Hollywood Strikes Are Over! - SAG-AFTRA agrees to a deal

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Will Smith took to Instagram to explain that he feels it's a "pivotal moment for our profession" right now.

But not yet pivotal enough for him to learn how to code or learn how to install solar panels.

See, that's where they lose the public. And not just because we now know for sure (like we didn't already suspect) that Smith is an big old bag of phony on his best day, LOL. It's also why the general media has really cut back on their coverage, because it's just not a topic most of America wants to hear about right now. Especially once the actors got involved. It was easier to feel bad when it was just the writers who are definitely underpaid and have been abused the most in the streaming wars.

To begin with, it is very difficult to have empathy for people in the entertainment industry (especially "creatives") when much of the rest of the country is scraping by to survive, our government and political system are under upheaval, etc. (And, if I am being honest, I don't think it helps when such a large amount of product that has come out of "Hollywood" in this ridiculous deluge of content the last few years has, frankly, sucked.)

But, but...wait! This is about "the little people", right? Well, that's where they start to lose the rest of us who see beyond the surface and full-well know that all actors aren't millionaires, and that there are some real grievances and pay disparity that absolutely are valid, etc.

Here's the thing - when 93% of your union makes less than $26K a year, that 93% are not professionals. They are hobbyists. Again, it is very hard to have much empathy because many of us would love to be able to devote ourselves to our creative interests full time and somehow get health care, a living wage, and a pension (??!!) out of it, but that's just not how the real world works. It may seem harsh to say, but if you are devoting yourself full time to perusing acting, and the most you are getting is a day or two of work a year laying on a slab as a background corpse on CSI, then no, you shouldn't expect to be able to live on just that.

Again, it's not that they don't have some very valid complaints - but when you break down the talking points, for the most part they are the same problems nearly everyone has in nearly every industry. Is it right that so many McDonald's employees need food stamps to survive that the company assists them in applying, when the CEO is taking in 20M/year? Pretty much everyone works "for the man" in one way or another. So the most that gets is, "I hear ya!" not, "those poor poor actors!"

Then there is the whole AI thing...that's a lot more to unpack, though, frankly, in terms of the actors, I think it's been overblown. The only likenesses the studios even floated was over background players ("extras"). With the writers, it is definitely more of a complex issue, though.

What's funny is - I think when this is over, one of the big "wins" for the actors is going to be that ask going back, and since it's about "the little guy" it will be seen as a great victory. The joke being, I don't believe the studios actually ever thought it would fly, it was one of those big asks they could then take back to look like they were "negotiating". And everyone will congratulate themselves for doing the right thing.

I don't believe for a second the issue will be totally settled there, though. Truth be told, there really isn't much of a need to have actual background actors on a set, particularly for large theatrical productions. They are all digitally manipulated at this point, and given the complexities of filming things like Marvel films, I can absolutely see why the studios would want to reign in that cost and hassle. I won't be surprised if in ten years, background actors don't exist anymore, in films like those at least. If all they want are digital people, there are millions of people who would line up to be scanned at Wal-mart for a $500 gift card, and sign over their likeness rights gladly - "Hey, I'm gonna be in the movies!"
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Here's the thing - when 93% of your union makes less than $26K a year, that 93% are not professionals. They are hobbyists. Again, it is very hard to have much empathy because many of us would love to be able to devote ourselves to our creative interests full time and somehow get health care, a living wage, and a pension (??!!) out of it, but that's just not how the real world works.

Wow. Your whole post was thought provoking, but I'm taking out this point here above because it's so important.

Just... wow. I hadn't thought of it like that, but you are right. Making less than 26K per year, they are creative hobbyists with other jobs.

Using that analogy, imagine the pension and health insurance I deserve after spending 20 years of my life posting on these forums??? 🤣

And yes, the vast majority of Americans don't care about these strikes, and Hollywood industry types in 2023 are not sympathetic people to many. Instead, the concept of "Hollywood" now is just elitist snobs who look down their noses at middle America and lecture those Midwesterners from awards show podiums and Social Media platforms any chance they can get.

That's not a good long-term strategy to build up a base of sympathy from. 🤔
 

wtyy21

Well-Known Member
Meanwhile, some tweets are telling different perspective about the strike.


Meanwhile, i expected actors to strike in front of Washington DC US Capitol and the White House to demand the government to act against movie studios.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Meanwhile, some tweets are telling different perspective about the strike.


Insufferable is just one of the words I can think of to describe this young lady. :rolleyes:

This kind of bratty nonsense is why movie studio executives are investing in AI, not just to replace background actors with AI generated fakes, but to also replace title role characters with AI generated fakes. Who knew Rachel Zegler existed 5 years ago? (Heck, I didn't even know she existed two weeks ago). So why in the year 2030 when the technology is more advanced could you not program an actress to act in a movie for you? Replace it with a fake human, and once the technology is visually good enough, who would know or care if it was Rachel Zegler or not if the movie is good?

If the Barbie movie didn't exist in 2023 but instead was released in the Summer of 2033, you wouldn't need Margot Robbie to play her. You could just program an actress out of thin air to be Barbie. Lots of money saved there.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
How do the people in this thread live with so much resentment? You just sound like curdled human beings.

I don't know that it's resentment, because I actually giggled at her when I watched her little sound bite.

And just to be clear, I'm laughing at her. But I'm still laughing. 🤣 If I was resentful, I wouldn't be laughing.

These millionaire actors don't rise to the level of resentment from me, it's mostly just eye-rolling giggles at their idiocy.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Insufferable is just one of the words I can think of to describe this young lady. :rolleyes:

This kind of bratty nonsense is why movie studio executives are investing in AI, not just to replace background actors with AI generated fakes, but to also replace title role characters with AI generated fakes. Who knew Rachel Zegler existed 5 years ago? (Heck, I didn't even know she existed two weeks ago). So why in the year 2030 when the technology is more advanced could you not program an actress to act in a movie for you? Replace it with a fake human, and once the technology is visually good enough, who would know or care if it was Rachel Zegler or not if the movie is good?

If the Barbie movie didn't exist in 2023 but instead was released in the Summer of 2033, you wouldn't need Margot Robbie to play her. You could just program an actress out of thin air to be Barbie. Lots of money saved there.
Might I suggest you watch the now 21 year old Al Pacino film Simone -

 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Insufferable is just one of the words I can think of to describe this young lady. :rolleyes:

This kind of bratty nonsense is why movie studio executives are investing in AI, not just to replace background actors with AI generated fakes, but to also replace title role characters with AI generated fakes. Who knew Rachel Zegler existed 5 years ago? (Heck, I didn't even know she existed two weeks ago). So why in the year 2030 when the technology is more advanced could you not program an actress to act in a movie for you? Replace it with a fake human, and once the technology is visually good enough, who would know or care if it was Rachel Zegler or not if the movie is good?

If the Barbie movie didn't exist in 2023 but instead was released in the Summer of 2033, you wouldn't need Margot Robbie to play her. You could just program an actress out of thin air to be Barbie. Lots of money saved there.
No, seriously, this is absolutely a post a well-adjusted human would make. No deep-seated insecurities and hatred at all.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
No, seriously, this is absolutely a post a well-adjusted human would make. No deep-seated insecurities and hatred at all.

So you don't think movie studios are going to try to replace human actors with AI actors? Because I think they are.

And if I was employed in an industry at risk of replacement by AI, I would try to be less bratty than Rachel Zegler is. 🤣
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
So you don't think movie studios are going to try to replace human actors with AI actors? Because I think they are.

And if I was employed in an industry at risk of replacement by AI, I would try to be less bratty than Rachel Zegler is. 🤣
Yeah, look at this bratty woman, trying to get paid fair wages. Doesn’t she know the studio should own her body and it’s labor?

Don’t worry, AI replacing actors and writers is GREAT. Creativity, empathy, and the human soul are vastly overrated. And I’m SURE the billionaires pushing AI will stop before they get to all the people you care about. After all, it has to be easier to use AI to replace writers and actors than to replace store clerks or milk delivery men or middle managers or salesmen. No AI could do THAT.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Yeah, look at this bratty woman, trying to get paid fair wages. Doesn’t she know the studio should own her body and it’s labor?

Miss Zegler got paid many times more money to be the actress in the Snow White movie than the girls being paid to be Snow White in the 3 o'clock parade, or the girls pulling your lapbar down on Snow White dark rides around the world.

Apparently that's not enough for her.

She also wants to get paid top dollar for every streaming minute she's in. She should get paid something for streaming of course, but she just comes off as a bratty millionairess who wants more, more, more for "wearing a dress".

She can, and likely will, be replaced by technology.

After all, it has to be easier to use AI to replace writers and actors than to replace store clerks or milk delivery men or middle managers or salesmen. No AI could do THAT.

Store Clerks: Already being replaced by self-checkout.
Milkmen: And I thought I was old. Those went away 50 years ago.
Middle Managers: With fewer employees (see above) you need fewer managers. But someone, somewhere will always wear Dockers.
Salesmen: Also being replaced by technology, except for big ticket and specialty purchases. But even then, technology has taken over and reduced head count greatly in the past 40 years. I remember when McMaster-Carr had endless 400 page catalogues that only trained salesmen could look through, now they've got a website that can get you 40 pound fasteners sent to a remote bridge site in Appalachia in 36 hours.
 

TsWade2

Well-Known Member
Meanwhile, some tweets are telling different perspective about the strike.


Meanwhile, i expected actors to strike in front of Washington DC US Capitol and the White House to demand the government to act against movie studios.

Man, and I thought she was great in West Side Story! Poor child!😢
 

MoonRakerSCM

Well-Known Member
Hearing the words of our insufferable Snow White makes me wonder-
1) Are there any reports/estimates of her pay? I wonder what it comes out to an hour.
2) Was there a similar outcry/strike when VHS tapes became the norm for films and people were suddenly able to watch movies to their hearts content after a single purchase?
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Hearing the words of our insufferable Snow White makes me wonder-
1) Are there any reports/estimates of her pay? I wonder what it comes out to an hour.

Halle Bailey made $1.5 Million for Little Mermaid. I would assume Miss Zegler got about the same for Snow White.

So if she worked for one year on Snow White and worked an average of 60 hours per week (40 regular, 20 hours OT at 1.5 times her base wage rate), then that would come out to a base wage of $412 per hour.

In comparison, Disneyland currently pays ride operators working Snow White's Enchanted Wish a starting wage of $17 per hour.

2) Was there a similar outcry/strike when VHS tapes became the norm for films and people were suddenly able to watch movies to their hearts content after a single purchase?

I don't remember an outcry, but I wasn't concerned with Hollywood actors pay rates in the 1980's either. I imagine the VCR revolution forced a rethink on residuals and such. But once the customer buys the movie on whichever format is de riguer (Laserdics, VHS, DVD, BluRay, etc.), that consumer can watch it however many times they want without impacting the amount of money the actors got for the film in the first place.

The same should be true for streaming. If I buy a digital copy of Snow White for $20 bucks, Miss Zegler might get a nickel for that. If I rent a digital copy of Snow White for 48 hours, Miss Zegler might get a penny for that. Or so I would assume.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
"Learn To Code" keeps sounding like a better career plan for these strikers...

"Getting paid $900,000 a year to manage artificial intelligence projects for Netflix would’ve been an eye-popping sum even before two of Hollywood’s major unions went on strike.

But now that the Writers Guild of America and SAG-AFTRA are both picketing outside Netflix’s headquarters in protest of low streaming pay and ascendant automation, such a job listing seems acutely emblematic of where the entertainment industry currently stands — and where it’s going.

The “Product Manager — Machine Learning Platform” role, first reported on by the Intercept, offers a pay range of $300,000 to $900,000 for work focused on setting priorities and managing projects related to the streaming giant’s AI software.


And Netflix isn’t alone. Disney Branded Television is hiring for a senior vice president “on the leading edge of technology developments, like artificial intelligence.” Sony is pursuing hires related to AI ethics. And Amazon Prime Video and CBS both are looking to fill AI-related roles of their own, as the Hollywood Reporter recently reported."....
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Halle Bailey made $1.5 Million for Little Mermaid. I would assume Miss Zegler got about the same for Snow White.

So if she worked for one year on Snow White and worked an average of 60 hours per week (40 regular, 20 hours OT at 1.5 times her base wage rate), then that would come out to a base wage of $412 per hour.

In comparison, Disneyland currently pays ride operators working Snow White's Enchanted Wish a starting wage of $17 per hour.



I don't remember an outcry, but I wasn't concerned with Hollywood actors pay rates in the 1980's either. I imagine the VCR revolution forced a rethink on residuals and such. But once the customer buys the movie on whichever format is de riguer (Laserdics, VHS, DVD, BluRay, etc.), that consumer can watch it however many times they want without impacting the amount of money the actors got for the film in the first place.

The same should be true for streaming. If I buy a digital copy of Snow White for $20 bucks, Miss Zegler might get a nickel for that. If I rent a digital copy of Snow White for 48 hours, Miss Zegler might get a penny for that. Or so I would assume.
How much do the studio executives get? Why is your class resentment so selective?
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
Yeah, look at this bratty woman, trying to get paid fair wages. Doesn’t she know the studio should own her body and it’s labor?

Don’t worry, AI replacing actors and writers is GREAT. Creativity, empathy, and the human soul are vastly overrated. And I’m SURE the billionaires pushing AI will stop before they get to all the people you care about. After all, it has to be easier to use AI to replace writers and actors than to replace store clerks or milk delivery men or middle managers or salesmen. No AI could do THAT.
I guess I haven't followed this closely. Is her argument they deserve extra pay for streaming, or that her pay shouldn't be based on theater releases alone? Honestly I don't even know how it works totally. I always thought most actors simply get a base salary and that's the end of it (some higher ups maybe get a small percentage of ticket sales). So are studios trying to argue for a decrease in pay because theaters aren't doing well?
 

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