How long before we start seeing tattoos on Disney CM's?

[Goofyernmost]

Aye! Tolerance isn't quite the happy fun word it is often mistaken for.

To tolerate implies disapproval from a position of power and superiority.

A productive means to a functioning pluriform society, to be sure. But not to be confused as synonymous with acceptance, or indifference, or embracement.

Not sure I see what connection it has to position of power and superiority. What it does do is express the willingness to let others live their lives different than someone else and not attempt to pass judgment on them. In recent times we have seen an increase in people that do not tolerate and they are all not only not powerful, but also a long way from being superior.

Your description really say that you feel that people do not have any freedom in observation of differences and saying it is my job to determine what is moral and what isn't and act upon it in a mistakenly self righteous manner. What tolerance really is would be... "OK, they are different then mine but, it isn't my concern as they will be judged by a much higher power so at this point we have no dog in this fight. Someplace in that Bible everyone quotes it also says the we "not judge, lest we be judged". The Bible has become a book of convenience it is used to find any trace of approval for our own behavior and ignoring the ones that are in opposition to what we do as humans.

 

[FettFan]

If you look at any CM tattoos, Miss Piggy will punch you in the face.

 

[FettFan]

After reading through the last few pages, I'm not sure how exactly this all got hijacked into discussions of "tolerance" and mentions of the Bible.

But my final word is this: there is a time and a place for everything, including tattoos.
It's fine to show off ink if you're working as a mechanic, a plumber, whatever.

But certain places, you just expect to be of a higher degree of professionalism. I might be cool with buying an Alex Box footlong from a dude with gauges in his ears and both arms fully sleeved, because it's a baseball stadium and that's par for the course.
Disney however was supposed to be different. (lord knows they charge you different)

I think that's the biggest issue here. Forget "I do wuh I want!", it's about Disney abandoning that Disney Difference and allowing the standards to drop too far low.

And as I alluded to in my original post here (now mod-deleted as apparently came off a lot meaner than I intended), Disney Parks and Resorts in the USA has essentially been in decline for 20 years now. We've seen an influx of cheapeneering, from the Animal Kingdom's last-minute carnival games and tourist-trap atmosphere of Dinoland USA, to off-the-shelf rides (Alien Swirling Saucers), to Epcot Center's exposed show buildings that stick out like a sore thumb.


The "Disney Difference" is dead, and the Walt Disney Company's need to cater to the lowest common denominator of American consumer society killed it.

They're not the Vacation Kingdom of the World anymore; they're Six Flags Over Mickey.

 

[mergatroid]

You know it might be useful if you read what things actually said and stop trying to pretend what is written is what you wanted to see. You didn't even bother to properly quote the line let along use the context in which it was used. The full quote was:

"You don't have to engage in homosexual acts to prove your tolerance of homosexuals you simply have to tolerate them even if you find their acts immoral,revolting or whatever."

No place in there did I even mention how I felt about homosexuals. The reality is people that have an issue with homosexuals tend to use the terms immoral or revolting, so using those terms was really the only way to make my point. Sometimes I'm not sure if people are just ignorant when it comes to reading comprehension or are willfully trying to twist things just to try and make them sound like what they wished someone had said. Maybe you can explain what the reason for your ridiculous twisting of the quote.

There was no need for you to add the words 'immoral' or 'revolting' in there, that was your choice and is very telling. Racists use certain words don't they, would you makes posts using those offensive words typed out? By your logic of saying "No place in there did I even mention how I felt about homosexuals" (a word for word quote) means I could say

"Poster x's sons may well be homosexuals, having immoral homosexual sex with men for money in side alleys at night".

Note nowhere do I say that they do that, but by your logic that's the type of posting you're fine with. The words you chose to include were inflammatory and offensive, nobody but you made you choose those words. Again do you use racist words when talking about racism to make your point? What's more telling is nowhere have you even hinted at seeming apologetic for possibly offending somebody by accident with your post, despite a member of that community posting pointing out they were offended. Instead you just seem to just want to justify it, coming across as homophobic.

Here's what I'm going to do as we're not really getting anywhere. I will apologise to you now if I somehow misunderstood your post. If you genuinely are a tolerant guy and you genuinely included those words only to make the point that less tolerant folk than you think differently, then I'm sorry for misrepresenting your views.

In return as we're now all on the same page you may want to consider apologising for accidentally offending others, explaining that was never your intent. It's up to you, though I'm sure a decent Christian gentlemen who considers himself tolerant will have no problem doing that. I have no interest in arguing any further with you, have a great day.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Most of what I’ve seen so far is actually less distracting than the awkward tattoo sleeves people have been wearing for a while now. When I was originally hired you couldn’t really have tattoos at all, unless it was “coverable by a bathing suit” said my recruiter. Then they started allowing them but you had to wear long sleeves to cover it, and now here we are. It’s also getting harder to find as many people to agree to the old look, and I don’t think pay necessarily would help, I don’t think most people would find the extra couple dollars an hour worth the trouble. Also Disney was getting into tricky situations with some of their locations. How could you tell someone at Aulani they could expose their tattoos and not allow someone at Disneyland not to? This is the way the world is heading and I think in 10 years we will look back and wonder how Disney ever enforced a gender based grooming standard for so long.

 

[Goofyernmost]

OK, if you guys say so. However, if I spend A few grand to go to WDW, I don't care if the CM's are wearing a potted geranium on their heads. How unable is everyone to see past their own shallow physical demands on others and just enjoy the show and not obsess over minor body decoration that isn't even yours. For the most part all they are going to be doing is asking you "how many in your party" or doing a two finger point toward the restroom you asked about. Aren't there enough real problems in the world to make that all seem pretty trivial. BTW, immersion is a personal mental process. Disney can set up a story line, but you have to allow yourself to forget that you are living in a real world and that WDW is located in the Central Florida part of the real world. It is up to you to imagine that isn't where you are standing. Can you imagine how difficult it was to imagine Disneyland story immersion when men were wearing suits and ties and women were in Dresses and heals. Just like everyone did in real life during that time.

All that I can ever think of when these types of discussions came up about how a male CM had to be clean shaven. And there was Walt, the guy that made the rule sporting his famous upper lip whiskers. Double standards? Or was he thinking the he could carry it off with class and dignity and anyone else with one would be low class scum?

 

[mergatroid]

OK, if you guys say so. However, if I spend A few grand to go to WDW, I don't care if the CM's are wearing a potted geranium on their heads. How unable is everyone to see past their own shallow physical demands on others and just enjoy the show and not obsess over minor body decoration that isn't even yours. For the most part all they are going to be doing is asking you "how many in your party" or doing a two finger point toward the restroom you asked about. Aren't there enough real problems in the world to make that all seem pretty trivial. BTW, immersion is a personal mental process. Disney can set up a story line, but you have to allow yourself to forget that you are living in a real world and that WDW is located in the Central Florida part of the real world. It is up to you to imagine that isn't where you are standing. Can you imagine how difficult it was to imagine Disneyland story immersion when men were wearing suits and ties and women were in Dresses and heals. Just like everyone did in real life during that time.

All that I can ever think of when these types of discussions came up about how a male CM had to be clean shaven. And there was Walt, the guy that made the rule sporting his famous upper lip whiskers. Double standards? Or was he thinking the he could carry it off with class and dignity and anyone else with one would be low class scum?

Completely agree. There's so many problems in the world though that if we never discussed anything else it would be kind of depressing. As the thread starter my aim was merely to start this discussion here as it seemed a Disney forum would be the place to talk about the tattoo rules at Disney. Personally I'd never dream of getting worked up or have it ruin my trip, it's just a preference of mine similar to most who respond. Perhaps one or two will say it ruins their trip but I'm sure they're in the minority of those who are just debating their preference. I'm usually accused of being too pro-Disney so perhaps my post stands out a bit as being something that really bothers me, it doesn't bother me that much but it does interest me.

 

[CosmicRays]

After reading through the last few pages, I'm not sure how exactly this all got hijacked into discussions of "tolerance" and mentions of the Bible.

But my final word is this: there is a time and a place for everything, including tattoos.
It's fine to show off ink if you're working as a mechanic, a plumber, whatever.

But certain places, you just expect to be of a higher degree of professionalism. I might be cool with buying an Alex Box footlong from a dude with gauges in his ears and both arms fully sleeved, because it's a baseball stadium and that's par for the course.
Disney however was supposed to be different. (lord knows they charge you different)

I think that's the biggest issue here. Forget "I do wuh I want!", it's about Disney abandoning that Disney Difference and allowing the standards to drop too far low.

And as I alluded to in my original post here (now mod-deleted as apparently came off a lot meaner than I intended), Disney Parks and Resorts in the USA has essentially been in decline for 20 years now. We've seen an influx of cheapeneering, from the Animal Kingdom's last-minute carnival games and tourist-trap atmosphere of Dinoland USA, to off-the-shelf rides (Alien Swirling Saucers), to Epcot Center's exposed show buildings that stick out like a sore thumb.


The "Disney Difference" is dead, and the Walt Disney Company's need to cater to the lowest common denominator of American consumer society killed it.

They're not the Vacation Kingdom of the World anymore; they're Six Flags Over Mickey.

While I understand where your coming from, I think the idea of professionalism is changing every day. The suit and tie days are long gone for the most part and I know plenty of businesses ranging from the obvious like Tattoo shops and bars to the not so obvious like Best Buy and now Disney World changing their stances on appearances. I think Tattoos for the younger generation are seen as an extension of themselves and their personality. A lot of different businesses and companies are finding that with a more comfortable employee comes better repertoire with the customer and ultimately a better working environment. A person can still dress to impress but not fit the old standard of professionalism you might see in something like Mad Men.

 

[thomas998]

There was no need for you to add the words 'immoral' or 'revolting' in there, that was your choice and is very telling. Racists use certain words don't they, would you makes posts using those offensive words typed out? By your logic of saying "No place in there did I even mention how I felt about homosexuals" (a word for word quote) means I could say

"Poster x's sons may well be homosexuals, having immoral homosexual sex with men for money in side alleys at night".

Note nowhere do I say that they do that, but by your logic that's the type of posting you're fine with. The words you chose to include were inflammatory and offensive, nobody but you made you choose those words. Again do you use racist words when talking about racism to make your point? What's more telling is nowhere have you even hinted at seeming apologetic for possibly offending somebody by accident with your post, despite a member of that community posting pointing out they were offended. Instead you just seem to just want to justify it, coming across as homophobic.

Here's what I'm going to do as we're not really getting anywhere. I will apologise to you now if I somehow misunderstood your post. If you genuinely are a tolerant guy and you genuinely included those words only to make the point that less tolerant folk than you think differently, then I'm sorry for misrepresenting your views.

In return as we're now all on the same page you may want to consider apologising for accidentally offending others, explaining that was never your intent. It's up to you, though I'm sure a decent Christian gentlemen who considers himself tolerant will have no problem doing that. I have no interest in arguing any further with you, have a great day.

Apparently your apologies are of the same poor quality as your reading comprehension. Of course I'm sure you'll try and twist what I've written here to prove I believe the Earth is flat or some other nonsense.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Completely agree. There's so many problems in the world though that if we never discussed anything else it would be kind of depressing. As the thread starter my aim was merely to start this discussion here as it seemed a Disney forum would be the place to talk about the tattoo rules at Disney. Personally I'd never dream of getting worked up or have it ruin my trip, it's just a preference of mine similar to most who respond. Perhaps one or two will say it ruins their trip but I'm sure they're in the minority of those who are just debating their preference. I'm usually accused of being too pro-Disney so perhaps my post stands out a bit as being something that really bothers me, it doesn't bother me that much but it does interest me.

You are correct and I over-reacted myself, but mostly I was addressing those that were convinced that Disney has gone to hell in a handbasket because people that work there want to be able to be themselves. We all have to remember that we live in a different century then Walt did when making those rules. I don't see it as anything even slightly related to the immersion factor unless they are dressed like the old fashioned hobo's or the 60's flower children, eyes glazed over approximately one toke over the line. If they are friendly and helpful that should be all we should expect. Don't forget this is the same company that let Joe Rohde wear random car parts hang from his earlobe to his shoulder. He wasn't on stage, but he certainly represented the Disney image. I joke about his ear decorations but only because there comes a time when one no longer looks cool and just look silly. But even then, I might glance at it and snicker, but I don't let it bother me in the least.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Apparently your apologies are of the same poor quality as your reading comprehension. Of course I'm sure you'll try and twist what I've written here to prove I believe the Earth is flat or some other nonsense.

If you are going to make an offensive comment, own it. If you aren’t prepared to own it or be called out on it, don’t make the offensive comment. There are no “reading comprehension” issues here. You knew exactly what you were doing when you made that comment, and guess what? So do we.

 

[thomas998]

If you are going to make an offensive comment, own it. If you aren’t prepared to own it or be called out on it, don’t make the offensive comment. There are no “reading comprehension” issues here. You knew exactly what you were doing when you made that comment, and guess what? So do we.

No you are just like mergatroid. Unwilling to accept what is said for face value and always trying to see in it what you want to see. Grow up and learn to read what is written. I was pretty clear when I said I thought people with tattoo were trashy, if I thought homosexuals were deviants I would say it plain and simple. I didn't say it because that's not what I think, is that clear enough for you or do you want to pretend to be Carnac the Magnificent and tell me what I'm thinking.

 

[BuddyThomas]

No you are just like mergatroid. Unwilling to accept what is said for face value and always trying to see in it what you want to see. Grow up and learn to read what is written. I was pretty clear when I said I thought people with tattoo were trashy, if I thought homosexuals were deviants I would say it plain and simple. I didn't say it because that's now what I think, is that clear enough for you or do you want to pretend to be Carnac the Magnificent and tell me what I'm thinking.

Uh huh. Sure thing.

 

[larryz]

No you are just like mergatroid. Unwilling to accept what is said for face value and always trying to see in it what you want to see. Grow up and learn to read what is written. I was pretty clear when I said I thought people with tattoo were trashy, if I thought homosexuals were deviants I would say it plain and simple. I didn't say it because that's now what I think, is that clear enough for you or do you want to pretend to be Carnac the Magnificent and tell me what I'm thinking.

Assuming you meant to say "...that's not what I think..."

 

[Ldno]

While I understand where your coming from, I think the idea of professionalism is changing every day. The suit and tie days are long gone for the most part and I know plenty of businesses ranging from the obvious like Tattoo shops and bars to the not so obvious like Best Buy and now Disney World changing their stances on appearances. I think Tattoos for the younger generation are seen as an extension of themselves and their personality. A lot of different businesses and companies are finding that with a more comfortable employee comes better repertoire with the customer and ultimately a better working environment. A person can still dress to impress but not fit the old standard of professionalism you might see in something like Mad Men.

That’s how I see it, a hundred years ago EVERYONE wore suits and fedora hats, that only stuck to businessmen, now it’s time to match with the times otherwise we would still be wearing long jackets with white wigs.

 

[mergatroid]

Assuming you meant to say "...that's not what I think..."

Uh huh. Sure thing.

It's funny because despite him criticising our reading comprehension skills he mistakes 'there' with 'their' and gets complete sentences wrong as per your quote. He then says "Grow up and learn to read what is written" (a word for word quote). If anyone has a lacking of written English and needs to grow up and learn to write, it's him

 

[John park hopper]

Tats seems to be a generational thing and like many things the fad will fade(as well as the tat over the years). Remains to be seen what Disney allows.

 

[Tomi-Rocket]

As someone who is not a huge fan of huge or numerous tattoos and has none (so far) I think people are kidding themselves if they think policies such as showing no tattoos will continue. The trend of getting getting tats is no longer simply a trend and it will become increasingly more difficult to hire those without any or requiring them to cover them. Times are always a-changin’...

 

[BuddyThomas]

As someone who is not a huge fan of huge or numerous tattoos and has none (so far) I think people are kidding themselves if they think policies such as showing no tattoos will continue. The trend of getting getting tats is no longer simply a trend and it will become increasingly more difficult to hire those without any or requiring them to cover them. Times are always a-changin’...

Agreed. The world only spins forward.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Who knew, the death knell for Disney... tattoos