Hong Kong Expansion = Anaheim Expansion?

[Stevek]

You aren't alone.

Booooooooo! BTW, anyone seen Constance in awhile?

 

[mickEblu]

I generally agree, but there are a few things that I truly believe hold enough historic value specifically in Disneyland only that they should be preserved as cultural touchstones.

The Castle, Small World and the Steam Trains.

I'd be very upset if a lot of other things left obviously... I don't even really love Small World as an attraction. But those are living edifices to American culture/the Disney Company/Walt.

Walt would probably be a ******* and change the castle, but he's dead, and we don't really care what he thinks.

I agree with your list of attractions that should be preserved but I would have to add POTC, Mansion, Main Street, pretty much all of the Fantasyland courtyard and surrounding area at DL. Hmmm, then to a lesser extent all of the Mountains, Jungle Cruise and Indy. Enchanted Tiki Room of course and the ROA. Lol ok it looks like I want most of the park to be preserved.

What does that leave ?

I wouldn't be mad at some technological upgrades, better AAs, etc for most of the above. New track for the Matterhorn. Things like that.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Booooooooo! BTW, anyone seen Constance in awhile?

She's around. I saw her on Facebook yesterday.

 

[Disney Analyst]

To be honest nothing should be safe in my opinion. I prefer DL to be in a constant state of creative evolution. To me the worst thing that could ever happen to DL is that any physical element or feature of the park be preserved and deemed untouchable.

I think you could do it in a way where you preserve the base of the castle, even the look, but just make it taller.

 

[yookeroo]

To be honest nothing should be safe in my opinion. I prefer DL to be in a constant state of creative evolution. To me the worst thing that could ever happen to DL is that any physical element or feature of the park be preserved and deemed untouchable.

No sacred cows. Not even the castle.

 

[Andrew_Ryan]

Disneyland, specifically the castle, has cultural signifigance that extends beyond discussions about theme park design. It really should be preserved in the same way we preserve historically significant buildings in other places.

I know what Walt said abouy it not being a museum and all, but we passed that point a long time ago.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I know what Walt said abouy it not being a museum and all, but we passed that point a long time ago.

A lot of people misunderstand the museum and the "Disneyland will never be completed..." quotes. It's obvious Walt Disney did NOT mean anything and everything is up for the butcher and would go at some point. What he meant was things would be added to the park, upgraded, enhanced, changed, etc. Yes, SOME things would go; we saw attractions come and go during the time Walt was alive. But to suggest the man would approve of an entirely different park is far-fetched.

Disneyland is not only a theme park, but an American icon and most definitely a place of historical value. Damn skippy some things should be preserved.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I know this is a touchy subject for some people and I completely respect the viewpoint of those who feel that the castle and other iconic symbols of DL shouldn't be touched. DL is a public enterprise and a cultural institution, and for some it's more of one than the other, so it makes sense that big changes to classic features are controversial.

 

[NobodyElse]

New track for the Matterhorn.

Almost ironically, the primary component that would qualify the Matterhorn for historic protection would be its track.

 

[Phroobar]

There would be blood if Disneyland's castle got the same treatment as Hong Kong's. That new design is even uglier than the TOT retheming.

 

[mickEblu]

Almost ironically, the primary component that would qualify the Matterhorn for historic protection would be its track.

I hear what your saying. Personally, I'm not so much attached to the fact that was the first track of its kind. I'm attached to the Mountain itself. The sounds, sights, yeti, experience overall. I wouldn't be opposed to a complete redo of the track for a better ride experience. With that said, I've read that because of how it was built this would be a huge project.

 

[180º]

I almost don't want to say his, but here goes: I imagine there exists a good way to build a new castle to replace the one we have. The problem is, I don't think there's anyone in WDI, maybe even the world, who could properly do the job.

First of all, you'd have to be good at designing Disney castles, and IMO, Herb Ryman is the single person so far who has managed to design really appealing, tonally perfect Magic Kingdom castles. I love Chateau de la Belle au Bois Dormant, but I still think it's a drastic departure and borderline silly-looking. Don't get me started on Enchanted Storybook Castle. The new HKDL castle looks a little better in the concept art, but when I look closer I see some of the same mistakes made on the Shanghai monstrosity.

That's hard enough, but THEN there's the je ne sais quoi factors. Making up for removing a historical icon, doing the original justice, maintaining the same effect, etc. Impossible? *sigh* Probably.

Personally, topics that interest me more are the practical things about classic Disneyland that are under pressure, like the hub. Nowadays, it's so crowded that we keep the original, smaller walkways at the expense of unbearable crowds. If Disney were to re-build the guest pathways (and do a good job), could the result be an actually better preservation of the feeling of classic Disneyland, more peaceful and easygoing? Or would that still not justify the drastic change? Would it be preferable to cap ticket sales per day, and make Disneyland a more premium experience?

I couldn't tell ya.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I almost don't want to say his, but here goes: I imagine there exists a good way to build a new castle to replace the one we have. The problem is, I don't think there's anyone in WDI, maybe even the world, who could properly do the job.

See and I disagree. France's castle is superb and I find WDW's and TDL's Cinderella Castle's far more iconic, inspiring, and "magical" than DL's. I can't speak on SHDL since I've yet to see it in person. WDI does fantasy theme park castles just fine, however what they've never done well is design a reasonable approximation of the future.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

I think you could do it in a way where you preserve the base of the castle, even the look, but just make it taller.

I think that ship sailed with the 1983 New Fantasyland. They decided not to alter the castle then and I think the decision will likely stand.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

With respect to the so-called "Expansion Pad" on the Eastern side of SWL, my rebel spies report a lot of construction there. A very large service building is going up directly behind the area marked as the queue for the Falcon attraction. It spans the entire back of that block. In addition, utility lines are being put in trenches in a large portion of the NE corner of that lot.

I'm not certain that this is any kind of expansion pad--it appears that it may, in fact, be service area for SWL.

Here is my reasoning. Over the past decades Disney has moved away from integrating backstage facilities into expensive onstage buildings. In the old days they did things at DL like attaching the Inn Between to the back of Plaza Inn/Red Wagon Inn, the Pit Stop under NOS, the new Admin Building on the backside of Primeval World and the old locker rooms on the back of Grand Canyon. As late as 1983 they put offices, a CM break room, food storage, and talent dressing rooms under the Village Haus. At WDW you have not only the vast tunnel and basement system, but also fully functional second stories above Main St. Today you see a plethora of metal clad buildings backstage at DCA housing everything from Entertainment Costuming to Security to banqueting kitchen and support for the parks.

I don't think that what they are building on the Eastern edge of SWL is temporary--I believe it's quite permanent. The best my Bothans can infer is that it will house some combination of SWL Area offices, CM Costuming for SWL (rumored to be more elaborate and diverse than elsewhere) talent and character costuming for SWL, Character Host and PhotoPass deployment, Fantasmic!, and possibly replacement for the demolished Facilities costuming issue that was demolished at Winston Gate.

Obviously, this is all deductive reasoning. CMs I talk to say that little is being shared, even with park managers. But I'm inclined to see the so-called Expansion Pad as more of a permanent service area. YMMV.

 

[lazyboy97o]

A lot of people misunderstand the museum and the "Disneyland will never be completed..." quotes. It's obvious Walt Disney did NOT mean anything and everything is up for the butcher and would go at some point. What he meant was things would be added to the park, upgraded, enhanced, changed, etc. Yes, SOME things would go; we saw attractions come and go during the time Walt was alive. But to suggest the man would approve of an entirely different park is far-fetched.

Disneyland is not only a theme park, but an American icon and most definitely a place of historical value. Damn skippy some things should be preserved.

One of the big conundrums of historic preservation is, "What is preservation?" What version of Sleeping Beauty Castle would be preserved? Should the diorama be removed since it was not there in 1955 or should it be as it all appeared in late 1966? Preservation would mean stopping some level of the very sort of enhancements and plussing that are at the heart of "Disneyland will never be complete."

 

[Californian Elitist]

One of the big conundrums of historic preservation is, "What is preservation?" What version of Sleeping Beauty Castle would be preserved? Should the diorama be removed since it was not there in 1955 or should it be as it all appeared in late 1966? Preservation would mean stopping some level of the very sort of enhancements and plussing that are at the heart of "Disneyland will never be complete."

This is true. It's usually the oldest part of something that is preserved. I do believe the castle walk through and dioramas are good examples of tastefully improving an attraction, in this case the castle.

If I had to pick one thing from the castle that had to be removed, it would be the color scheme. That can definitely go.

 

[SSG]

With respect to the so-called "Expansion Pad" on the Eastern side of SWL, my rebel spies report a lot of construction there. A very large service building is going up directly behind the area marked as the queue for the Falcon attraction. It spans the entire back of that block. In addition, utility lines are being put in trenches in a large portion of the NE corner of that lot.

I'm not certain that this is any kind of expansion pad--it appears that it may, in fact, be service area for SWL.

Here is my reasoning. Over the past decades Disney has moved away from integrating backstage facilities into expensive onstage buildings. In the old days they did things at DL like attaching the Inn Between to the back of Plaza Inn/Red Wagon Inn, the Pit Stop under NOS, the new Admin Building on the backside of Primeval World and the old locker rooms on the back of Grand Canyon. As late as 1983 they put offices, a CM break room, food storage, and talent dressing rooms under the Village Haus. At WDW you have not only the vast tunnel and basement system, but also fully functional second stories above Main St. Today you see a plethora of metal clad buildings backstage at DCA housing everything from Entertainment Costuming to Security to banqueting kitchen and support for the parks.

I don't think that what they are building on the Eastern edge of SWL is temporary--I believe it's quite permanent. The best my Bothans can infer is that it will house some combination of SWL Area offices, CM Costuming for SWL (rumored to be more elaborate and diverse than elsewhere) talent and character costuming for SWL, Character Host and PhotoPass deployment, Fantasmic!, and possibly replacement for the demolished Facilities costuming issue that was demolished at Winston Gate.

Obviously, this is all deductive reasoning. CMs I talk to say that little is being shared, even with park managers. But I'm inclined to see the so-called Expansion Pad as more of a permanent service area. YMMV.

A recent construction permit says: "SW- Frontierland - BLDG 9053/ Wardrobe, Green Room - New Commercial Construction: 10,270 sq.ft of 1 story commercial office building."

 

[180º]

See and I disagree. France's castle is superb and I find WDW's and TDL's Cinderella Castle's far more iconic, inspiring, and "magical" than DL's. I can't speak on SHDL since I've yet to see it in person. WDI does fantasy theme park castles just fine, however what they've never done well is design a reasonable approximation of the future.

I understand that. I include Cinderella Castle as a Herb Ryman design, so I agree with you there. It's still the gold standard, while SBC, while not as breathtaking, is beautiful as well– plus it has that "Walt was here" specialness.

And as I have said before, I love Paris' castle and I think it's beautiful. BUT if I'm being picky, I think it's just a little too cartoony. Personal preference.

 

[Stevek]

To be honest nothing should be safe in my opinion. I prefer DL to be in a constant state of creative evolution. To me the worst thing that could ever happen to DL is that any physical element or feature of the park be preserved and deemed untouchable.

I think there are a few things that are untouchable...Main Street, Castle, Pirates, Mansion, Space Mtn, Tiki, IASW, JC, Mark Twain, Golden Horseshoe, Most of FL...but the rest of Tomorrowland (yes, the subs, autopia, & Star Tours) and Toontown, I'd be ok if something bigger and better came in. The problem will be exactly what do we get in return. If they show the inventiveness of attractions like Pirates and Mansion, great. But if they go full IP with little tie to the actual land...a bit more problematic for me. Bottom line, keep the things that are the heart of what makes Disneyland and fine tune with everything else.