News Hatbox Ghost coming to Walt Disney World's Haunted Mansion

[HMF]

Its because the Mansion was literally a compromise between two Imagineers with two different concepts.

That's an oversimplification.

 

[celluloid]

Hate to break it to you guys, but the lore or backstory for the Haunted Mansion is super thin and often bends to whatever project they are working on.

These kind of posts too often feature condescending openers.
You are not teaching anyone anything by saying HM does not have a rich backstory. It is a retirement home for ghosts and we are on a tour.

What it does have with that, is the art of the reveal like the many great magic tricks and world renowned shows of the world. It has intentional art choices that are well documented and studied.

Aspects of this choice, finished that for many, conscience and subconsciously. If it is no concern of you, no need to discuss or disagree until you belittle or hope someone agrees with you.

 

[JD80]

These kind of posts too often feature condescending openers.
You are not teaching anyone anything by saying HM does not have a rich backstory. It is a retirement home for ghosts and we are on a tour.

What it does have with that, is the art of the reveal like the many great magic tricks and world renowned shows of the world. It has intentional art choices that are well documented and studied.

Aspects of this choice, finished that for many, conscience and subconsciously. If it is no concern of you, no need to discuss or disagree until you belittle or hope someone agrees with you.

My condescending opener is only in response to the argument that "my way is right and all the people who worked on these projects are idiots and fools who have no respect for anything and deserve to ridiculed and disparaged because I said so".

So excuse my condescending tone but I believe it's well deserved.

 

[celluloid]

My condescending opener is only in response to the argument that "my way is right and all the people who worked on these projects are idiots and fools who have no respect for anything and deserve to ridiculed and disparaged because I said so".

So excuse my condescending tone but I believe it's well deserved.

I don't think it makes an idiot. What it does is as you say, has been bent to whatever current project is being worked on.

The original pacing of the attraction was certainly disregarded for this new addition.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

When there's a logical reason to be found as I pointed out (and it was reasonable enough that I was able to come up with two possibilities), then yes. Throwing any and all reason out the window as you've been attempting to argue isn't a rationalization. It's simply an act of incompetence and/or laziness on the part of those who have given up and don't care anymore.

This is as comical and preposterous as were your two examples.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It's the same argument that's had in any other genre where these is only surface level lore or backstory. Hop into any video game community when developers make a new addition that doesn't satisfy some "lore" point. They go nuts.

Hate to break it to you guys, but the lore or backstory for the Haunted Mansion is super thin and often bends to whatever project they are working on.

I personally never thought the HM was a linear story at all. To me, there is always a seance going on. There is always ghosts dancing in the ballroom. The ghosts are constantly haunting. The mansion is in a constant state of flux and we just get to get glimpses of it as we pass through.

Its because the Mansion was literally a compromise between two Imagineers with two different concepts.

Indeed. The history of the HM is well known.

There were internal and interminable debates over whether to make it scary-scary or fun-scary. And so, we go a jumbled mix.

Attempts by later imagineers to impose a linear story is nice... but it's like the two movies that try the same thing... it doesn't fix the gags that are logically inconsistent or vary greatly in style and art. But their attempt at logical consistency was doomed to fail unless they were willing to make major changes. Which they didn't.

The graveyard busts and the ballroom and Madame Leota are A+s.

The 13 O'Clock clock, the graveyard mask-on-a-piston, Constance, and the barely visible and often out-of-sync hitchhiking ghosts are Fs.

The HBG is an A as a gag. It's a disappointment that money and effort was put into a new A-level gag while the F-level ones still remain.

And if the ghosts need our sympathetic vibrations to materialize, thanks to Madame Leota's seance, then what enabled Madam Leota to materialize?

 

[Magicart87]

Indeed. The history of the HM is well known.

There were internal and interminable debates over whether to make it scary-scary or fun-scary. And so, we go a jumbled mix.

Attempts by later imagineers to impose a linear story is nice... but it's like the two movies that try the same thing... it doesn't fix the gags that are logically inconsistent or vary greatly in style and art. But their attempt at logical consistency was doomed to fail unless they were willing to make major changes. Which they didn't.

The graveyard busts and the ballroom and Madame Leota are A+s.

The 13 O'Clock clock, the graveyard mask-on-a-piston, Constance, and the barely visible and often out-of-sync hitchhiking ghosts are Fs.

The HBG is an A as a gag. It's a disappointment that money and effort was put into a new A-level gag while the F-level ones still remain.

And if the ghosts need our sympathetic vibrations to materialize, thanks to Madame Leota's seance, then what enabled Madam Leota to materialize?

There's an understood linear progression. There is little story, by design. But the progression or flow is obvious: No ghosts then Madame Leota summons them to materialize for us with a finale of us joining them in a swinging wake. It's a slowburn of scary spookiness to a grand finale of ghostly jubilation.

As for Madame Leota, she hasn't materialized. If she had, she'd be outside of her ball as a life-sized or bodily presence and not as a spirit trapped within her own crystal ball.

It was always an amalgam but it at least had a flow prior to Hatty disrupting things.

 

[UNCgolf]

I don't think HBG's placement has a major effect on the plot/story of the mansion, although of course that's subjective and I'm not suggesting other people are wrong to feel it does.

For me, the sole issue is the effect on the endless hallway scene. It just doesn't work well to have two major effects literally a few feet from each other where riders can really only focus on one.

While I'm glad they did not do this -- I really like the endless hallway and prefer it to the HBG figure -- from a ride design standpoint it would have made more sense to replace the endless hallway with the HBG if they were determined to include the figure (and that was the only place it would work).

 

[lazyboy97o]

For me, the sole issue is the effect on the endless hallway scene. It just doesn't work well to have two major effects literally a few feet from each other where riders can really only focus on one.

And it doesn’t help that you see the Hatbox Ghost first. The placement really does reduce the impact of the Endless Hallway.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

And it doesn’t help that you see the Hatbox Ghost first. The placement really does reduce the impact of the Endless Hallway.

I wonder if switching the suit of armor and HBG was considered, or even possible?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Maybe they could have put HBG on the stairs after load? It's certainly a dark enough space, but not sure enough room.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Indicating the “rule” isn’t a rule at all.

Proving you can rationalize whatever preferences you desire.

More is being disrupted than whether or not the unspoken "rule" was broken and it's been spelled out throughout this thread. Yes, the "rule" is somewhat loose. But there's still issues with pacing, presentation, and cluttering of a famous scene created by this.

 

[JD80]

It's not that famous.

 

[celluloid]

It's not that famous.

Search endless hallway in Google and see what comes up.
It has been represented in 400 million dollars plus of Disney's box office investments.

It's famous.

 

[LittleBuford]

The 13 O'Clock clock, the graveyard mask-on-a-piston, Constance, and the barely visible and often out-of-sync hitchhiking ghosts are Fs.

What on earth is wrong with the clock?!

 

[JD80]

Search endless hallway in Google and see what comes up.

It's famous.

First two responses I get are heavy metal songs. Stretch room is more famous.

 

[Carnotaurus Understudy]

Regarding the pre-seance visible ghosts ("let me out" guy, the hands trying to pry the door open) I feel that they are just a very literal representation of the ghosts being constrained and agitated in their current state.

 

[celluloid]

Regarding the pre-seance visible ghosts ("let me out" guy, the hands trying to pry the door open) I feel that they are just a very literal representation of the ghosts being constrained and agitated in their current state.

Well stated.
A beat sheet is certainly the way to think of the profession
Yeah, they are all having trouble getting through.
-Whenever Candle lights flicker and though the air is deathly still. That is when ghosts are present.
-Coruptable, mortal state. Paintings.
-shadows and marble busts
-foot steps and eyes
-trouble getting through(Bam, new Hattie spot ruins it)
-fully visible, ghost host is not even needed to help us look anymore because all have materialize
-We leave the experience different than when we arrived. A ghost could follow us home and we know there is a retirement home for ghosts.

It's ok if you don't care. The design however is intentional.

 

[VicariousCorpse]

Also, I have a very important question - did they put the Donald Duck chair somewhere else??

The upcoming Haunted Mansion Parlor on the Disney Treasure has it in the concept art. I doubt it's the same one and probably newly built, but still interesting timing.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

This is the kind of change that 10 years from now nobody will complain about. They added an AA. Big whoop. It doesn’t ruin the ride, even if it doesn’t make it much better. Not worth battering the same points again and again