Hating new rides only because they replaced an older one?

[DarkMeasures]

I have seemed to notice this because it is happening with me for Stitch replacing AE but it seems that people who really seem to hate newer attractions only hate them because they replaced an older favorite attraction. However, I think that would half of the people who hate it, the other half probably just hate the new attractions because it does not fit their taste.

But what can be done? Your favorite ride goes into the dust and you are often left with something completly diferent for better, for worst respecting opinions.

Now I know I am going to have a hard time not hating Stitch, but I will try to enter with an open mind and try to not remember about AE, but maybe I should. But this leaves a good question, did anyone ever hate Mission to Mars for replacing its predeccesor, or anyone hate AE for replacing Mission to Mars?

But that also leaves this observation, even though Mission Space is pretty different to Mission to Mars, it is still basically a modern incarnation of that attraction. Now, with how Mission Space is, then maybe a modern version of Horizons or WoM will be built in the future.

 

[General Grizz]

I think there was resistance to the AE makeover by the realization that the original was such an original ride undertaken by Walt Disney Imagineering. It had an original storyline to the park and original, as well as a memorable set of characters.

Resistance slowly stirred up when, for example, the less-tasteful Enchanted Tiki Room UNM replaced the Tropical Serenade and the classic Diamond Horeshoe Jamboree was replaced by a kid-directed Goofy dance club. (I will say Tropical Serenade needed a brand new show, but was Iago and rap really the way to go??) These shows led some long-time guests to realize that the original theme park characters and shows were being replaced by characters already dreamed up in other Disney departments. And when Figment was nearly sent to "Figment heaven," the creativity and originality of WDI (which has always been successful) seemed to go down the drains, in favor of pre-established characters.

Now, this is just my guess at the first reaction to why the closure of Alien Encounter to bring in Stitch hit a lot of guests hard. Personally, I thought Stitch would be better off at the Tiki Room (in bringing back the Hawaiian, flavor, etc.). And this is why resistence in acceptance may come if Timekeeper is replaced with a "Green Little Men" attraction (who basically have their own attraction next door).

Personally, I am very excited to see the new Alien Encounter. I love Stitch, but I'm not as fond as his galatic friends as I am to the XS-Tech crew, to be personally honest. I will be interested to see Skippy again. . . and to see what WDI does to make this attraction more family-friendly. Time will tell, but, because I don't think this attraction "intrudes" (as compared to Goofy or Tiki Birds, for example, thematically). I'll be at the MK to see this one for sure. This may turn out to be like the current Dreamflight/Buzz situation; I have a greater fondness for Dreamflight, whereas Buzz Lightyear is overall more "fun for all," yet by no means am I against Buzz (which I ride, enjoyably, every visit).

So I don't think it's a matter of hating attractions because it replaced an newer one. I was a HUGE fan of Timekeeper, Dreamflight, Alien Encounter, Circle of Life, Philharmagic, Ellen's Energy, for example, instantaneously, although all are replacements. But when we lose classic showmanship/family experience (ala Goofy's Jamboree) or perhaps the quality (I mean, compare the Mission Space queue to the Horizons ride - see what I'm saying here?), Disney fanatics would get angry.

So this isn't about change. It's about seeing progress in each change that Disney brings about - ensuring that, for example, the quality and essence of attractions aren't underminded by new attractions, but enhanced - whether technologically or creatively.

 

[CaptainMichael]

Sadly, I have no recollection of Horizons, but I must say that the queue for Mission: Space fits the theme, an astronaut training facility. I felt like I was in a space training facility and that is the point. I'm sorry others don't feel that way. Same with Test Track, I just couldn't stand the noise level. I most definitely have no recollection of WoM. I enjoy the new rides, except for Pooh; it's fun to ride or experience something new.

 

[dxwwf3]

I think the resistance to AE is the fact that it was such an original ride undertaken by Walt Disney Imagineering. It had an original storyline to the park and original, memorable set of characters. Resistance slowly stirred up when, for example, the less-tasteful Enchanted Tiki Room UNM replaced the Tropical Serenade (for those who didn't like Iago, although the attraction did need and update) and the classic Diamond Horeshoe Jamboree was replaced by a kid-directed Goofy show led some long-time guests to realize that the original theme park characters and shows (I must admit, the closure of the Diamond Horeshoe is the worst, IMO) were being replaced by characters already dreamed up in other Disney departments. And when Figment was nearly sent to "Figment heaven," the creativity and originality of WDI (which has always been successful) seemed to go down the drains, in favor of pre-established characters.

Now, this is just my guess at the first reaction to why the closure of Alien Encounter to bring in Stitch hit a lot of guests hard. Personally, I thought Stitch would be better off at the Tiki Room (in bringing back the Hawaiian, flavor, etc.). And this is why resistence in acceptance may come if Timekeeper is replaced with a "Green Little Men" attraction (who basically have their own attraction next door).

Personally, I am very excited to see the new Alien Encounter. I love Stitch, but I'm not as fond as his galatic friends as I am to the XS-Tech crew, to be personally honest. I will be interested to see Skippy again. . . and to see what WDI does to make this attraction more family-friendly. Time will tell, but, because I don't think this attraction "intrudes" (as compared to Goofy or Tiki Birds, for example, thematically). I'll be at the MK to see this one for sure. This may turn out to be like the current Dreamflight/Buzz situation; I have a greater fondness for Dreamflight, whereas Buzz Lightyear is overall more "fun for all," yet by no means am I against Buzz (which I ride, enjoyably, every visit).

So I don't think it's a matter of hating attractions because it replaced an newer one. I was a HUGE fan of Timekeeper, Dreamflight, Alien Encounter, Circle of Life, Philharmagic, Ellen's Energy, for example, instantaneously, although all are replacements. But when we lose classic showmanship/family experience (ala Goofy's Jamboree) or perhaps the quality (I mean, compare the Mission Space queue to the Horizons ride - see what I'm saying here?), Disney fanatics would get angry.

So this isn't about change. It's about seeing progress in each change that Disney brings about - ensuring that, for example, the quality and essence of attractions aren't underminded by new attractions, but enhanced - whether technologically or creatively.

You hit the nail on the head.

There are two other points that I want to bring up about the AE replacement.

1. One thing that makes losing AE so much more tough than other replacements is that they are completely changing the tone of the attraction. Dreamflight to Buzz was a family friendly attraction into a family friendly attraction. Mr. Toad's Wild Ride to Pooh was a Fantasyland Dark Ride into a Fantasyland Dark Ride. Now AE to SGE is a teen and adult oriented thrill attraction into a more family friendly attraction. I feel that there needs to be more adult based attractions in the MK and now they are taking one of the most popular ones away?

2. Another thing that makes it tough for me is that SGE is going to look so much like AE. It will still feel like you are in the same setting as AE, but there is a totally different attraction there now. From the 1st preshow into the 2nd preshow (with Skippy still there) and into the final chamber that should look alot alike (except with cannons and different colors). So if you are as big of an AE fan as I am, you are going to constantly be thinking of AE the whole time. The reason is because everything you see reminds you of what it used to be. Test Track and Mission Space look totally different from the attractions they replaced. You can't even tell they were there so nothing there brings back memories. I just don't think I could give SGE a fair chance when you sit in a seat with the harnesses sitting on my shoulders in front of a big tube. But again I am a super fan :lol:

 

[dxwwf3]

But this leaves a good question, did anyone ever hate Mission to Mars for replacing its predeccesor, or anyone hate AE for replacing Mission to Mars?

I'm sure there were some people like that. And I would not have a problem at all if those people chose not to see AE for that reason.

But I also think that the fanbase for Mission to Mars isn't even close to that of Alien Encounter, for what that's worth. But you are probably right. And again I can understand those people.

 

[dxwwf3]

And one OTHER thing that I have failed to mention before in previous threads.

One OTHER reason I do not want to see SGE is because people will not be able to take my opinion of the attraction seriously on here. If I come on here and say I hate it, they are going to say that I wasn't fair. If I say I liked it, but not as much as AE, they will say I am not being fair. So I can't win on that either. :lol:

I am much better off just seeing SGE on my computer instead of in person.

 

[mrtoad]

But when we lose classic showmanship/family experience (ala Goofy's Jamboree) or perhaps the quality (I mean, compare the Mission Space queue to the Horizons ride - see what I'm saying here?), Disney fanatics would get angry.

Are you saying the queue is empty and people are not doing the attraction? I just was not sure what you meant.

I agree with much what you said as well. I believe that Tropical Serenade needed an overhaul and don't think what they did was the correct one. Iago and Zazu are bad but the Tina Turner Goddess was way over the line.

I think that updates are needed as well as replacements sometimes. I hate seeing attractions that were favorites of mine go but I assume that Disney knows if an attraction is not getting enough "hits" and that it needs to be replaced. To me they are good memories so I assume everyone else must love them too, which might not be the case. But when an attraction is removed for something that seems like it is less family or less what I consider a WDW feel I don't like the change.

Also in response to the question about Mission to Mars leaving, I had really liked it as a kid but I did in 1993 and was very dissapointed. My seat did not inflate/deflate, the theatre was empty and it was way outdated. So it really did need to go. Not to say it was not great in it's day but it did not fit the "new" tomorrowland theming.

Not sure if I made any sense here. Iwas trying, but felt I was stumbling.

 

[CaptainMichael]

I never realised that Lilo & Stitch was so popular. It never appealed to me, so I never watched it. I only got to ride Alien Encounter once in my lifetime, I think that some of the effects hadn't been working because I was 11 and it didn't effect me at all. It's a shame that it took 5 years to get back Walt Disney World. I missed the end of some good attractions(from what I hear).

 

[General Grizz]

Are you saying the queue is empty and people are not doing the attraction? I just was not sure what you meant.

Sorry, I was discussing the quality, effort/integrity put into the replacement attractions. I was commenting on how cramped the M:S queue was (with vents and even speakers in sight) versus its predecessor, which had gigantic landscapes built, animatronics, and so much detail.

It's just a whole trust issue. When "heart" is added to an attraction - a warmth added by these details - it shows true integrity. And after all, integrity, I think, is one of the main principles which defines the Disney we all love.

 

[dxwwf3]

I never realised that Lilo & Stitch was so popular. It never appealed to me, so I never watched it. I only got to ride Alien Encounter once in my lifetime, I think that some of the effects hadn't been working because I was 11 and it didn't effect me at all. It's a shame that it took 5 years to get back Walt Disney World. I missed the end of some good attractions(from what I hear).

Lilo and Stitch was a popular movie compared to recent hand drawn films. You know nothing compared to Aladdin or Beauty and the Beast, but it does have it's fans. I personally didn't care for the movie either.

And not everyone thought that AE was scary. I wasn't really that scared the first time I saw it. But, to me, that wasn't the selling point for me. I loved the storyline, the storytelling, and the presentation more than anything. AE was scary in a laugh out loud sort of way, IMO. It never went for a HUGE scare, like something over at Universal's Halloween Horror Nights. It was always done in a playful way. I would compare it to the "Scream" movies. Those films aren't really scary, but they are great films in their own way.

 

[CaptainMichael]

I believe the last traditionally animated Disney film that I saw was Tarzan. You are correct, nothing recent has been up to snuff with Beauty & The Beast, The Lion King, or Aladdin. It's a shame that new films don't get me excited. Pirates of the Carribean is my most recent favorite Disney movie. It is the best thing they have come up with recently, and I thought it would be horrible, but it turned out excellent!

 

[mrtoad]

Sorry, I was discussing the quality, effort/integrity put into the replacement attractions. I was commenting on how cramped the M:S queue was (with vents and even speakers in sight) versus its predecessor, which had gigantic landscapes built, animatronics, and so much detail.

It's just a whole trust issue. When "heart" is added to an attraction - a warmth added by these details - it shows true integrity. And after all, integrity, I think, is one of the main principles which defines the Disney we all love.

Thanks for the clarification. When I did MS in Feb, I did the single rider line and it I walked right on so I really did not notice. Although I really liked the attraction, and I thought special effects-wise a great experience, I know what you mean. I prefer the classic Disney-style attractions like PoTC and HM, SSE, etc. Of all the modern day WDW attractions (which I love or like most of) the only one that to me seems vintage (just newer) is Splash Mountain. It screams Disney. If you were a new guest to the parks and it was your first trip and nobody told you what was original (say first decade) and what was new. You would think it was original, yet attractions such as MS and ToT are pure thrill rides. Good ones but not classic Disney-style.

I could ride HM or PoTC 5,6, 7 times and counting a day when I visit. There is something about them that is timeless.

Does that make sense?

 

[CaptainMichael]

While ToT is a thrill ride, it also screams Disney Imagineering. In terms of theming and story, it's the best one since Splash Mountain. Mission: Space's queue is an astronaut training facility; I do believe that most space training facilities in America have visible vents and such, so in reality, its not that bad. I just don't understand why Horizons had to be demolished when WoL or the Odyssey could have been leveled instead, doesn't make much sense!

 

[mrtoad]

While ToT is a thrill ride, it also screams Disney Imagineering. In terms of theming and story, it's the best one since Splash Mountain. Mission: Space's queue is an astronaut training facility; I do believe that most space training facilities in America have visible vents and such, so in reality, its not that bad. I just don't understand why Horizons had to be demolished when WoL or the Odyssey could have been leveled instead, doesn't make much sense!

Sorry, I did not mean that ToT is lacking in any way in terms of story or theming. I love it very much. I guess the AAs are what I am talking about. They feel like a vintage Disney attraction whether really vintage like PoTC or newer like Splash. I think ToT is one of the best on the property, just a different feel is all.

 

[CaptainMichael]

I see what you are saying, but I don't think AA's would fit with ToT at all. Mission: Space could have used scientist and astronaut animatronics in the queue.

 

[mrtoad]

I see what you are saying, but I don't think AA's would fit with ToT at all. Mission: Space could have used scientist and astronaut animatronics in the queue.

I agree they would not fit at all.

 

[marni1971]

Case in point - Each park had a large selection of for the time state of the art attractions, some of which even today technically and engineering-wise were so impressive. PotC, HM, Splash, Space, SSE, Horizons, WoM, JII, AmAd, GMR, StarTours, ToT. Nothing was dumbed down for todays tv generation, even though corners were cut from the original ideas they were still oh so... Disney! Test Track was the last example of these attractions (Dinosaur also, possible) and now more and more we see Aladdin`s, Meet n Greet`s, Whirls, ride makeovers instead of original ideas (hey... Stitch DOES sound good, but why at the expense of AE?). Even Mission:Space is a shadow of its original idea.

Not vevery attraction had the trademark Disney Audio Animatronic, most did, and now we are seeing whole parks (DLP`s studios) with none - while place like Universal now match Disneys AA`s for realism and complexity. Yes, good rides cost money, but Disney used to be way in front. If you don`t like spending money to build great attractions, you`re in the wrong business.

 

[KevinPage]

. Now AE to SGE is a teen and adult oriented thrill attraction into a more family friendly attraction. I feel that there needs to be more adult based attractions in the MK and now they are taking one of the most popular ones away?:

Since when did Walt Disney design rides for Teens and Adults? The whole slant of Disney was attractions everyone could ride, especially at The Magic Kingdom. AE was out of place for the demograhpics of the park.

People can't have it both ways. They complain that Disney is making too many thrill rides, yet when the attempt to remove one to make it more "family friendly" they get complaints :brick:

 

[Hank Scorpio]

While ToT is a thrill ride, it also screams Disney Imagineering. In terms of theming and story, it's the best one since Splash Mountain. Mission: Space's queue is an astronaut training facility; I do believe that most space training facilities in America have visible vents and such, so in reality, its not that bad. I just don't understand why Horizons had to be demolished when WoL or the Odyssey could have been leveled instead, doesn't make much sense!

Horizons was demolished because the building was structurally unsafe. If I remember correctly it had something to do with the land underneath and the foundations. Didn't they spend millions on the foundations for mission space to make the land usable again? I might be wrong, but i'm pretty sure that's what I read somewhere when this whole topic came up before.

So Disney didn't demolish Horizons just to build Mission Space. They would have had to demolish it anyway.

Come on guys, welcome change! I loved Alien Encounter, and I consider myself honoured that I got to 'ride' it a couple of times. But i'm sure SGE will be an equally good attraction, and in 20 years time someone will be complaining that they are replacing it. Some of you sound like the mother in law that comes round and complains because you moved a picture to another location last time you decorated, and she liked it how it was before even though the old decor looked out of date, was shabby and going yellow around the edges. :lookaroun

 

[ClemsonTigger]

To everything there is a season....

Yes, we've had this discussion before. As has been well addressed already, like the site in general, we have the full range of tastes on this. I personally feel very much as Grizz does. I experienced both MK and Epcot at their start (as well as experiencing Walt introducing and explaining them to me). That is kind of locked in my psyche and any change to that makes me uncomfortable. On the other hand, things do have to change, they can become old, dated or less entertaining. People's taste's change so to survive so must the parks.

Now how do you do that when some love dark rides, some need thrills and some education? Well, I think what we (in a round about way) suggest on this site is a balance, and unfortunately that balance has not been maintained over the years.

There is also the level of theming. I and others need immersion theming, from queue to ride/show to post show. From that angle dinorama, Aladdin's carpets and MS don't cut it (Dumbo is acceptable as a legacy I guess). The other concern are half-assed compromises or reworks like Tiki and Innovations that changed but to what end? Designers (don't want to say imagineers in this thought) didn't have a final goal...and unfortunately met that.

Mature folks like Grizz, myself and others here are not adverse to change, its just the type of change. We can let Horizons go, but for what improvement, where is the improvement in Imagination? I have hopes for Stitch. Even though I believe I will always see shadows of AE, I will try to look at it as a stand alone attraction and judge it on that.

Enough deep thought for today.