of their experience; meanwhile, they think being jerks towards those CMs isn't a problem and doesn't take everyone out of their experience? *As if anyone is or should be interested in their opinions*
 

Bill in Atlanta

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure if your idea of tolerance is quietly disapproving of how gay people live their lives & just managing the bare minimum of not telling them so directly, you're not going to be very well liked within legitimately tolerant circles.
Isn’t he describing the dictionary definition of “tolerate” though?

allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.
 

Bullseye1967

Is that who I am?
Premium Member
Isn’t he describing the dictionary definition of “tolerate” though?

allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.
Actually I am kind of with Bill here. My personal definition of tolerance whether it comes to everyday life, something that annoys me, politics, religion or anything else is just that. Some things don't align with the way I live my life but don't bother me in the least. Some things bother me a bit but I don't let it get to me. Some things really bother me but I am tolerant and just coexist with it. In each of these of these cases I live my life and tolerate anything that is different WITHOUT trying to change it. Let me give you a few examples:

I am straight, but I have a lot of gay friends. Some may say I am tolerant of different life choices

I am not that religious, but would consider myself a Christian. I could really care if someone else is Hindu, Jewish, or Muslim. Some may say I am tolerant of different religion choices.

I enjoy a cocktail from time to time but not a big drinker. One of my neighbors has huge parties at least twice a month with many drunken guests. They usually are pretty good but sometimes go a bit late with the noise. I let it go because I was young once.
some may say I am tolerant of my neighbors, or even people who like to party a bit.

If I am paying over $100 a plate for a meal at a nice place, I do not want to hear a screaming child(ren) the entire time. BUT Some may say I am tolerant of people with kids because I had them and now have grandkids.

I would never try to convince a gay person to be straight.
I would never ask someone from a different religion to join mine.
I would never ask a friend or neighbor to act more like me.
I would never think to offer advice to a parent about a child unless they asked for it.
I would never tell someone my view on life is better than theirs.
I would never ask anyone to change what they are doing to conform to my standards. That in my opinion is being tolerant.

I have a real problem with those who are TOLERANT and tell others how they are right, or how you should think like them.

Statements like "I'm pretty sure if your idea of tolerance is quietly disapproving of how gay people live their lives & just managing the bare minimum of not telling them so directly, you're not going to be very well liked within legitimately tolerant circles." are absolutely wrong.

"you're not going to be very well liked within legitimately tolerant circles"

Who make the judgement what is "legitimately tolerant circles?"



How would this person be liked or not liked? They are not stating an opinion. It is in their mind. They may think it is bad, but not telling anyone. That IS tolerance.
 

mergatroid

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Isn’t he describing the dictionary definition of “tolerate” though?

allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.
Actually I am kind of with Bill here. My personal definition of tolerance whether it comes to everyday life, something that annoys me, politics, religion or anything else is just that. Some things don't align with the way I live my life but don't bother me in the least. Some things bother me a bit but I don't let it get to me. Some things really bother me but I am tolerant and just coexist with it. In each of these of these cases I live my life and tolerate anything that is different WITHOUT trying to change it. Let me give you a few examples:

I am straight, but I have a lot of gay friends. Some may say I am tolerant of different life choices

I am not that religious, but would consider myself a Christian. I could really care if someone else is Hindu, Jewish, or Muslim. Some may say I am tolerant of different religion choices.

I enjoy a cocktail from time to time but not a big drinker. One of my neighbors has huge parties at least twice a month with many drunken guests. They usually are pretty good but sometimes go a bit late with the noise. I let it go because I was young once.
some may say I am tolerant of my neighbors, or even people who like to party a bit.

If I am paying over $100 a plate for a meal at a nice place, I do not want to hear a screaming child(ren) the entire time. BUT Some may say I am tolerant of people with kids because I had them and now have grandkids.

I would never try to convince a gay person to be straight.
I would never ask someone from a different religion to join mine.
I would never ask a friend or neighbor to act more like me.
I would never think to offer advice to a parent about a child unless they asked for it.
I would never tell someone my view on life is better than theirs.
I would never ask anyone to change what they are doing to conform to my standards. That in my opinion is being tolerant.

I have a real problem with those who are TOLERANT and tell others how they are right, or how you should think like them.

Statements like "I'm pretty sure if your idea of tolerance is quietly disapproving of how gay people live their lives & just managing the bare minimum of not telling them so directly, you're not going to be very well liked within legitimately tolerant circles." are absolutely wrong.

"you're not going to be very well liked within legitimately tolerant circles"

Who make the judgement what is "legitimately tolerant circles?"



How would this person be liked or not liked? They are not stating an opinion. It is in their mind. They may think it is bad, but not telling anyone. That IS tolerance.


He used the words 'immoral' and 'revolting' to describe gay sex, if that's tolerance then I'm a monkeys uncle. When he says "Even if you find them immoral or revolting", as though he's technically trying to distance himself from saying that he thinks that himself. It's like somebody on here recounting a story of somebody being racist and using the words they said in that story. What next, having people saying "Even if you find black people x,y, or z" using some racist stereotype. Using "Even if you find" followed by racist, sexist or homophobic material isn't on. I just think we're better than that on here?
 
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Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
He used the words 'immoral' and 'revolting' to describe gay sex, if that's tolerance then I'm a monkeys uncle. When he says "Even if you find them immoral or revolting", as though he's technically trying to distance himself from saying that he thinks that himself. It's like somebody on here recounting a story of somebody being racist and using the words they said in that story. What next, having people saying "Even if you find black people x,y, or z" using some racist stereotype. Using "Even if you find" followed by racist, sexist or homophobic material isn't on. I just think we're better than that on here?
That's kind of true, but don't you think that you are asking to much to expect that everyone, due to upbringing or location, might not view things as wrong or immoral? The important thing is that a private thought remains a private thought. If they treat those people that they don't agree with as equals concerning everything except sexual orientation then tolerance becomes acting like a human being instead of an ego that feels that everything should be their way. There is nothing that will magically change deep seated life long opinions except education. Small minds have no room for new ideas but there are some that just everyday living and exposure slowly alter those inner feelings. It's a long trip and even with today bigotry toward the LGBT communities it has come a long way just in my lifetime and it's not going away and pretty much has been since the beginning of time. I'm not a member but I am supportive of your cause and have been for many years.

Back in the late 1970's I was the general manager of a printing company. The active owner was approached to print a small newspaper for a Lesbian group. He decided that his religious beliefs wouldn't allow him to publish it. After a long talk with him I convinced him that as a public media entity that blocking someone else from expressing their views was unAmerican and inappropriately judgmental. We printed it. I wish that at some point it won't be necessary to be so outspoken about it and being whatever you are is the way it should be, no ones business but your own. Orientation has never come up as a question in all my years of working or socializing. It should be that way for everyone regardless of their life style. I don't have to tell people my orientation and neither should anyone else. This battle will not be won until that becomes the case. Unfortunately, right now, that isn't possible with so many mule headed minds to be educated.
 

mergatroid

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
That's kind of true, but don't you think that you are asking to much to expect that everyone, due to upbringing or location, might not view things as wrong or immoral? The important thing is that a private thought remains a private thought. If they treat those people that they don't agree with as equals concerning everything except sexual orientation then tolerance becomes acting like a human being instead of an ego that feels that everything should be their way. There is nothing that will magically change deep seated life long opinions except education. Small minds have no room for new ideas but there are some that just everyday living and exposure slowly alter those inner feelings. It's a long trip and even with today bigotry toward the LGBT communities it has come a long way just in my lifetime and it's not going away and pretty much has been since the beginning of time. I'm not a member but I am supportive of your cause and have been for many years.

Back in the late 1970's I was the general manager of a printing company. The active owner was approached to print a small newspaper for a Lesbian group. He decided that his religious beliefs wouldn't allow him to publish it. After a long talk with him I convinced him that as a public media entity that blocking someone else from expressing their views was unAmerican and inappropriately judgmental. We printed it. I wish that at some point it won't be necessary to be so outspoken about it and being whatever you are is the way it should be, no ones business but your own. Orientation has never come up as a question in all my years of working or socializing. It should be that way for everyone regardless of their life style. I don't have to tell people my orientation and neither should anyone else. This battle will not be won until that becomes the case. Unfortunately, right now, that isn't possible with so many mule headed minds to be educated.
You raise a good point about it taking a while for people to change, that's why I'm calling him over it on here. I'm straight but have no issue with gay people, that's just part of who they are. I know a deeply religious Christian guy who has it right for me. When I spoke to him about his views on gay people discretely and privately one time, he was very philosophical about it. He basically said that whilst he believed the bible seemed to instruct against homosexuality, it also said to love and not judge others. He would therefore never dream of saying things to offend gay people and would happily show respect and treat them equally to everyone else. Whilst his religious beliefs told him it was wrong to be gay (or that's how he interpreted it), he felt it wasn't his place to tell others how to behave sexually or otherwise.

He'd never dream of posting remarks like those on here which evoke anything but tolerance in my humble opinion. The reason I'm questioning the poster over his comments is because it appears he sees no harm in making comments that I'm guessing are offensive to some, if not nearly all gay people. What strikes me as even more odd is that the topic is about tattoos and I don't even see why potentially un pc remarks about gay sex come into it? You can perhaps at a push equate gay people being a minority group if you consider tattoo'd folk a minority, but to use what I believe to be inflammatory or unkind words towards gay people just seems off to me.

If he'd replied to my initial post just saying he'd phrased things a bit bluntly then I'd have been more accommodating, as it is he didn't really do that. Perhaps my post angered him, therefore making hitting back his priority? If so I'm happy to clear the air and start over with an apology to him, I just don't get that vibe from him though
 

Big Phil

Well-Known Member
So you obviously understand things have changed.

Those who used to wear tattoos are no longer the same group as those who currently wear tattoos. Where it used to be sailors and prisoners, sometimes with really poor work done, now it's teenage girls getting really nice work done.

This is the part where you adjust your perspective accordingly (as most of society has, as evidenced by Disney's adjustment of their policies.) Some people getting tattoos today are still getting them in prison or in gangs. Many people getting tattoos today are getting it as an accessory or even a memorial.

We should be able to tell the difference.

I'm not a tattoo type of guy, but it used to actually mean something when someone got them. Now it isn't even the counter-culture anymore. That's my take. Meh.
 

jaklgreen

Well-Known Member
How are you all not used to seeing people with tattoos by now? I live in the conservative midwest and see people of all ages with tattoos daily. I do work with the public so that might make a difference. Honestly, I don't even notice them anymore unless they are really weird or on the face. It sure as heck doesn't ruin my WDW vacation.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
He'd never dream of posting remarks like those on here which evoke anything but tolerance in my humble opinion. The reason I'm questioning the poster over his comments is because it appears he sees no harm in making comments that I'm guessing are offensive to some, if not nearly all gay people.

Exactly. He felt free to share those, quite frankly, cruel and hurtful words knowing full well a TON of LGBTQ+ people are on these boards and would read them. We are actual human beings, and words have power.

He did that to ensure we all knew we were lesser than. That we are not to be tolerated, because we are immoral and revolting.

Do you know what’s immoral and revolting? Murdering someone.

Do you know what’s not immoral or revolting? Being your true authentic self and finding real love with those you connect with and are attracted to.
 

BuddyThomas

Well-Known Member
Exactly. He felt free to share those, quite frankly, cruel and hurtful words knowing full well a TON of LGBTQ+ people are on these boards and would read them. We are actual human beings, and words have power.

He did that to ensure we all knew we were lesser than. That we are not to be tolerated, because we are immoral and revolting.

Do you know what’s immoral and revolting? Murdering someone.

Do you know what’s not immoral or revolting? Being your true authentic self and finding real love with those you connect with and are attracted to.
Perfectly said. Also what is immoral and revolting is someone plastering a passive aggressive insult against the LGBTQ community (or any community for that matter) wrapped in a lecture about "tolerance" on a Disney chat board.
 

Giss Neric

Well-Known Member
Can't believe they gave this dude a platform.

NOTE:
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Demarke

Have I told you lately that I 👍 you?
Premium Member
I don’t really have strong feelings one way or another whether tattoos are visible on cast members in roles where they aren’t contradictory to the theming. What gets me more is how the debate seems to have turned into whether it’s some big win over a discriminatory policy rather than a simple uniform change.

In my opinion, unless you work for yourself, the workplace is not your personal platform to express yourself. I love to wear shorts and wear them outside of work well past when others have switched to blue jeans in the Fall, but I don’t think my employer should be obligated to let me express myself that way when the expectation is long sleeve shirt and slacks. If I kneeled in court when the bailiff says all rise, I’d likely be cited for contempt and fired. More on point, some of the best lawyers I know have tattoos and display them proudly on their own time but would never do so in court because that’s a time to represent who their clients and their firm are and their interests, not the time to represent their own individuality.

I have no judgment of people with tattoos and have many, many friends with lots of them. Some of them have jobs where they can show them, some do not. That Disney has decided that exposed tattoos is okay in their new uniform guidelines doesn’t upset me, but it also wouldn’t upset me if they had left it as is, because work is where you go 8ish hours a day to promote the aims/expression of your employer and/or clients in exchange for money, not a personal forum for self-expression if that doesn’t fit with your employer’s wishes.
 
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The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Isn’t he describing the dictionary definition of “tolerate” though?

allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.
Aye! Tolerance isn't quite the happy fun word it is often mistaken for.

To tolerate implies disapproval from a position of power and superiority.

A productive means to a functioning pluriform society, to be sure. But not to be confused as synonymous with acceptance, or indifference, or embracement.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
I don't think about what they're doing behind closed doors either (well perhaps the blonde at number 26 but that's a different story).
Excuse me, that's me wife you're talking about! And what we do behind closed doors is our own private business, thank you very much.

Suffice to say that it involves lots of roleplay, tattoo parlours, green ink, and plastering the word 'tolerant' in obscure foreign languages on my backside.
 

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