Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World

[jt04]

Virgin’s Orlando stop will be at Orlando International Airport. The station shell has already been built at the Terminal C site.


Then Universal would have to figure it out and sell Virgin on the idea. Not sure why the City would care about getting people to a new park not in the City.

One reason the city and county might want to see this happen is it could serve the convention center also. This could be a separate line from the Virgin line but originate from the same airport facility.

 

[lazyboy97o]

One reason the city and county might want to see this happen is it could serve the convention center also. This could be a separate line from the Virgin line but originate from the same airport facility.

Proposals for connections between the airport and convention center already exist. They have nothing to do with Virgin.

 

[jt04]

Proposals for connections between the airport and convention center already exist. They have nothing to do with Virgin.

Yes, that is what I said. Maglev maybe.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Yes, that is what I said. Maglev maybe.

The other way.... more like traditional light rail.

 

[jt04]

The other way.... more like traditional light rail.

Did the Maglev people change their mind? (What I am referring to is not the proposed Sun Rail connection.)

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

While nothing is impossible, I highly doubt anyone is going to be able to fund and construct maglev in this country. It’s crazy expensive. There is only one operational maglev in the world, in China.

If Walt was still in control, maglev would have replaced the monorail on both coasts about a decade a go.

 

[Voxel]

While nothing is impossible, I highly doubt anyone is going to be able to fund and construct maglev in this country. It’s crazy expensive. There is only one operational maglev in the world, in China.

If Walt was still in control, maglev would have replaced the monorail on both coasts about a decade a go.

There are 6 or More operational Maglev lines I believe, though none are full hundred mile lines. Seoul's Airport uses Maglev, China has atleast 3. ANd a small 6 Miles Commuter Line in Japan uses Maglev.

 

[jt04]

There are 6 or More operational Maglev lines I believe, though none are full hundred mile lines. Seoul's Airport uses Maglev, China has atleast 3. ANd a small 6 Miles Commuter Line in Japan uses Maglev.

Just to be clear the Maglev proposal for Orlando was from the airport to the OCCC and I-Drive/Uni. So 10-15 miles approximately.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

There are 6 or More operational Maglev lines I believe, though none are full hundred mile lines. Seoul's Airport uses Maglev, China has atleast 3. ANd a small 6 Miles Commuter Line in Japan uses Maglev.

I didn’t realize those others existed, and I’m not really sure why they exist either. They don’t operate at particularly high speeds.... so why bother with the extra $$$?

 

[Voxel]

I didn’t realize those others existed, and I’m not really sure why they exist either. They don’t operate at particularly high speeds.... so why bother with the extra $$$?

I was shocked by the number too. I think many of theme were "research" proposals to see how they deal with the every day strain of real world use. IF an Airport Maglev goes down, it's easier to move guest around than if something like the Shinkansen goes down.

 

[mm121]

Glad to see this thread got renamed.

Since there's NO RAIL PROJECT in the USA that is true HIGH SPEED RAIL at least in the European or Japanese sense.

While it's faster than Amtrak that's mostly due to a slightly more direct route and less stops.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just to be clear the Maglev proposal for Orlando was from the airport to the OCCC and I-Drive/Uni. So 10-15 miles approximately.

AMT’s test track is now littered with shipping containers. Doubt they’re doing anything.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The California HSR project would be, if it ever gets built. Funny enough, you actually have to pay for nice things! Ha.

I’m not sure how much in Europe is actually HSR, anymore than the Acela Express here in the states (tops out at 150, mostly runs 110-125). There’s a few lines that hit and top 200, but they are the exception, not the rule.

Brightline, with a top speed of 125, will be fine for the service they are proposing.

 

[Trackmaster]

California HSR will not be built anywhere near what was the original plan. Mismanagement. The usual stuff in Cally.

AMT project was shot down and it is not happening.

I don't know why everyone has this idea that you need a bullet train? If you are going to make many stops the train will never use its speed. The stops are what takes the longest on a train journey.

A good old fashioned train would do just fine around Orlando with a run down to the coast.

I think that the smartest way to do it would be to create many rails next to each other, and run express and local lines. The express lines would only stop in the major cities once, and the local lines would have stops in smaller cities, and other strategic stops along the way. That way people would only transfer once, and would have a shot of getting to their destination without having to teach an automobile.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

So basically... Amtrak’s north east corridor?

 

[Lensman]

I think that the smartest way to do it would be to create many rails next to each other, and run express and local lines. The express lines would only stop in the major cities once, and the local lines would have stops in smaller cities, and other strategic stops along the way. That way people would only transfer once, and would have a shot of getting to their destination without having to teach an automobile.

So basically... Amtrak’s north east corridor?

Lol with you @TrainChasers!

To add further (what @TrainChasers probably knows even better than me), you don't really need to have separate rails in direction to run express and local. In different sections of the Northeast Corridor, Amtrak runs both their Acela Express high speed rail and their Northeast Regional service on the same tracks. In other sections the Acela has dedicated high speed trackage while the Northeast Regional shares track with NJ Transit or Metro North trains.

Practically speaking, I don't think many people transfer from the Regional to the Acela, vs just staying on the Regional. Part of this may be the difference in trip lengths, but schedules are a factor - it's likely that you may not get there much faster if you wait for the next Acela train vs just staying on the Regional for the remainder of your trip.

But your point is well taken in that you can have your cake and eat it too if you have both regional and express service, assuming the ridership supports both.

BTW, one thing I just noticed is that Brightline is diesel-electric, so the die-hard oil-industry supporters can be in favor of this project without feeling guilty - or at least 95% guilt-free. Brightline uses B5 biodiesel so it's still 95% petroleum-derived.

 

[Trackmaster]

Lol with you @TrainChasers!

To add further (what @TrainChasers probably knows even better than me), you don't really need to have separate rails in direction to run express and local. In different sections of the Northeast Corridor, Amtrak runs both their Acela Express high speed rail and their Northeast Regional service on the same tracks. In other sections the Acela has dedicated high speed trackage while the Northeast Regional shares track with NJ Transit or Metro North trains.

Practically speaking, I don't think many people transfer from the Regional to the Acela, vs just staying on the Regional. Part of this may be the difference in trip lengths, but schedules are a factor - it's likely that you may not get there much faster if you wait for the next Acela train vs just staying on the Regional for the remainder of your trip.

But your point is well taken in that you can have your cake and eat it too if you have both regional and express service, assuming the ridership supports both.

BTW, one thing I just noticed is that Brightline is diesel-electric, so the die-hard oil-industry supporters can be in favor of this project without feeling guilty - or at least 95% guilt-free. Brightline uses B5 biodiesel so it's still 95% petroleum-derived.

But I would hope that eventually if they did this that they could heavily tax and roll cars on these roads, and get so many people on the trains (subsidized) that they could pretty much enough trains on the rails that people could get them on demand. Then it would make sense to take the express most of the way, and transfer to the local line. Unfortunately, I just don't see a corporate model as one that would work. This kind of stuff needs to be done by governments, as its tricky to make them profitable.

 

[jt04]

But I would hope that eventually if they did this that they could heavily tax and roll cars on these roads, and get so many people on the trains (subsidized) that they could pretty much enough trains on the rails that people could get them on demand. Then it would make sense to take the express most of the way, and transfer to the local line. Unfortunately, I just don't see a corporate model as one that would work. This kind of stuff needs to be done by governments, as its tricky to make them profitable.

Never happening in the US. Best you can hope for is hyperloop to replace air routes of less than 300 miles or so.

 

[DisneyCane]

Lol with you @TrainChasers!

To add further (what @TrainChasers probably knows even better than me), you don't really need to have separate rails in direction to run express and local. In different sections of the Northeast Corridor, Amtrak runs both their Acela Express high speed rail and their Northeast Regional service on the same tracks. In other sections the Acela has dedicated high speed trackage while the Northeast Regional shares track with NJ Transit or Metro North trains.

Practically speaking, I don't think many people transfer from the Regional to the Acela, vs just staying on the Regional. Part of this may be the difference in trip lengths, but schedules are a factor - it's likely that you may not get there much faster if you wait for the next Acela train vs just staying on the Regional for the remainder of your trip.

But your point is well taken in that you can have your cake and eat it too if you have both regional and express service, assuming the ridership supports both.

BTW, one thing I just noticed is that Brightline is diesel-electric, so the die-hard oil-industry supporters can be in favor of this project without feeling guilty - or at least 95% guilt-free. Brightline uses B5 biodiesel so it's still 95% petroleum-derived.

What do most trains run on? Aren't diesel electric trains very efficient?

 

[Lensman]

What do most trains run on? Aren't diesel electric trains very efficient?

I think all high-speed rail runs off of overhead electric catenaries. Amtrak's Acela Express does as well.

Shinkansen, TGV, ICE (Germany), CRH (China), KTX (Korea using TGV tech), Spain, THSR (Taiwan using Shinkansen tech), and Turkish (using CRH tech) high speed rail are all electric.

The UK's higher speed HST is diesel-electric, though HS1 and the upcoming HS2 are electric.

Maglev, of course, is all-electric, with the track providing levitation, propulsion, and onboard power via induction.

Diesel electric trains are very efficient, transferring between 30-35% of the energy of combustion to the wheels, but electric trains can be even more "efficient" in the sense that the electricity for their traction motors can be provided directly through the overhead catenary, so:
1. You can generate that electricity more efficiently in a large power plant, though you will have transmission losses. Combined cycle gas can run at 62% efficiency for base loads, plus you're running off of cheap natural gas. It's not worth getting into the operational efficiency of other power generation sources, but they could arguably have even lower operational/fuel cost.
2. The transmission from the catenary and through the transformers runs at 95% efficiency.
3. You don't have to haul around the diesel engine, electric generator, or the diesel fuel.

These efficiencies add up to a lot for high speed rail, where weight matters. I think the weight is less of a factor for freight trains pulling heavy loads, so we'll likely not see significant conversion of freight trains to electric for a long time.