Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World

[AndyMagic]

As of today the plans that have been published have the train ONLY going to the Airport hub.

Well that's unfortunate.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

The WDW stop is not a done deal.

Something that hasn’t come up in this thread. One of the main reasons why Virgin would want the Disney station is to raise money for a economically dubious expansion to Tampa.

 

[Trackmaster]

Something that hasn’t come up in this thread. One of the main reasons why Virgin would want the Disney station is to raise money for a economically dubious expansion to Tampa.

I think it would be nice if it was double or triple tracked with express and local lines. And the stops on the local would go to Lakeland, different parts of downtown Tampa, the Orlando airport, downtown Orlando, different parts of Orlando, Disney, and other convenient areas. And the express stops were just in the city centers and one in Disney too. That way more people would have access to the lines without having to touch a car.

 

[DisneyCane]

This is a big possible factor. I was reading an article talking about the decline of Younger Drivers due to many factors. Cost of Cars, Public Schools removing Drivers Ed, Increasing qualifications to get a license, the cost to buy an instructor to learn how to drive, plus the rise of lyft and uber.

A driving instructor? My dad taught me to drive by spending a few hours is a parking lot and then a couple of weeks of driving around locally and finally on the highway with him in the passenger seat. I taught myself to drive stick shift spending 15 minutes in a friend's car behind a shopping center. Cars are easier to drive now vs 25 years ago. The fact that young people think they need to waste money on an instructor is a problem.

As far as Uber/Lyft, those can definitely replace the need for a high school/college student to own a car. Unless they live and work in a relatively dense city they will need one when they become an adult (which I guess doesn't happen until 45 these days).

Uber and Lyft wouldn't save you any money if large percentages of people used them for commuting. They'd need a fleet sized to take everyone to work during rush hour and sit idle most of the day. Dropping somebody off at work and then driving somewhere to park is very inefficient from both an energy and capital expenditure standpoint.

 

[DisneyCane]

I think it would be nice if it was double or triple tracked with express and local lines. And the stops on the local would go to Lakeland, different parts of downtown Tampa, the Orlando airport, downtown Orlando, different parts of Orlando, Disney, and other convenient areas. And the express stops were just in the city centers and one in Disney too. That way more people would have access to the lines without having to touch a car.

You are describing a government subsidized transit system. No private company could make a profit on that kind of system.

 

[Trackmaster]

You are describing a government subsidized transit system. No private company could make a profit on that kind of system.

I hate to burst your bubble, but there's nothing profitable about passenger rail. Its all heavily subsidized, even the stuff that appears like its privately held. Its an amenity to taxpayers. A private citizen would never pay the fare that would be necessary to not only pay for rail, but also return a sizable profit to the shareholders. They would just get in a plane or get in their car.

 

[jt04]

I hate to burst your bubble, but there's nothing profitable about passenger rail. Its all heavily subsidized, even the stuff that appears like its privately held. Its an amenity to taxpayers. A private citizen would never pay the fare that would be necessary to not only pay for rail, but also return a sizable profit to the shareholders. They would just get in a plane or get in their car.

Depends on the route. Some can be profitable with enough demand.

 

[lazyboy97o]

For a start they say from Orlando to Miami, meaning city centre to city centre, not MCO to MIA (airport to airport). Its a critical difference as those extra few miles from city centre to the airport each end are usually at a lot slower speeds whereas the train should be able to run at its intended top speed for all of the distance.

Virgin’s Orlando stop will be at Orlando International Airport. The station shell has already been built at the Terminal C site.

Maybe this has been answered already but every prior train plan for the Orlando area included a station at the Orange County Convention Center. Is there any word if this new expansion plan will include one there as well? I'm assuming Universal would be joining forces with the city to make sure this happens since Fantastic Worlds will be adjacent to the OCC

Then Universal would have to figure it out and sell Virgin on the idea. Not sure why the City would care about getting people to a new park not in the City.

 

[trainplane3]

A driving instructor? My dad taught me to drive by spending a few hours is a parking lot and then a couple of weeks of driving around locally and finally on the highway with him in the passenger seat. I taught myself to drive stick shift spending 15 minutes in a friend's car behind a shopping center. Cars are easier to drive now vs 25 years ago. The fact that young people think they need to waste money on an instructor is a problem.

I had a instructor because it saved me a pretty penny on insurance. Most don't have one but when it was offered after school for cheap, why not?

And also because I failed my driving test at the dmv for failing to maintain 30mph on a pothole covered road.

 

[Voxel]

A driving instructor? My dad taught me to drive by spending a few hours is a parking lot and then a couple of weeks of driving around locally and finally on the highway with him in the passenger seat. I taught myself to drive stick shift spending 15 minutes in a friend's car behind a shopping center. Cars are easier to drive now vs 25 years ago. The fact that young people think they need to waste money on an instructor is a problem.

As far as Uber/Lyft, those can definitely replace the need for a high school/college student to own a car. Unless they live and work in a relatively dense city they will need one when they become an adult (which I guess doesn't happen until 45 these days).

Uber and Lyft wouldn't save you any money if large percentages of people used them for commuting. They'd need a fleet sized to take everyone to work during rush hour and sit idle most of the day. Dropping somebody off at work and then driving somewhere to park is very inefficient from both an energy and capital expenditure standpoint.

Your being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse. Things are not the same as they were 25 years ago. Many states require you to spend time with a licensed driving instructor in order to get your permit and your license. I do believe this might change when you turn 18 however. There have been discussion from more states to increase the requirements further to get a license/permit. This ISN'T young people wasting their money on an instructor.

 

[Voxel]

I had a instructor because it saved me a pretty penny on insurance. Most don't have one but when it was offered after school for cheap, why not?

And also because I failed my driving test at the dmv for failing to maintain 30mph on a pothole covered road.

I was required to have a instructor.. I could not get my permit until I complete "6" hours of driving time with an instructor.

 

[Voxel]

I hate to burst your bubble, but there's nothing profitable about passenger rail. Its all heavily subsidized, even the stuff that appears like its privately held. Its an amenity to taxpayers. A private citizen would never pay the fare that would be necessary to not only pay for rail, but also return a sizable profit to the shareholders. They would just get in a plane or get in their car.

This is extremely true.. Most lines are subsidize in some way, this doesn't necessarily mean straight cash to the program but it's getting assistance. Like you said it's amenity, and in some areas like I-95 around DC, it's an necessity.

 

[Texas84]

Depends on the route. Some can be profitable with enough demand.

Can you name one?

 

[Voxel]

Can you name one?

^- This.. I can only think of Three Rail Companies in the World that are not subsidized to some extent

 

[Robbiem]

Subsidies and profit are related in some places though. Here in tne uk private companies make profits from the government subsidies they get to run our train services, the irony being a lot of the private companies are owned by foreign governments

 

[DisneyCane]

Your being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse. Things are not the same as they were 25 years ago. Many states require you to spend time with a licensed driving instructor in order to get your permit and your license. I do believe this might change when you turn 18 however. There have been discussion from more states to increase the requirements further to get a license/permit. This ISN'T young people wasting their money on an instructor.

I was not aware of those requirements. As far as I know they don't exist in Florida. I guess they are some kind of jobs creation program for driving instructors. In New Jersey, somebody has to pump gas for you. It is certainly not because the process requires special training!

I wasn't being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse. Just another thing to add to the "how did the world get here" list.

 

[Voxel]

I was not aware of those requirements. As far as I know they don't exist in Florida. I guess they are some kind of jobs creation program for driving instructors. In New Jersey, somebody has to pump gas for you. It is certainly not because the process requires special training!

I wasn't being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse. Just another thing to add to the "how did the world get here" list.

I do apologize for my word selection of Obtuse. I'm dealing with some BS Process shiz at work and I might be taking it out on the Forums.

I was actually looking at Florida, and I was shocked that they did not require it. I'm impressed florida actually has it act together on some things.. But States line NC require it, but are defunding public drivers ed so parents/teens are looking at having to pay for lessons. I found this table, which is fascinating. http://leg.wa.gov/JTC/Documents/Studies/Driver Education_Beth/SummaryStateTable.pdf

 

[Lensman]

A driving instructor? My dad taught me to drive by spending a few hours is a parking lot and then a couple of weeks of driving around locally and finally on the highway with him in the passenger seat. I taught myself to drive stick shift spending 15 minutes in a friend's car behind a shopping center. Cars are easier to drive now vs 25 years ago. The fact that young people think they need to waste money on an instructor is a problem.

I think using personal anecdotal examples to prove points here might be fun, but I think it's mostly ineffective. To prove that, let me talk about me. (see what I did there? Lol)

So I took Driver's Ed in school almost 40 years ago. I think almost everyone who wanted a driver's license in my high school took it. For various reasons, no one in my family was available to teach me. But heck, all of my friends took it because it was free and their parents both worked and had their reasons I guess. Besides, I'm not sure anyone's parents would have been very good at the classroom portion of the class. I ended up getting a private instructor after failing the test the first time - apparently I was "too tentative" in making one of my right turns. My instructor did really help, both in being able to articulate and demonstrate the finer points of driving with confidence, and in giving me tips about some of the ways the DMV testers would try to trick you into failing. Oh, and he taught me to parallel park, which no one in my family knew how to do correctly.

Was this a waste of money? I don't know for sure but I passed the test the second time around, despite the fact that only one person in my family spent half an hour with me, and no one else spent any time helping me.

As far as Uber/Lyft, those can definitely replace the need for a high school/college student to own a car. Unless they live and work in a relatively dense city they will need one when they become an adult (which I guess doesn't happen until 45 these days).

I think Uber/Lyft is a factor, in addition I think parents nowadays seem to spend much more time driving their kids and their kids friends around.

I'm not sure why we're arguing. I don't know for sure why fewer kids nowadays are learning to drive, but the reasons in the article that @Voxel read seem reasonable. @DisneyCane, why do you think that fewer kids nowadays are learning to drive?

Uber and Lyft wouldn't save you any money if large percentages of people used them for commuting. They'd need a fleet sized to take everyone to work during rush hour and sit idle most of the day. Dropping somebody off at work and then driving somewhere to park is very inefficient from both an energy and capital expenditure standpoint.

I thought Uber and Lyft drivers used their own cars?

I do agree that the ridesharing model has some trouble if you force it to address metropolitan areas where everyone lives an hour away from work and goes to work at the same time, but that model is a bit crazy anyway and probably needs additional solutions. No matter how you slice it, someone who wants to live somewhere where they need a car to work or go about their daily life probably isn't a good model for ridesharing solutions. For people who think driving is a bother and would rather be driven around like someone with a chauffeur, they can make adjustments that probably make ridesharing practical and cost-effective.

Plus you never have to drink and drive! Lol but no laughing matter.

I'm pessimistic about the success of Brightline but hope it works out. I also hope they build a stop on the Space Coast where my friend lives so I can visit easily without having to drive down there. Note: I'm pessimistic about that possibility too.

 

[Voxel]

I think using personal anecdotal examples to prove points here might be fun, but I think it's mostly ineffective. To prove that, let me talk about me. (see what I did there? Lol)

So I took Driver's Ed in school almost 40 years ago. I think almost everyone who wanted a driver's license in my high school took it. For various reasons, no one in my family was available to teach me. But heck, all of my friends took it because it was free and their parents both worked and had their reasons I guess. Besides, I'm not sure anyone's parents would have been very good at the classroom portion of the class. I ended up getting a private instructor after failing the test the first time - apparently I was "too tentative" in making one of my right turns. My instructor did really help, both in being able to articulate and demonstrate the finer points of driving with confidence, and in giving me tips about some of the ways the DMV testers would try to trick you into failing. Oh, and he taught me to parallel park, which no one in my family knew how to do correctly.

Was this a waste of money? I don't know for sure but I passed the test the second time around, despite the fact that only one person in my family spent half an hour with me, and no one else spent any time helping me.


I think Uber/Lyft is a factor, in addition I think parents nowadays seem to spend much more time driving their kids and their kids friends around.

I'm not sure why we're arguing. I don't know for sure why fewer kids nowadays are learning to drive, but the reasons in the article that @Voxel read seem reasonable. @DisneyCane, why do you think that fewer kids nowadays are learning to drive?


I thought Uber and Lyft drivers used their own cars?

I do agree that the ridesharing model has some trouble if you force it to address metropolitan areas where everyone lives an hour away from work and goes to work at the same time, but that model is a bit crazy anyway and probably needs additional solutions. No matter how you slice it, someone who wants to live somewhere where they need a car to work or go about their daily life probably isn't a good model for ridesharing solutions. For people who think driving is a bother and would rather be driven around like someone with a chauffeur, they can make adjustments that probably make ridesharing practical and cost-effective.

Plus you never have to drink and drive! Lol but no laughing matter.

I'm pessimistic about the success of Brightline but hope it works out. I also hope they build a stop on the Space Coast where my friend lives so I can visit easily without having to drive down there. Note: I'm pessimistic about that possibility too.

This is the only reason I want Brightline to work. I live on the Space Coast and while it's only an hour and 20 min drive to Disney, its a very bland and boring drive that I'm already spending money on gas and Tolls for. I honestly would hope a train if I could get to Disney even it costs an extra 30 mins each way. That's time I can read, sadly I don't think we are getting a station though the county has set aside land in two locations for one.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

With some extremely rare exceptions, All forms of transit are subsidized. Rail travel, Air travel, as well as interstates, state highways, etc.