Mimi
Active Member
MKeeler makes an interesting point. Could a new flagship resort be more family-oriented? I read all the time about people uncertain of which MK resort to choose because they fear they all may be too boring for the kids.
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Height balloons, this time between TTC and Contemporary
- Thread starter LongtimeReader
- Start date
MKeeler makes an interesting point. Could a new flagship resort be more family-oriented? I read all the time about people uncertain of which MK resort to choose because they fear they all may be too boring for the kids.
Mouse Detective
Well-Known Member
Can someone please tell me what a "height balloon" does?
toolsnspools
Well-Known Member
It floats in the air. :lookaroun
They use them to depict the height of a proposed building. They can take pictures of them from various points/angles and have a reference for how high a proposed building would be.
They use them to depict the height of a proposed building. They can take pictures of them from various points/angles and have a reference for how high a proposed building would be.
BalooChicago
Well-Known Member
Did they turn up in China? No? There are multiple solutions for such situations. Piles are but one technique. Deep foundations such as caissons (drilled piers) are another. Vibro-replacement/stone columns is another. Raft/Matt type foundations are yet one more. The land can be built on. It's only a matter of whether the foundation design required to make it so would be economically viable. The 20 story building I worked on had drilled caissons to 90', my current project (Which is only 5 stories) is to ~75'.
Tom
Beta Return
Right, and these days, caissons or auger-cast-piles aren't that terribly expensive, relative to the cost of the rest of a project.
We built a surgery center about a mile from a quarry, with a portion of the new building being on unsuitable soil. It was only a $6M project, but we poured about 1/3 of the building's foundation pads on top of auger cast piles that we took down to bedrock.
(It turned out that having the building bear on bedrock was better than letting it float on the soil, given that their existing building settles every time they have a big blast in the quarry).
I've read about the piles they installed for SSE and even for some buildings in Tomorrowland. With big enough footing pads (i.e. distribute the load over more soil), and a number of healthy piles or caissons, they can build something that would be impervious to this "sink hole".
Tom
Beta Return
And equally important at Disney, it lets them stand in various places around property, or in the parks, to see if the structures would cause any visual intrusions (i.e. seeing something out of place from a certain themed area).
Tom
Beta Return
I'm not sure if that's actually true, or just an urban legend.
It's definitely true that if you stand across the lagoon from Morocco, the Tower blends in VERY nicely. I don't know how much of that can be credited to great planning, or luck.
But given that ToT was built back when TDO and WDI put effort into things (since it's one of the most thematically impressive things on property), it's probably more intention than luck.
I don't think they needed balloons then. They knew exactly how tall it would be and could eyeball it from Epcot.
John
Well-Known Member
As I sit here and read thru this thread it occurs to me " where will it end"? How many DVC/rooms will this market bear? There are already capacity issues with the parks. They already against what has been stated STILL discounting and giving away food. In and around Disney on 192 you can see remnants of one time hotels.
There comes a point of saturation, Especially when it comes to the top end. Is there someone here who knows the sales numbers on DVC? Do these numbers warrant building hundreds/thousands of more rooms?
I cant help but think about the state of the parks and what is needed to bring them up to speed. And as we have discussed the Poly will need some kind of refurb here in the very near future. But then again TDO was never about priorities.
There comes a point of saturation, Especially when it comes to the top end. Is there someone here who knows the sales numbers on DVC? Do these numbers warrant building hundreds/thousands of more rooms?
I cant help but think about the state of the parks and what is needed to bring them up to speed. And as we have discussed the Poly will need some kind of refurb here in the very near future. But then again TDO was never about priorities.
menamechris
Well-Known Member
If only they had given a crap about such things when the Swan and Dolphin were built...I still cringe...
Mouse Detective
Well-Known Member
toolsnspools and edwardtc, thanks for explaining height balloons. I had never heard of them before.
In a kind of "chicken or egg" theory, you're assuming that if they build more rooms, even more guests will crowd the parks. But is that really the case? I don't think building more hotel rooms necessarily increases the number of people who come. I think it's just a matter of trying to get more existing people who come to stay at a Disney property instead of elsewhere. Quite a few high end hotels have opened in the past few years on Bonnet Creek Parkway (technically off-property) as well as southern I-Drive. They want those guests to stay at a Disney hotel and need capacity for that. And if they can sell the hotel room to them too for tens of thousands of dollars, even better!
In a kind of "chicken or egg" theory, you're assuming that if they build more rooms, even more guests will crowd the parks. But is that really the case? I don't think building more hotel rooms necessarily increases the number of people who come. I think it's just a matter of trying to get more existing people who come to stay at a Disney property instead of elsewhere. Quite a few high end hotels have opened in the past few years on Bonnet Creek Parkway (technically off-property) as well as southern I-Drive. They want those guests to stay at a Disney hotel and need capacity for that. And if they can sell the hotel room to them too for tens of thousands of dollars, even better!
DougK
Well-Known Member
Not to defend JT, but he was misquoted by Doug. JT said finite, fine-ite ... not infinite. It would be impossible for anyone to add an infinite number of anything. Just saying'.
Just to clarify, JT said Disney needs to add a "finite number of high end suites". My comment was meant to point out that it would be impossible to add anything BUT a finite number, they cannot add an infinite number of suites.
flavious27
Well-Known Member
I didn't think they could get higher than 3 or 4 stories on that plot of land.
Tom
Beta Return
Because of sight lines? I'm not being sarcastic...just wondering what you're basing that on.
pamousefan
New Member
[QUOTE=wdw71fan;4965736]
"The entire system would be modernized (funny right?).. but there are considerations to add automation to the trains to be used during the 'business' part of the system (moving trains onto the beamway, switching spurs, during override travel, etc)...
Because they are STUDYING the feasibility of expanding the system further.. Including modifying 'concourse' to accept guests traveling to other destinations.."
With THAT being said about the concourse, has anyone forgotten about a small project called SUN RAIL? Could it be the land where the station would eventually go? What better place to put it than right at the TTC? Just a thought, no evidence!
"The entire system would be modernized (funny right?).. but there are considerations to add automation to the trains to be used during the 'business' part of the system (moving trains onto the beamway, switching spurs, during override travel, etc)...
Because they are STUDYING the feasibility of expanding the system further.. Including modifying 'concourse' to accept guests traveling to other destinations.."
With THAT being said about the concourse, has anyone forgotten about a small project called SUN RAIL? Could it be the land where the station would eventually go? What better place to put it than right at the TTC? Just a thought, no evidence!
Mouse Detective
Well-Known Member
SunRail will initially run from Debarry to Sand Lake Road and the next phase expand north to Deland and south to Kissimmee. The trains will run in what is currently an existing CSX corridor. There are no plans for SunRail to go onto Disney property. Would be great if it did, but it won't.
Gregoryp73
Active Member
Think Dinklesbuhl or anything off of Romantische Strasse in Germany....Brick streets, and the hotel would most likely look like a dozen or so 5 story normal size buildings strung together. I would imagine an Alps style pool area.
Heres a pic I found of Rottenburg...so think of the shops on the right as hotel rooms as an example
http://girovagate.blogspot.com/2010/05/la-romantische-strasse-strada-romantica.html
Here's a good one of dinklesbuhl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File
inkelsbuehl_BW_2.JPGI've been dreaming of this type of hotel for years and it seems based on the current set-up as the only viable addition to SSL.
Although I still think it would go where the boneyard currently sits so it would have a walking entrance to the new FLE.
For those talking about Poly and Aulani, I just got back from this property yesterday...I have to say, that they did a great job. It is absolutely amazing in the main section, and it's too bad that Florida is just too humid to leave the great house at poly open like they do at Aulani. It's one of my favorite themed hotels...while it is pretty far from where the action is at, they picked a really dry side of the island. I didn't see a drop of rain the whole time I was at the resort.
I think the cost would be too great to just demolish Poly and replace it with an aulani style property...Plus the site balloons where in the wrong area for this.
I still think we are going to see a move of the luau cove and possibily a canniblizing of 2 or 3 of the current houses on the west side of Poly....and the addition of DVC at Poly will allow a one by one systematic "total" gut of old houses to make them all new.
flavious27
Well-Known Member
Whenever it has been brought up about putting a hotel where the Venetian was, it has been said that the water table is too high to support a tall hotel.
It wouldn't make as much sense to have that rail line going to the ttc because it would still need to proceed over to tampa. It is part of the problem with the broad street station that the penn rr had in philly.
With a sun rail station on property, it would be near I-4. Disney would run buses from there to all of the hotels. They could also have guests check in at this train station, with their bags being delivered to their rooms while guests would be sent to the parks. They could also have all magical express buses take guests to this new ttc, have them check in and then send them to the parks.
BalooChicago
Well-Known Member
The water table has nothing to do with the height of a structure. The 5 story building I am currently working on has the water table at -5' and the basement goes to -15'.