Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World

[lazyboy97o]

Not having a lot of experience on the gulf/west coast of Florida, what is the major benefit/need for a rail connection from Tampa to Orlando?

Asking out of ignorance/curiosity as it would seem like all it would be supporting is inter/Florida traffic and you already have I-4, including millions/billions spent on widening that. It wouldn't seem like it would help much with dispersing vacationer traffic, unless there is a big population of people using cars for split stays in Orlando and Tampa, and it seems pretty far such that you have a large population commuting to work between the two cities/areas . Plus the drive itself is what, around 100miles, give or take? I have always thought you get major saving on rail travel either internally in cities, or across longer distances where the speed of the rail help outpace car travel. Here it seems like your almost caught in between.

Widening a highway is often a fool’s errand. Such projects almost never provide the promised relief.

I-4 is pretty much the only connection between the two and is often clogged up.

Brightline wouldn’t just be connecting Tampa and Orlando. They’ll be connecting Tampa, Orlando and Miami.

Brightline’s service between Orlando and Miami isn’t much faster than driving but it keeps selling out because it’s a better experience than sitting in traffic for a few hours. It’s not just about the length of time but the quality of time.

 

[Andrew25]

Not having a lot of experience on the gulf/west coast of Florida, what is the major benefit/need for a rail connection from Tampa to Orlando?

Asking out of ignorance/curiosity as it would seem like all it would be supporting is inter/Florida traffic and you already have I-4, including millions/billions spent on widening that. It wouldn't seem like it would help much with dispersing vacationer traffic, unless there is a big population of people using cars for split stays in Orlando and Tampa, and it seems pretty far such that you have a large population commuting to work between the two cities/areas . Plus the drive itself is what, around 100miles, give or take? I have always thought you get major saving on rail travel either internally in cities, or across longer distances where the speed of the rail help outpace car travel. Here it seems like your almost caught in between.

Locals love to travel between both during the weekends/short trips (Orlando to Tampa for beaches, Tampa to Orlando for the parks, etc.).

I-4 is a pain to deal with and lots of people will do anything to avoid I4 congestion. I-4 connects Tampa to Jacksonville/Daytona as well, so any relief is welcomed that can take people off the road.

Widening a highway is often a fool’s errand. Such projects almost never provide the promised relief.

I-4 is pretty much the only connection between the two and is often clogged up.

Brightline wouldn’t just be connecting Tampa and Orlando. They’ll be connecting Tampa, Orlando and Miami.

Brightline’s service between Orlando and Miami isn’t much faster than driving but it keeps selling out because it’s a better experience than sitting in traffic for a few hours. It’s not just about the length of time but the quality of time.

Brightline is about convenience, not speed, that's kind of their messaging so far. They haven't really dived into the "it's faster than the turnpike", mostly just how comfortable the ride is (which it is).

There's literally no other way to get to and from Tampa, unless they want to build a 2nd highway on top of I4, so the Brightline is a step in the right direction.

 

[Brian]

Locals love to travel between both during the weekends/short trips (Orlando to Tampa for beaches, Tampa to Orlando for the parks, etc.).

I-4 is a pain to deal with and lots of people will do anything to avoid I4 congestion. I-4 connects Tampa to Jacksonville/Daytona as well, so any relief is welcomed that can take people off the road.

I'd rather drive an hour in no traffic than 45 minutes in traffic.

 

[JoeCamel]

It should be 2 different things though - that’s the problem.

Let Brightline build the proposed route to Tampa and then if you can get funding for sun rail to the convention center great!

How about the other way and brightline stops at the convention center and SunRail is extended to DS?

 

[JoeCamel]

Locals love to travel between both during the weekends/short trips (Orlando to Tampa for beaches, Tampa to Orlando for the parks, etc.).

I-4 is a pain to deal with and lots of people will do anything to avoid I4 congestion. I-4 connects Tampa to Jacksonville/Daytona as well, so any relief is welcomed that can take people off the road.


Brightline is about convenience, not speed, that's kind of their messaging so far. They haven't really dived into the "it's faster than the turnpike", mostly just how comfortable the ride is (which it is).

There's literally no other way to get to and from Tampa, unless they want to build a 2nd highway on top of I4, so the Brightline is a step in the right direction.

The problem with locals to the beaches is Brightline would go to Tampa and the only beach in Tampa is closed for sewage many times of the year. Have to have a way to get the extra 20 miles out to the beach

 

[HauntedPirate]

Locals love to travel between both during the weekends/short trips (Orlando to Tampa for beaches, Tampa to Orlando for the parks, etc.).

I-4 is a pain to deal with and lots of people will do anything to avoid I4 congestion. I-4 connects Tampa to Jacksonville/Daytona as well, so any relief is welcomed that can take people off the road.


Brightline is about convenience, not speed, that's kind of their messaging so far. They haven't really dived into the "it's faster than the turnpike", mostly just how comfortable the ride is (which it is).

There's literally no other way to get to and from Tampa, unless they want to build a 2nd highway on top of I4, so the Brightline is a step in the right direction.

A rail connection between Tampa and Orlando also opens up TPA as the more desirable airport to fly in and out of. But the thought of having to drive I-4... Ugh.

 

[Andrew25]

How about the other way and brightline stops at the convention center and SunRail is extended to DS?

Which actually makes more sense.

The 417 goes straight through residential areas (Hunter's Creek, Southchase, Celebration, etc.) and makes far more sense for them to go through here than the 518 which is all industrial/tourism areas between I4 and MCO.

The problem with locals to the beaches is Brightline would go to Tampa and the only beach in Tampa is closed for sewage many times of the year. Have to have a way to get the extra 20 miles out to the beach

True, but I also think it might just be more for convenience than speed.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

How about the other way and brightline stops at the convention center and SunRail is extended to DS?

If Brightline wanted to do that, and it was the cheapest option for them, sure.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Locals love to travel between both during the weekends/short trips (Orlando to Tampa for beaches, Tampa to Orlando for the parks, etc.).

I-4 is a pain to deal with and lots of people will do anything to avoid I4 congestion. I-4 connects Tampa to Jacksonville/Daytona as well, so any relief is welcomed that can take people off the road.


Brightline is about convenience, not speed, that's kind of their messaging so far. They haven't really dived into the "it's faster than the turnpike", mostly just how comfortable the ride is (which it is).

There's literally no other way to get to and from Tampa, unless they want to build a 2nd highway on top of I4, so the Brightline is a step in the right direction.

The first part of that makes sense to me. With weekend trips or short trips, with not a lot of luggage that makes alot of sense, even if the train isn't faster. I am curious do you think that market is big enough to support the investment for the line?

 

[Andrew25]

The first part of that makes sense to me. With weekend trips or short trips, with not a lot of luggage that makes alot of sense, even if the train isn't faster. I am curious do you think that market is big enough to support the investment for the line?

Tampa to Orlando on its own no, but there is a huge market potential for Miami/South Florida to Tampa and vice versa.

MCO also offers more airlines/destinations than TPA, so I'd imagine that's another market of potential riders.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The first part of that makes sense to me. With weekend trips or short trips, with not a lot of luggage that makes alot of sense, even if the train isn't faster. I am curious do you think that market is big enough to support the investment for the line?

Brightline offers bag checking.

Their business plan is not just built on fare revenue. In the tradition of railroads they’re also into real estate development.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Tampa to Orlando on its own no, but there is a huge market potential for Miami/South Florida to Tampa and vice versa.

MCO also offers more airlines/destinations than TPA, so I'd imagine that's another market of potential riders.

I know more about the Miami/Hollywood/Ft. Lauderdale to Orlando connections, and I would agree it seems like that route could have alot of potential. I just wonder if adding the MCO/Tampa route to that is worth the investment, as opposed to the southern route standing on its own.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Brightline offers bag checking.

Their business plan is not just built on fare revenue. In the tradition of railroads they’re also into real estate development.

not sure that brightline offering bag checking helps all that much. So i have to drive and/or get a ride share to the train station in Tampa. Check my bags, then take a train that doesn't save me time, but is for "convenience" to Orlando. Then I get my bags and.....then what. I am now getting a second ride share to a hotel, or maybe if I am at Disney springs, I am trying to get on a bus with my luggage. So I am paying for a train ticket, two ride shares, shlepping my bags in and out of the train twice.....all to avoid a less than 2 hour drive that would have allowed me to go point to point with luggage and give me access to a car to travel within Orlando, assuming i wasn't planning on just staying inside the Disney bubble or at some resort.

 

[Andrew25]

I know more about the Miami/Hollywood/Ft. Lauderdale to Orlando connections, and I would agree it seems like that route could have alot of potential. I just wonder if adding the MCO/Tampa route to that is worth the investment, as opposed to the southern route standing on its own.

Yes, Miami to Tampa travel is huge as well, lots of business travel between both cities. Tampa & Miami metro areas are the two largest population centers in Florida.

 

[lazyboy97o]

not sure that brightline offering bag checking helps all that much. So i have to drive and/or get a ride share to the train station in Tampa. Check my bags, then take a train that doesn't save me time, but is for "convenience" to Orlando. Then I get my bags and.....then what. I am now getting a second ride share to a hotel, or maybe if I am at Disney springs, I am trying to get on a bus with my luggage. So I am paying for a train ticket, two ride shares, shlepping my bags in and out of the train twice.....all to avoid a less than 2 hour drive that would have allowed me to go point to point with luggage and give me access to a car to travel within Orlando, assuming i wasn't planning on just staying inside the Disney bubble or at some resort.

People say the same thing about the current service. If you are not interested then don’t use it. Those who do want to use the service are using it and filling up trains.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Not having a lot of experience on the gulf/west coast of Florida, what is the major benefit/need for a rail connection from Tampa to Orlando?

It’s always a benefit to have more transportation between major cities - especially when that transportation connects with even more cities.

Based on your other replies it doesn’t sound like rail travel is for you, which is fine. But more transportation is good for the state and since Brightline has already proved itself popular because of its branding and “modern” appearance - we know people will use it.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

It’s always a benefit to have more transportation between major cities - especially when that transportation connects with even more cities.

Based on your other replies it doesn’t sound like rail travel is for you, which is fine. But more transportation is good for the state and since Brightline has already proved itself popular because of its branding and “modern” appearance - we know people will use it.

In vacuum sure, more Transporation between major cities can be a benefit. From a personal perspective since I don't live in Florida, I am never going to use a rail service between Tampa and Orlando. I am either flying or driving directly to each destination, the Hollywood to Orlando service though is sometime we are using this fall for a split Hollywood/Disney Trip.

The real question for this though is the financial viability of the Tampa/Orlando rail line worth the investment for its construction? Sure more is better, and if you are not the one paying for it, sure why not have it, but is the juice worth the squeeze. Especially now when cost of money/financing is not that cheap. Even if Brightline is popular for its current routes, that doesn't mean it will have success for this particular route, or that the ROI for this extended line is worth the investment and construction right now.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The real question for this though is the financial viability of the Tampa/Orlando rail line worth the investment for its construction?

Brightline seems to think so… previous politicians also thought so.

For Brightline this connects another major city to their network so I can’t see why it’s not a good idea for them.

 

[Andrew25]

In vacuum sure, more Transporation between major cities can be a benefit. From a personal perspective since I don't live in Florida, I am never going to use a rail service between Tampa and Orlando. I am either flying or driving directly to each destination, the Hollywood to Orlando service though is sometime we are using this fall for a split Hollywood/Disney Trip.

The real question for this though is the financial viability of the Tampa/Orlando rail line worth the investment for its construction? Sure more is better, and if you are not the one paying for it, sure why not have it, but is the juice worth the squeeze. Especially now when cost of money/financing is not that cheap. Even if Brightline is popular for its current routes, that doesn't mean it will have success for this particular route, or that the ROI for this extended line is worth the investment and construction right now.

Same way you are doing a split stay between Hollywood & Disney, others are doing stays at Clearwater beach in Tampa.

There's also a cruise ship port in Tampa that can benefit from being connected to MCO.

If the government can find a way to get a station at Lakeland as well (where cost of living is cheaper), it can benefit a lot of people who travel to Orlando for work if priced right.

 

[homerdance]

In vacuum sure, more Transporation between major cities can be a benefit. From a personal perspective since I don't live in Florida, I am never going to use a rail service between Tampa and Orlando. I am either flying or driving directly to each destination, the Hollywood to Orlando service though is sometime we are using this fall for a split Hollywood/Disney Trip.

The real question for this though is the financial viability of the Tampa/Orlando rail line worth the investment for its construction? Sure more is better, and if you are not the one paying for it, sure why not have it, but is the juice worth the squeeze. Especially now when cost of money/financing is not that cheap. Even if Brightline is popular for its current routes, that doesn't mean it will have success for this particular route, or that the ROI for this extended line is worth the investment and construction right now.

This is the benefit of having a private company do the thing. If it’s financially viable they will do it. If it’s not, thier investors will hold them accountable.

Having politicians decide routes isn’t always the best solution. But there are plenty of people who will ride a train from MCO to Disney vs renting a car or taking a bus. Or take the train from Disney to their cruise ship. It’s not like you don’t have to do transfers and wait in line with other tutors of transportation