disnyfan89
Well-Known Member
How do you know! Im sorry but, you can't speak for a majority. :wave:
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Haunted Mansion Holiday at MK?
- Thread starter Peaches Magee
- Start date
AEfx
Well-Known Member
You may not like the reasoning behind it or think it's become cliche, but that doesn't make the reasonings any less true. The MK is a wholly different park from Disneyland on so many levels, and regularly closing an attraction to put in a temporary overlay is a much different beast on this coast.
What you fail to take into account is the third part of the equation. It's not just the extensive downtime on each end, nor the fact that MK is not a locals park so people deal with closures better. You miss the ENTIRE point of the HM overlay in the first place at Disneyland - to drum up slow season and attract locals, or those within a days drive. They promote (or used to) the hell out of it in the local area. We don't get ads up here in New England for Disneyland ever, much less an ad promoting this. Disneyland depends on marketing to a very small portion of the country who responds to things such as temporary overlays.
It would do nothing for WDW to put a temporary overlay on an attraction. Walt Disney World does not do this type of specific promotion for individual attractions. Very few people would plan on a specific trip to Disney to just see that, much less the more profitable people (i.e. not passholders). If you find some of the reasons the HM overlay will not be coming to Orlando cliche, I have to say I find the whining about why it should come or ignoring the reasons it doesn't a bit tiring myself. It makes no business sense to do so for them, it only makes sense to fans who want it but don't want to go to Disneyland to get it.
Lee's confirmation about what we already knew is enough for me, though.
AEfx
Not a popular movie?
Don't tell that to those who live the goth lifestyle?
I really don't make a point of getting offended, but without naming names I can count on some pretty ignorant statements every time this subject gets regurgitated. I love the movie. My whole family does. Many of my friends do. A friend of mine who lives in LA has never seen the movie, but loves the overlay at Disneyland. News flash: you don't have to be an angry teen to enjoy it. We don't "stare at our shoes" as another post on this same subject put it. By that kind of reasoning, people who want Song of the South back on DVD must all be racist rednecks! People who think the Aladdin ride is a waste of space must hate Arabs! By golly, cavorting in a park that celebrates a rodent, you must live in a tenement home!!
Can we PLEASE stop the stereotyping?
As for popularity, it's true this movie was not a box office smash, but it has proven extraordinarily popular in the years since. See also: Napolean Dynamite (not that I would make a ride about his adventures...on second thought, maybe)
All that said, do I want the overlay at Magic Kingdom? Nope. As AEfx puts it, there are many marketing factors that would make such a move unrealistic. Besides, every park should have a unique draw. Maybe we could have our own overlay, with characters who pop up every 10 seconds to moan about the wand, Stitch, Imagination, Vacation Club, and Leave a Legacy. SCARY STUFF.
</rant>
Don't tell that to those who live the goth lifestyle?
I really don't make a point of getting offended, but without naming names I can count on some pretty ignorant statements every time this subject gets regurgitated. I love the movie. My whole family does. Many of my friends do. A friend of mine who lives in LA has never seen the movie, but loves the overlay at Disneyland. News flash: you don't have to be an angry teen to enjoy it. We don't "stare at our shoes" as another post on this same subject put it. By that kind of reasoning, people who want Song of the South back on DVD must all be racist rednecks! People who think the Aladdin ride is a waste of space must hate Arabs! By golly, cavorting in a park that celebrates a rodent, you must live in a tenement home!!
Can we PLEASE stop the stereotyping?
As for popularity, it's true this movie was not a box office smash, but it has proven extraordinarily popular in the years since. See also: Napolean Dynamite (not that I would make a ride about his adventures...on second thought, maybe)
All that said, do I want the overlay at Magic Kingdom? Nope. As AEfx puts it, there are many marketing factors that would make such a move unrealistic. Besides, every park should have a unique draw. Maybe we could have our own overlay, with characters who pop up every 10 seconds to moan about the wand, Stitch, Imagination, Vacation Club, and Leave a Legacy. SCARY STUFF.
</rant>
BRER STITCH
Well-Known Member
Why does everyone overlook the simplest fact - that a Holiday overlay can be done WITHOUT the "Nightmare" characters and still be very effective and enjoyable. Especially when I'd venture to say that lots more folks have no idea who the "Nightmare" characters are anyway as time goes on.
How about some completely ORIGINAL characters who "visit" the mansion for the Holidays?!?!?
For a company founded on creative thought and artistic design, why does everyone want to keep borrowing ideas and rehashing old storylines?
GEEZ......
:brick:
How about some completely ORIGINAL characters who "visit" the mansion for the Holidays?!?!?
For a company founded on creative thought and artistic design, why does everyone want to keep borrowing ideas and rehashing old storylines?
GEEZ......
:brick:
AEfx
Well-Known Member
MSTCrow -
Although I have never seen the whole movie (in spite of the fact I owned it on VHS for many years), and am not a fan of NBC, I have to agree, it's pretty evergreen so far in terms of popularity. It's easy to tell this just by Disney's treatment of it in the parks; until Pirates came along, NBC merchandise was everywhere. It still is around, but in many places (i.e. Villians in Vogue at MGM) it has now been largely replaced by the newly popular and exploitable PotC franchise. But that's just in the last year or two; Disney follows the money, and it's clear the merchandise was still selling so interest was there.
WDW just isn't the type of atmosphere that lends itself well to "temporary". Temporary at WDW means a year, year and a half minimum...that's how long it takes for marketing to get the word out and get results. Look at Lucky at AK - people still come asking where he at Guest Relations is because friends came home from WDW and told them all about it, and a year or two later when they come he is no longer around.
We have to remember that doing an expensive overlay like this is a marketing tool, not an altruistic experiment.
AEfx
Although I have never seen the whole movie (in spite of the fact I owned it on VHS for many years), and am not a fan of NBC, I have to agree, it's pretty evergreen so far in terms of popularity. It's easy to tell this just by Disney's treatment of it in the parks; until Pirates came along, NBC merchandise was everywhere. It still is around, but in many places (i.e. Villians in Vogue at MGM) it has now been largely replaced by the newly popular and exploitable PotC franchise. But that's just in the last year or two; Disney follows the money, and it's clear the merchandise was still selling so interest was there.
WDW just isn't the type of atmosphere that lends itself well to "temporary". Temporary at WDW means a year, year and a half minimum...that's how long it takes for marketing to get the word out and get results. Look at Lucky at AK - people still come asking where he at Guest Relations is because friends came home from WDW and told them all about it, and a year or two later when they come he is no longer around.
We have to remember that doing an expensive overlay like this is a marketing tool, not an altruistic experiment.
AEfx
Mansion Butler
Active Member
:ROFLOL:
Seriously, though, the biggest reason for not changing the Mansion for a season at Disney is because so many people go there for their one and only visit during that time of year. WDW wants them to be able to ride the actual ride, not a seasonal mock-up themed off a movie.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I totally get that the customer demographic at Disneyland is different than the demographic at WDW. But some of the excuses I've seen thrown out as to why WDW can't ever offer Haunted Mansion Holiday or Small World Holiday just don't seem to hold much water.
Couldn't it be possible that WDW might want to offer Haunted Mansion Holiday just because it's a fun thing to do that is very popular with customers? That reasoning seemed to work for Tokyo Disneyland, who now does a Haunted Mansion Holiday and Small World Holiday just like the originals at Disneyland?
Fried Chicken
New Member
Your post really holds nothing of substance in my opinion, especially when the Country Bears used to have a holiday show every Christmas until brutal management at the Magic Kingdom scratched it off to save money.
Your post to me almost seems like you're sticking up for the current managements brutal business decisions in the Magic Kingdom. It looks to me like you are supporting the fact that they do nothing and let the park rot to waste. You must realize that still a good chunk of Floridians still do visit these theme parks, it is not all out of state people visiting. Yes, there are more tourists than locals but surprisingly, Disneyland receives about half of their attendance from tourists as well, not just locals, and they still have the Haunted Mansion Holiday, as does Tokyo. It's no surprise that there isn't a Haunted Mansion Holiday in the Magic Kingdom because the management (aka Phil Holmes) is running the place into the ground and wouldn't dare to spend any money to revamp the Mansion.
It makes total business sense to me to do the holiday version becase it could even bring in more locals than before. And the Mansion would only be closed for a very short amount of time to install the effects. I seriously doubt that one closed attraction will make out of states tourists cancel their plans to visit one of the best theme park resorts in the world.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Here's a list of silly reasons and/or excuses I've seen thrown out there over the years regarding why WDW doesn't attempt the big holiday overlays that Disneyland does:
1. Fewer locals and more tourists at WDW compared to Disneyland means WDW can't risk having a popular attraction not operating in its original format. The holiday versions would upset the tourists who came thousands of miles to see the original versions of attractions.
2. Fewer locals and more tourists at WDW compared to Disneyland means WDW can't risk having a popular attraction closed for a few weeks of refurbishment each year during the changeout for the holiday version. Apparently it's okay to close the Haunted Mansion for the three months of summer however. Tourists seem to understand that things will be closed all during June, July, and August. But if you close something for 10 days in January, tourists at WDW get very mad.
3. The contract with Tim Burton only allows Haunted Mansion Holiday to appear in Anaheim. Tim Burton is very worried that Disney will make his characters too popular. (Which doesn't explain Haunted Mansion Holiday in Tokyo. This excuse also can't be applied to Small World Holiday in Anaheim or Tokyo, as the singing dolls don't have the luxury of blaming Tim Burton for not appearing in WDW.) This one is my personal favorite, as people dig it up each year with such conviction.
4. The holiday versions of Haunted Mansion and Small World are artistically inferior and very unpopular. The dramatically longer lines for the Holiday versions year after year after year in Anaheim and Tokyo are only because everyone wants to see how truly horrible the holiday makeovers are.
5. If you eat Pop Rocks and drink a Coke at the same time your stomach will explode. This has nothing to do with why Haunted Mansion Holiday isn't offered at WDW, but it's another of my favorite rumors.
As I said earlier, none of these arguments seem to hold much water in my opinion. With the discontinuation of the Country Bear Christmas Special, I'm of the opinion that the answer is simply WDW management has chosen to not spend the extra money on these popular holiday overlays. It's as simple as trying to save a few bucks.
1. Fewer locals and more tourists at WDW compared to Disneyland means WDW can't risk having a popular attraction not operating in its original format. The holiday versions would upset the tourists who came thousands of miles to see the original versions of attractions.
2. Fewer locals and more tourists at WDW compared to Disneyland means WDW can't risk having a popular attraction closed for a few weeks of refurbishment each year during the changeout for the holiday version. Apparently it's okay to close the Haunted Mansion for the three months of summer however. Tourists seem to understand that things will be closed all during June, July, and August. But if you close something for 10 days in January, tourists at WDW get very mad.
3. The contract with Tim Burton only allows Haunted Mansion Holiday to appear in Anaheim. Tim Burton is very worried that Disney will make his characters too popular. (Which doesn't explain Haunted Mansion Holiday in Tokyo. This excuse also can't be applied to Small World Holiday in Anaheim or Tokyo, as the singing dolls don't have the luxury of blaming Tim Burton for not appearing in WDW.) This one is my personal favorite, as people dig it up each year with such conviction.
4. The holiday versions of Haunted Mansion and Small World are artistically inferior and very unpopular. The dramatically longer lines for the Holiday versions year after year after year in Anaheim and Tokyo are only because everyone wants to see how truly horrible the holiday makeovers are.
5. If you eat Pop Rocks and drink a Coke at the same time your stomach will explode. This has nothing to do with why Haunted Mansion Holiday isn't offered at WDW, but it's another of my favorite rumors.
As I said earlier, none of these arguments seem to hold much water in my opinion. With the discontinuation of the Country Bear Christmas Special, I'm of the opinion that the answer is simply WDW management has chosen to not spend the extra money on these popular holiday overlays. It's as simple as trying to save a few bucks.
Fried Chicken
New Member
You are correct! Those points you listed are the key components to becoming a Disney World manager.:ROFLOL:I'm of the opinion that the answer is simply WDW management has chosen to not spend the extra money on these popular holiday overlays. It's as simple as trying to save a few bucks.
wesTcoastY
Member
Its a great attraction!
AEfx
Well-Known Member
For a posting that holds no substance, it sure did get under your skin enough for you to give an extended reply.
LOL, I said nor implied anything of the sort. Please stop projecting on me. Thanks!
If you guys wanna keep fantasizing, go right ahead. If you want to blame the repair status of the MK on me, go right ahead LMAO.
I simply understand the reasons they do it at Disneyland, and why they don't at the Magic Kingdom. It is unarguable that Disneyland is MUCH more dependent on drawing in locals for things like this in regional promotions, and that is why it makes sense for Disney to do it there.
And you guys can poo-poo the fact that closing even for a month out of the year would be detremental; well ask the people at guest relations at the MK how well that is going right now. The key factor would be that it wouldn't make sense to do it just once, and they'd have to do it EVERY year, which meant for the SAME weeks every year it would have to be closed. And that assumes that everyone who comes while it's actually running is going to be pleased as pie that the famous Haunted Mansion isn't functioning. The MK simply CANNOT support that. Country Bears is no E-ticket, and it certainly wasn't nearly the task that bringing the Disneyland overlay would entail.
So, like I said, fantasies are great. I think it's an odd fantasy - I think it's great Disneyland has something unique like that, that also works with their local market, and find it strange that one would want to duplicate it here. Then again, I wish we had our own Indy ride, so I can identify. (I know you've mentioned Tokyo, but since that's not even owned by the same company I don't think it's fair to compare - they have a lot more money to throw around and too have a larger local market.)
Insult my position all you want; it doesn't make you any more correct. Several people seem to have brought a lot of baggage to this thread (making pre-emptive posts dismissing opinions and facts presented in the past kind of shows a bit of insecurity), and like I said while I can identify with the fantasy and hope aspect, it doesn't change the fact that Disneyland and MK are very different parks, and taking a major E-ticket out for something of little promotional value just isn't in the cards.
You can say that is "defending" current management, but that's inaccurate; it's called business sense and understanding that no matter how much we wish everything Disney does is some altruistic expression of Magic, it just isn't true. I'd much rather them work on PERMANENT changes that EVERYONE can enjoy, not just something that would inconvenience guests to please a small amount of rabid Internet fans that can't get over the fact that Disneyland has something they want. Above I made quite a positive posting about the fact that NBC does have it's fans, but no one but Disney Internet fanatics who just can't let it go actually care about it being a temporary overlay to our Mansion.
You may now resume the hating for Walt Disney Company for not taking your Imagineering suggestion (you know, they recieve many thousands each year) and those that rationally discuss the reasons why such Imagineering suggestion isn't viable - it's not the most productive thing, though. If you really, really care - write a letter to Disney. Taking your resentment that Disneyland has it and we don't out on me isn't going to meet your goal.
AEfx
Fried Chicken
New Member
Yes they are. One is fabulously maintained at 52 years of age and one is being run into the ground that is currently 36 years old.
Not quite. I explained why your post doesn't hold much water.
I blame it on management.
I do to. Disneyland is willing to spend the money and Disney World isn't. While Disneyland refurbishes and renovates their attractions, the Magic Kingdom sits there letting their attractions rot. It's no suprise that they wouldn't want a Haunted Mansion Holiday simply for that reason alone.
Who cares? Honestly, people can really learn to suck it up. I live just as far away from Disneyland as I do Disney World and when I visited Disneyland, 3 major attractions were down. 1)Space Mountain 2)Splash Mountain 3) The Railroad and various other attractions. Did I complain? No because I don't complain about those petty things.
OMG! One ride closed! That's like half of Disney World right there!!!! But in all seriousness, with tons of other rides throughout the resort how on earth can one complain?
So Disney World must never be unique then because it might tick off people who like to complain? God forbid someone try to be creative!
A worker from Disney (a higher up, not an in park cast member) who posts occasionally on another board mentioned that Disneyland's guests are roughly 60% tourists and 40% local. She then states that Disney World is roughly 70 tourist and 30 local. Not much of a difference eh?
If you want permanent changes, wouldn't that mean closing down more attractions for a substantial amount of time as well? Wouldn't that tick off the tourists as well? I smell a contradiction from you there.
If it is only rabid internet fans, please explain the extreme popularity that the Haunted Mansion has when the overlay opens. Is that all of the rabid internet fans? Don't think so.
I am not going to tell them how to run a business. When someone gets seriously injured in the Magic Kingdom from shotty maintenance, I think that can be their wake up call. I am just surprised that you wouldn't want anything unique or creative to come to the World.
Giraffe Lounge
Member
:brick:
The lack of a holiday addition to a particular ride being signs of safety problems due to a lack of maintenance is quite a stretch.
DisneyExplorer
Member
I for one am happy that the NBC overlay is not coming to Florida. Why spend the money on something temporary. Instead of using all of that money for something we don't need to attraction guests, think of what our Haunted Mansion could look like on a permenant basis if that money were put into the normal mansion.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
No contradiction at all, friend. You keep missing a key here, TEMPORARY. It's easier for guests to swallow a closure that will lead to a permanant addition than something they won't see if they don't return in the next couple of months. You don't get this...that your demands and wants are not typical because, as I said, the average guest knows nothing of this overlay, it's something people on the Internet talk about. They don't go to Guest Relations and ask about it. It's a promotional tool used in regional adverts for Disneyland.
You are looking for things that aren't there. Personally, it wouldn't affect me at all if HMH came to WDW. I get to go all the time, I don't care. However, I just seem to be much more keenly aware of how it works down there than you do and I know I am not the typical audience of WDW.
It's only rabid Internet fans that are ASKING FOR IT AT ORLANDO, because no one else knows it exists.
LOL man, you really are obsessed with this, aren't you?
You couldn't be more wrong - yes I want something UNIQUE and CREATIVE at WDW, and HMH is neither.
You fail to understand that it is a COMBINATION of all these factors as to why HMH will not be coming to WDW. It just isn't.
Continue to berate me and fantasize about it if it makes you feel better, but anyone who knows anything about what they are talking about knows that there are no plans to bring HMH to Orlando and the myriad of reasons why.
I'm sorry you are so obsessed with this one thing at Disneyland that you can't see the forest for the trees here. You simply do not seem to understand the operational differences between the parks that make sense for them to do it at Disneyland, but not Walt Disney World.
Those are just the facts. Continue ranting, ignoring them if you must - although, once again, I have to tell you that it doesn't help your cause. Ranting at me about maintainance at Disney (which has gotten remarkably better over the last couple of years, maybe you don't go there often enough to know that) is not only silly but irrelevant. You've already accused me of liking SHODDY (not "shotty") maintainance and other such ridiculous comments, so I'm sure my rational explainations will meet with your deaf ears. But I still try...
AEfx
RequiemBell104
New Member
As much as i'd to see the HMH come to WDW, I agree with you. You couldn't have worded this any better.
iheartdisney91
Well-Known Member
this idea sprung up shorlty after DL got it, if it was meant to be then i think by now we would have found out something. it would be cool. but i think the possibilty is very slim
cdunbar
Active Member
*WHISTLES* "Back to your corner men!" :lookaroun hehe
Neways back on topic, I know plenty of people who do NOT live the goth lifestyle and LOVE NBC! Now I am not saying that I think it should be placed at MK but I am saying that if WDW did u do something to mix it up during X-Mas and Halloween they might get more locals, no I am not stupid I know there are already hard ticket events for these two holidays! My point simply is this having something new for this particular time of year might make others locals included go "hey this is pretty awesome, maybe I will have to go more than my normal once a year to see this overlay thingy..." But do I think WDW will ever do anything to appeal more to its local population, proably not I'm sure the thoughts there are "Hey! they've already got FLA residents rates what more do they want?"
Neways back on topic, I know plenty of people who do NOT live the goth lifestyle and LOVE NBC! Now I am not saying that I think it should be placed at MK but I am saying that if WDW did u do something to mix it up during X-Mas and Halloween they might get more locals, no I am not stupid I know there are already hard ticket events for these two holidays! My point simply is this having something new for this particular time of year might make others locals included go "hey this is pretty awesome, maybe I will have to go more than my normal once a year to see this overlay thingy..." But do I think WDW will ever do anything to appeal more to its local population, proably not I'm sure the thoughts there are "Hey! they've already got FLA residents rates what more do they want?"
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I'd never seen the NBC movie when I went on Haunted Mansion Holiday for the first time in 2001. I knew vaguely that it was a movie from the 1990's about a skeleton guy, or something. All I really knew was what the Disneyland guidemap told me.... "Jack Skellington arrives from Halloweentown and tries to decorate the mansion for Christmas. See what happens when two holidays collide!"
I rode Haunted Mansion Holiday and was really impressed. It was fun and zippy and festive and fit the season and had new animatronics and effects to see in the tired old circa 1969 Haunted Mansion. And to this day I still haven't seen the NBC movie. I know a bit more about Jack Skellington and some of the new animatronics that have been added over the last few years, like the Oogyboogy guy at the end with the wheel of fortune, etc.
Even though I still haven't seen the movie, and have no real desire to, I still think Haunted Mansion Holiday is entertaining.
The Haunted Mansion Holiday at Tokyo Disneyland was great too. And for what it's worth, the Tokyo Mansion is almost an exact duplicate of the WDW version when it comes to the house and the ride path and scenes. While Tokyo Mansion Holiday was a bit different, the Tokyo version was just as great as the Anaheim version. And just as popular in Tokyo too, as the Fastpasses were going fast and the Standby line was two hours long on a weekday in October. I got a Fastpass and did it that way.
I rode Haunted Mansion Holiday and was really impressed. It was fun and zippy and festive and fit the season and had new animatronics and effects to see in the tired old circa 1969 Haunted Mansion. And to this day I still haven't seen the NBC movie. I know a bit more about Jack Skellington and some of the new animatronics that have been added over the last few years, like the Oogyboogy guy at the end with the wheel of fortune, etc.
Even though I still haven't seen the movie, and have no real desire to, I still think Haunted Mansion Holiday is entertaining.
The Haunted Mansion Holiday at Tokyo Disneyland was great too. And for what it's worth, the Tokyo Mansion is almost an exact duplicate of the WDW version when it comes to the house and the ride path and scenes. While Tokyo Mansion Holiday was a bit different, the Tokyo version was just as great as the Anaheim version. And just as popular in Tokyo too, as the Fastpasses were going fast and the Standby line was two hours long on a weekday in October. I got a Fastpass and did it that way.