• Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.

Haunted Mansion to Return with New Enhancements and Magic :(

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I continue to mention black hair because it is still a taboo in this 21st century we're living in. States are literally having to create laws surrounding hair for black people and anti-discrimination, California being the first to do so. Black hair is likely to stand out more when compared to a white or Asian person, who have similar hair, especially when folks are supposed to believe you're a figure from 19th century Marceline, Missouri.

Well, I'm not sure what's taboo about hair. Disneyland has never asked Black CM's to hide their hair, or wear a Shirley Temple wig, or anything like that. Naturals arrived at Disneyland in the early 1970's at the same time they arrived for many Black folks then. Cornrows, braids, and other hairstyles complimentary to Black hair have been seen on CM's for decades now.

I guess I just don't know what a "modern day" hairstyle is for a Black person that isn't allowed in the current guidelines. Or even the old guidelines from the last 20 years or so.

What was it exactly you weren't allowed to do with your hair as a CM that a white girl could have done?

I didn't stay long at all. I was there for a few months. I initially planned to stay after my first semester with the Disney College Program to work my way up through the company, but that changed immediately. It's the second shortest position I've ever held.

Oh, okay. I thought you were a CM there for a few years. My mistake.

At least you realized it was not for you and you moved on. I can think of a couple of businesses I was at where a few people were miserable and complained constantly, and then I found out they'd been there for 20 years! Idiots. 🤣
 

raven24

Well-Known Member
Well, I'm not sure what's taboo about hair. Disneyland has never asked Black CM's to hide their hair, or wear a Shirley Temple wig, or anything like that. Naturals arrived at Disneyland in the early 1970's at the same time they arrived for many Black folks then. Cornrows, braids, and other hairstyles complimentary to Black hair have been seen on CM's for decades now.

I guess I just don't know what a "modern day" hairstyle is for a Black person that isn't allowed in the current guidelines. Or even the old guidelines from the last 20 years or so.

What was it exactly you weren't allowed to do with your hair as a CM that a white girl could have done?
Black hair has been taboo in the United States since the time of slavery, and continues to be, hence the laws.

Your mentioning of black hairstyles is precisely the point I was trying to make. My point wasn't regarding how we can and can't wear our hair, but how our distinct and unique hairstyles look on a Main Street CM that is supposed to look like someone from 19th century Missouri. Someone wearing individuals, box braids, bantu knots, butterfly locs, etc. is clearly going to stand out on Main Street and pretty much everywhere else, with the exception of Tomorrowand, Toontown, and maybe Critter Country.
 

trojanjustin

Well-Known Member
This isn't me saying this, this is hundreds of years of Capitalism saying this. It's just how it works.

I haven't read a post from a single person who claimed "Those darn Sikh's shouldn't be allowed to wear their turbans at work!" And if I did read a post like that, I'd join in the chorus condemning it.

This is primarily about things a CM does before they start their shift to alter their appearance and make customers comfortable. A CM needs to shower and use deodorant, comb their hair, brush their teeth, put on a clean uniform, apply complimentary makeup or grooming aids that enhance their appearance, etc.

CM's also used to have to cover up tattoos (which they'd been doing since that rule got started in the late 1950's, I guarantee you), and men had to do things like remove their gorgeous earrings before they went to work in Frontierland.

Now they don't have to do much of that. Many CM's seem to have judged this as a big win for themselves, likely after chafing under supervision by dorky Dockers-clad managers who enforced all the rules. The CM's seem to think that someone in corporate, that infamous "they" that people always refer to, changed these rules to bring happiness and inclusion and mellow vibes to all of humanity.

They didn't. These rules were changed to widen the labor pool and make it easier and cheaper to fill entry-level theme park jobs.

There's a gazillion rules for characters to follow about what they can autograph (eg they can't sign the front of a baseball cap sporting an baseball team) or what can be in photos (eg Mickey can't be seen in a photo with alcohol). Tons of arguably silly policies. All to keep the Disney brand from being tainted, but Jim from Irvine can sport tattoos showcasing and advertising just about anything, while working on turn of the century Main Street and somehow that's okay? It's just so jarring.

I'm all for Disney updating their look guidelines to be more gender inclusive, given the strides we've made as a culture to better accepting/understanding LGBT issues. However, the fact this is being conflated with CMs now being able to sport any kind of tattoo they want (with the faintest of exceptions) is regretful. They are not the same and they are somehow being lumped into it.

The entire orthodoxy of working at Walt Disney World or Disneyland is that you are not an employee, but rather a cast member who is part of the show. When you are interfacing with guests you are on stage. It's beaten into you from day one. Allowing cast members to become walking billboards has nothing to do with inclusion and everything to with broadening the available labor pool.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Black hair has been taboo in the United States since the time of slavery, and continues to be, hence the laws.

I guess I just can't figure out how any type of hair was "taboo" in either the old DIsney Look rules of the early 21st century, or these new rules for the 2020's.

There were rules about how long hair could be for men, and what color hair could be dyed, or a few rules on how it could be cut and styled (no shaving designs into a scalp, no mohawks, no towering beehives, etc.). But that was about it.

There were no rules specifically for different types of hair in the Disney Look of the recent past, or currently.

Here are the entire Disney Look rules for ladies hairstyles circa 2016, as linked below. And this aligns with what I've seen displayed in the park among CM's of all ethnicities for at least a few decades....

FEMALE HAIRSTYLING
Here are the Disney Look guidelines for hairstyles:
• Hair should be neatly combed and arranged in a classic, easy-to-maintain style. Extreme styles are not permitted.
• Hair below shoulder length should be confined if it falls forward over the face or covers the nametag while working.
• Conservative braided hairstyles without beads or ornamentation are permitted.
• Hair products may be used to create a soft, natural hairstyle within these guidelines.
• Shaving of the head or any portion of the head or eyebrows is not permitted.
• Artificial hair is permitted if it looks natural and meets all of the above requirements



Your mentioning of black hairstyles is precisely the point I was trying to make. My point wasn't regarding how we can and can't wear our hair, but how our distinct and unique hairstyles look on a Main Street CM that is supposed to look like someone from 19th century Missouri. Someone wearing individuals, box braids, bantu knots, butterfly locs, etc. is clearly going to stand out on Main Street and pretty much everywhere else, with the exception of Tomorrowand, Toontown, and maybe Critter Country.

That's not exclusive to Black CM's though. Disneyland is not Colonial Williamsburg, and was never supposed to be. It has always been a theme park that put emphasis on the "show" and a "theme", but never tried to recreate the past exactly. Thus, you had Asian CM's working on Main Street USA in the 1960's even though the census data from Missouri circa 1900 shows that Missouri had exactly 458 Asian people living in the state, and they couldn't even muster 0.1% of the population. You had women wearing modern eyeglasses that never would have been seen in 1905. CM's wore watches that didn't exist in 1905. Etc, etc.

Walt himself also put a robot of President Lincoln on Main Street, even though Lincoln had been shot and killed 40 years before Main Street USA ostensibly takes place.

It doesn't make much sense if you think about it for more than 4 or 5 seconds. All of Disneyland's lands are that way. It's just a theme park. Sunglasses have been allowed since the 1950's. Black employees sporting naturals have been allowed since naturals became a thing for Black ladies in the early 70's. A Hawaiian CM can work at The Emporium. It's all fine.

The only real hangup for the gig historically was that you had to look your best. Shave. Do your hair. Don't have green fingernails. Don't dye your hair purple. Men had to take off their Def Leppard earrings. Women couldn't shave their head like Sinead O'Conner. You had to smile, look cute and fresh and presentable. Smile! It's Disneyland!

 
Last edited:

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
How do sunglasses work on Main Street? Or modern day African American hairstyles?

The "real world" thing that Disney fans love to talk about has never applied to me, personally, which is probably one of the reasons why this decision from Disney to update the CM look doesn't bother me. I'm still in Anaheim when I'm at Disneyland and it doesn't bother me. I can sometimes hear the ongoing traffic when I'm on property and can see much of Harbor Blvd when I'm on the Monorail. I've left the parks to walk to that 7-Eleven and/or Cold Stone down the street for a snack when I didn't feel like spending the money inside the parks. None of it bothers me. None of the CMs on Main Street actually make me feel like I'm legit walking through late 19th/early 20th century Marceline, Missouri. Same goes for the CMs in all the other lands. I'm able to suspend a bit of disbelief, but not to the point where the fakeness actually feels super real. It never does for me because there are too many contemporary things clashing with everything. Again, I'm okay with that.

I'm also coming from the perspective of an ex-CM, who never got paid enough to care greatly about these things and was treated like crap. If the CM pictured still offers great customer service, her tattoo shouldn't eclipse that.

Sure but you have to draw the line somewhere. Also guests aren’t part of the “show.” If I go see a Broadway play I’m not expecting the people in the audience to be dressed according to the theme of the play but I expect the cast to.

All CMs with tattoo sleeves need to be assigned to TL, Adventureland or Galaxies Edge. Better yet assign them all to DCA.

EDIT: did you edit your post? I thought you had something about guests in there. If not, you can disregard about half of my post but either way ^^^thats how I feel.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Just to put a cap on this off-topic discussion of tatted up CM's and historically inaccurate hairdos....

Here's a photo of a smiling CM on Main Street USA in 1962. Disneyland was 7 years old, the company was flush with cash and the rules on running the park had been codified and fine tuned by multiple levels of management and designers. Walt was firmly in charge and the future of the park was bright.

This tour guide CM is leading her charges through Main Street USA, sporting an early 60's college girl hairdo that didn't exist in 1905 and a stylish knee-skimming hemline that was just right for doing The Twist in '62 but that would have gotten her thrown in jail for indecency in 1905 small town Missouri! Harlot! 🤣

5b2a9b405e48ec4a008b4595


Her outfit and her presence on Main Street USA makes no sense thematically or historically to 1905 rural Missouri. But there she is, looking fresh and clean cut and professional. And she fits in perfectly on Main Street USA circa 1962. It's just how this stuff worked. Or at least, how it used to work and how we were trained to think of it.

Disneyland was not a museum, it was a show.
 
Last edited:

raven24

Well-Known Member
I guess I just can't figure out how any type of hair was "taboo" in either the old DIsney Look rules of the early 21st century, or these new rules for the 2020's.

There were rules about how long hair could be for men, and what color hair could be dyed, or a few rules on how it could be cut and styled (no shaving designs into a scalp, no mohawks, no towering beehives, etc.). But that was about it.

There were no rules specifically for different types of hair in the Disney Look of the recent past, or currently.

Here are the entire Disney Look rules for ladies hairstyles circa 2016, as linked below. And this aligns with what I've seen displayed in the park among CM's of all ethnicities for at least a few decades....

FEMALE HAIRSTYLING
Here are the Disney Look guidelines for hairstyles:
• Hair should be neatly combed and arranged in a classic, easy-to-maintain style. Extreme styles are not permitted.
• Hair below shoulder length should be confined if it falls forward over the face or covers the nametag while working.
• Conservative braided hairstyles without beads or ornamentation are permitted.
• Hair products may be used to create a soft, natural hairstyle within these guidelines.
• Shaving of the head or any portion of the head or eyebrows is not permitted.
• Artificial hair is permitted if it looks natural and meets all of the above requirements





That's not exclusive to Black CM's though. Disneyland is not Colonial Williamsburg, and was never supposed to be. It has always been a theme park that put emphasis on the "show" and a "theme", but never tried to recreate the past exactly. Thus, you had Asian CM's working on Main Street USA in the 1960's even though the census data from Missouri circa 1900 shows that Missouri had exactly 458 Asian people living in the state, and they couldn't even muster 0.1% of the population. You had women wearing modern eyeglasses that never would have been seen in 1905. CM's wore watches that didn't exist in 1905. Etc, etc.

Walt himself also put a robot of President Lincoln on Main Street, even though Lincoln had been shot and killed 40 years before Main Street USA ostensibly takes place.

It doesn't make much sense if you think about it for more than 4 or 5 seconds. All of Disneyland's lands are that way. It's just a theme park. Sunglasses have been allowed since the 1950's. Black employees sporting naturals have been allowed since naturals became a thing for Black ladies in the early 70's. A Hawaiian CM can work at The Emporium. It's all fine.

The only real hangup for the gig historically was that you had to look your best. Shave. Do your hair. Don't have green fingernails. Don't dye your hair purple. Men had to take off their Def Leppard earrings. Women couldn't shave their head like Sinead O'Conner. You had to smile, look cute and fresh and presentable. Smile! It's Disneyland!

The taboo comment was general and not in reference specifically to Disney.

Thank you for proving my point, which is some of the CMs don’t 100% make sense in terms of their appearance and where they work and it’s okay. I worked in Fantasyland and none of my hairstyles matched the theme. I’ll even include personal photos of myself to show my various hairstyles (even the fancier photo of myself presents a hairstyle I would still wear even as a casual CM on a regular day).

E961C62C-AA76-4827-8A2B-D1B0F4215594.jpeg


883BBC07-9980-49D9-A13E-41C75D1829AB.jpeg


9D8C6BDF-A57C-4688-85B0-5E2D018379DD.jpeg


Again, I was not an obvious person from whatever century of Bavaria Fantasyland represents, nor a member of a 1940s traveling circus with my hairstyles.

Basically, a visible tattoo on a CM doesn’t distract me from my overall Disneyland experience.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
The taboo comment was general and not in reference specifically to Disney.

Thank you for proving my point, which is some of the CMs don’t 100% make sense in terms of their appearance and where they work and it’s okay. I worked in Fantasyland and none of my hairstyles matched the theme. I’ll even include personal photos of myself to show my various hairstyles (even the fancier photo of myself presents a hairstyle I would still wear even as a casual CM on a regular day).

View attachment 552593

View attachment 552594

View attachment 552595
I don't think any of those hairdo's are inappropriate for CM's.

But more importantly, they do not appear to violate any of the hairdo rules that Disney set forth in their various Disney Look rulebooks from the 2010's. (I linked one from 2016, but many more from other years are available online via a Google search)

That said, that last photo is my favorite! That hairstyle is not only becoming to you personally, but it actually would work well if Disney ever tried to make CM's wear period appropriate hairstyles for their land/location. Disneyland has never done that, again because they were never trying to be a museum, but if we are voting for hairdo's I vote for the last one! :D

Here's a montage of hairstyles on American women circa 1905. I think we can all agree that we've never seen CM's attempt this on Main Street USA, aside from Entertainment Department CM's who are actresses or pro performers in a stage show. But even when they try and dress up a lady performer for a Main Street USA show, like that Halloween pageant thing they did a few years ago, they were never this accurate. Some of these hairstyles just seem so... accurate. They just don't work for Disneyland performers.

Not to mention a few of these do's are just plain ugly. 🤣

26890a8d5ef5dddcfb67c198849158b4.jpg


Again, I was not an obvious person from whatever century of Bavaria Fantasyland represents, nor a member of a 1940s traveling circus with my hairstyles.

Well, no. I don't think Disneyland has ever tried to make its Operations CM's wear hairstyles or grooming standards that were specific to the land or attraction they worked in. Aside from a few one-offs in the 1950's or 60's, like when they tried to get only blonde Alice look-alikes to work the Alice In Wonderland ride when it opened in 1958, or had real Indians working the Indian War Canoes when it opened in 1956. But many books from 20th century Disneyland leaders have explained that those ideas only lasted a short time even when Walt was in charge, before they just got thrown overboard due to the necessities of keeping the park operating.

To get everyone their lunch break, you're just going to have to let a brunette operate Alice In Wonderland. o_O

Was there some expectation in Fantasyland in the 2010's that hostesses tried to theme their hairstyles to Bavaria or a 1940's circus?

I don't remember that ever being discussed online, and it seems as though it would be impossible to manage since there's a half dozen different themes and countries represented by the literature based attractions all within 50 yards of each other in Fantasyland; Germany, Italy, rural Britain and urban London, American Circus, Swiss Alps, etc.
 
Last edited:

KIGhostGuy

Active Member
I love the new lighting, especially in the graveyard. April-December looks great! Kudos to the Imagineers for that. That being said, the cat statue is totally pointless and dumb. Why even install it when you’re not going to put the original intended effect in? It’s just a reference that serves no point other than being a reference.
 

Magicart87

〝𝘙𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘺-𝘖!〞
Premium Member
I love the new lighting, especially in the graveyard. April-December looks great! Kudos to the Imagineers for that. That being said, the cat statue is totally pointless and dumb. Why even install it when you’re not going to put the original intended effect in? It’s just a reference that serves no point other than being a reference.

Are we certain the cat statue (and effect) is complete? I was under the impression that there would be more to come. Cut for time? Budget? There's got to be more to that cat than that! One-eyed Black Cat was on the original HM blueprints, if memory serves. I'm glad to see it return in some capacity but I had expected more.
 

mandstaft

Well-Known Member
The taboo comment was general and not in reference specifically to Disney.

Thank you for proving my point, which is some of the CMs don’t 100% make sense in terms of their appearance and where they work and it’s okay. I worked in Fantasyland and none of my hairstyles matched the theme. I’ll even include personal photos of myself to show my various hairstyles (even the fancier photo of myself presents a hairstyle I would still wear even as a casual CM on a regular day).

View attachment 552593

View attachment 552594

View attachment 552595

Again, I was not an obvious person from whatever century of Bavaria Fantasyland represents, nor a member of a 1940s traveling circus with my hairstyles.

Basically, a visible tattoo on a CM doesn’t distract me from my overall Disneyland experience.
Nice to "SEE" you, raven24! :)
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
No offense to anyone that gets a tatoo, I know many that have some, but it does make finding work more difficult.

I'm not disgusted if someone has a tatoo, it doesn't bother me, but unless I'm on Pirates it doesn't fit in. Not a huge deal, won't ruin my day, just another minor quality control thing gone.

Seeing a man in a dress is something that I also won't enjoy seeing but have to get used to. (No I don't have hate for anyone and their choices at all, just a sight I'm not used to).

I have to agree with Al Lutz ( @TP2000 ) that this is done as a way to get more applicants.

Many businesses in my town are struggling to find minimum wage workers, Disney is likely having the same issue. Easy fix is to raise wages, but doing little things like this may somewhat increase your hiring pool.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Top Bottom