Harry Potter IS making a difference!!

[jstricklin94]

also maybe a total redo on tom sawyers island. its big enough to fit several attractions

 

[flavious27]

also maybe a total redo on tom sawyers island. its big enough to fit several attractions

They would scrap the river boats then because disney would need to have a bridge connecting the island to the frontierland.

 

[thelookingglass]

And HP merch isn't?

No. One of the most impressive things about WWoHP is that the merchandise is all literally identical to how it is in the books and movies.

Every Flavour Beans, for example, are actually all kinds of flavors, some of them disgusting, and the container they come in doesn't say "Universal Orlando", it says "Honeydukes"

The merch is tons of unique stuff like this, and not so much of stuff that reads "The Wizarding World of Harry Potter" (though that stuff is available too.)

 

[T-1MILLION]

No. One of the most impressive things about WWoHP is that the merchandise is all literally identical to how it is in the books and movies.

Every Flavour Beans, for example, are actually all kinds of flavors, some of them disgusting, and the container they come in doesn't say "Universal Orlando", it says "Honeydukes"

The merch is tons of unique stuff like this, and not so much of stuff that reads "The Wizarding World of Harry Potter" (though that stuff is available too.)

A random fun fact that I thought of when I read this as well. When you pay in a card based form for something at the wizarding world, it will not show up as Universal Studios, or Universal Orlando or even The Wizarding World. It shows up as their respectable fictional hogsmeade shops. zonkos, honeydukes, and dervish and banges.

 

[inluvwithbeast]

No. One of the most impressive things about WWoHP is that the merchandise is all literally identical to how it is in the books and movies.

Every Flavour Beans, for example, are actually all kinds of flavors, some of them disgusting, and the container they come in doesn't say "Universal Orlando", it says "Honeydukes"

The merch is tons of unique stuff like this, and not so much of stuff that reads "The Wizarding World of Harry Potter" (though that stuff is available too.)

Those actually exsisted a long time ago. I remember a girl bringing a bag to middle school and everyone got all excited. I was too chicken to try one though. Who really wants earwax? Of course it didn't say they were from Honeydukes. I think they were from Jelly Belly or something. Hmmm... Fun to reflect. Haha.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Id rather Disney were building attractions to satisfy the repeat guest and DVC members they have been hooking in rather than some faux battle with a competitor who doesnt aim at the Disney fixation tween market.

 

[T-1MILLION]

Id rather Disney were building attractions to satisfy the repeat guest and DVC members they have been hooking in rather than some faux battle with a competitor who doesnt aim at the Disney fixation tween market.

You continue to be my favorite poster...

If there is one thing I could add to that, the 'major' editions they add to attract those visitors should already be a clone by opening day at WDW. That would be so choice.

 

[captainkidd]

Is this thread still going on?

 

[jakeman]

Is this thread still going on?

Yes. Yes it is.

You know what I've learned? Pretty much the same thing as every other HP thread:

You must choose a side. You can't simply like both and see pluses and minuses for each. If you don't choose a side the pro-HP crowd here will choose for you.

So to sum up: nothing and it is impossible to have a clear debate because it really always devolves into the same old Disney vs. HP debate.

 

[lebeau]

Yes. Yes it is.

You know what I've learned? Pretty much the same thing as every other HP thread:

You must choose a side. You can't simply like both and see pluses and minuses for each. If you don't choose a side the pro-HP crowd here will choose for you.

So to sum up: nothing and it is impossible to have a clear debate because it really always devolves into the same old Disney vs. HP debate.

Agreed with a caveat. I don't think it's solely the pro-HP/Uni crowd drawing lines in the sand.

 

[Lucky]

So to sum up: nothing and it is impossible to have a clear debate because it really always devolves into the same old Disney vs. HP debate.

Actually it used to be Disney vs. Universal. Now it's Disney vs. Harry Potter?

If so, hopefully Disney will react more constructively than Voldemort did.

 

[jakeman]

Agreed with a caveat. I don't think it's solely the pro-HP/Uni crowd drawing lines in the sand.

No but I think from reading more of these type threads than I should, that they are the quickest and the most vehement to draw that line.

Take the reaction to MontyMon for example. He was immediately pigeonholed for not expressing a glowing review of the area.

If you want to look at WWoHP objectively, it's not that great of a feat to see that they are doing well.

Let's take a look at three areas at WWoHP and perhaps show how unremarkable the success is:

First is merchandise. This is arguably the biggest revenue generator for Uni at the moment. However, if you look at the relative lack of quality, themed Harry Potter merchandise available to the general public I think we can all agree that it is lacking. Especially clothing.

So you put a large amount of licensed unique merchandise never before available for a franchise who so far has amassed billions of dollars in revenue from books and movies alone, of course people are going to buy it. Specifically people who rushed (I used the term loosely) to HP as soon as possible because they are HP fans.

Compare that to even high quality Disney or Star Wars merchandise. In both cases this has been readily available to everyone for decades.

Second is the attractions themselves. FJ truly is a groundbreaking piece of work and no amount of nitpicking can take that away, but Monty is right. If you are looking at it objectively and with the same standards applied to Disney rides, the re-ride ability is low and by the third time it's easy to pick out exposed struts and supports. The other two attractions are nothing more than redresses of existing attractions so nothing is really to be said there.

Will all of that stop people from riding them multiple times? Not really. Just take a look down the road at the broken yeti...

That brings us to the theming of HP. I'm not sure a land could be any more detailed and any less original if it tried. It is giving the fans exactly what they want, but at the same time that involves almost no effort on the part of Uni. You have books full of descriptions and movies to fill in the visual blanks. On top of all that you have the creator herself supervising the whole thing. How can you get that wrong? The detail is amazing yes, and the call backs to the books are great details, but really I don't think the theme could be any more on a silver platter than it is.

FJ is a giant leap forward, but let's not kid ourselves that the rest of the area was a stroke of genius by Uni. It has basically filled a merchandising need and had theming gift wrapped for them.

In all honesty you could have plopped this down anywhere and it would do this well. It is driven by factors outside of Uni's control. Congratulations to them for reaping the rewards, but at the same time it's like going to the beach and congratulating someone when they find the ocean.

 

[lebeau]

In all honesty you could have plopped this down anywhere and it would do this well. It is driven by factors outside of Uni's control. Congratulations to them for reaping the rewards, but at the same time it's like going to the beach and congratulating someone when they find the ocean.

Wow. Just wow.

I believe I am speechless.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

No but I think from reading more of these type threads than I should, that they are the quickest and the most vehement to draw that line.

Take the reaction to MontyMon for example. He was immediately pigeonholed for not expressing a glowing review of the area.

If you want to look at WWoHP objectively, it's not that great of a feat to see that they are doing well.

Let's take a look at three areas at WWoHP and perhaps show how unremarkable the success is:

First is merchandise. This is arguably the biggest revenue generator for Uni at the moment. However, if you look at the relative lack of quality, themed Harry Potter merchandise available to the general public I think we can all agree that it is lacking. Especially clothing.

So you put a large amount of licensed unique merchandise never before available for a franchise who so far has amassed billions of dollars in revenue from books and movies alone, of course people are going to buy it. Specifically people who rushed (I used the term loosely) to HP as soon as possible because they are HP fans.

Compare that to even high quality Disney or Star Wars merchandise. In both cases this has been readily available to everyone for decades.

Second is the attractions themselves. FJ truly is a groundbreaking piece of work and no amount of nitpicking can take that away, but Monty is right. If you are looking at it objectively and with the same standards applied to Disney rides, the re-ride ability is low and by the third time it's easy to pick out exposed struts and supports. The other two attractions are nothing more than redresses of existing attractions so nothing is really to be said there.

Will all of that stop people from riding them multiple times? Not really. Just take a look down the road at the broken yeti...

That brings us to the theming of HP. I'm not sure a land could be any more detailed and any less original if it tried. It is giving the fans exactly what they want, but at the same time that involves almost no effort on the part of Uni. You have books full of descriptions and movies to fill in the visual blanks. On top of all that you have the creator herself supervising the whole thing. How can you get that wrong? The detail is amazing yes, and the call backs to the books are great details, but really I don't think the theme could be any more on a silver platter than it is.

FJ is a giant leap forward, but let's not kid ourselves that the rest of the area was a stroke of genius by Uni. It has basically filled a merchandising need and had theming gift wrapped for them.

In all honesty you could have plopped this down anywhere and it would do this well. It is driven by factors outside of Uni's control. Congratulations to them for reaping the rewards, but at the same time it's like going to the beach and congratulating someone when they find the ocean.

But isn't that the point of the whole thing? That Uni saw the importance of landing the franchise, when Disney was reportedly happy they didn't win the rights?

To me, the point is that Disney made what could be a GIANT mis-step... Thinking they didn't want/need the boy wizard... Where Uni was smart/bold enough to take the plunge. Beyond that, it's having an effect on attendance that I believe was underestimated. I've got to imagine TDO is beside themselves over merch sales as well... What with people waiting in huge lines just to get into a store to spend money.

I didn't really follow your ocean analogy... But what I DO know is that I'd be plenty happy if I somehow was able to buy it and charge you $5 every time you looked at it... And I'd laugh at those that didn't think of doing it before me. :drevil::lol:

 

[pax_65]

However, make no mistake, Potter and whatever expansion they make to it will continue to either extend people's vacations or take a day or two away from their Disney plans for several years.

I agree. And I wonder just how much $$$ we're talking about in that statement. Some people may extend their vacations to see Uni. I think most (like me) will take a day or two away from Disney to do Uni - and probably the majority of them don't typically do Universal on their Disney trips.

When you factor ticket prices, food, merchandise, etc. for the average family, I wonder what that $ is - then multiplied over the number of families and park days affected.

Then you subtract that number by the increased traffic to the Orlando area that WWoHP brings - and most of those people will probably hit Disney too, which is a gain for the mouse.

Still, I have to think the net number is a significant hit for Disney. And I'm not even sure building new attractions would completely solve that problem, but I believe it would definitely help stop the bleeding.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Universal might not have burned much brain power in translating an existing successful franchise, but Disney isn't exactly a font of creative triumphs lately.

The current big doing at WDW is an expansion centerpieced by a ride based on a movie from 1989...a ride that itself is being cloned from another Disney park. (And before anyone says it, I know FLE isn't Disney's "answer" to HP. But it's the biggest thing we have to talk about at the moment.)

Has WDW done anything truly creative since Expedition Everest?

 

[jakeman]

Wow. Just wow.

I believe I am speechless.

So that's it? A well rationed argument as to why HP isn't the second coming and that's the response?

The HP area is great, but the point is, it would have been great anywhere.

Heck Splendid China would have seen skyrocketing attendance (if it still existed) if they had added HP there.

But isn't that the point of the whole thing? That Uni saw the importance of landing the franchise, when Disney was reportedly happy they didn't win the rights?

To me, the point is that Disney made what could be a GIANT mis-step... Thinking they didn't want/need the boy wizard... Where Uni was smart/bold enough to take the plunge. Beyond that, it's having an effect on attendance that I believe was underestimated. I've got to imagine TDO is beside themselves over merch sales as well... What with people waiting in huge lines just to get into a store to spend money.

I didn't really follow your ocean analogy... But what I DO know is that I'd be plenty happy if I somehow was able to buy it and charge you $5 every time you looked at it... And I'd laugh at those that didn't think of doing it before me. :drevil::lol:

Let's not get too caught up in the "waiting in huge lines just to get into a store" thing. That is pretty much the fire marshal talking there considering each store is about the size of your local Subway.

Once we managed the crowds and got to the register there was never really more than two or three people in front of us. I don't want to minimize the importance of the merchandise. It's there and it's great, but stores being packed is more of an artifact of design rather than popularity.

As for Disney making a mistake, I think that is a no-brainer to say that they did. However, I think they are smart right now riding it out as opposed to scrambling to counteract it. Whether that is intentional or not really is debatable.

Interesting caveat to the ocean analogy and it rings true. Basically, I was saying that we really shouldn't pat Uni on the back as much as some people are. HP was delivered on a silver platter to both Disney and Uni. Uni was the one that decided to pay the waiter.

Universal might not have burned much brain power in translating an existing successful franchise, but Disney isn't exactly a font of creative triumphs lately.

The current big doing at WDW is an expansion centerpieced by a ride based on a movie from 1989...a ride that itself is being cloned from another Disney park. (And before anyone says it, I know FLE isn't Disney's "answer" to HP. But it's the biggest thing we have to talk about at the moment.)

Has WDW done anything truly creative since Expedition Everest?

I never claimed that they were. Interjecting that into this discussion seems irrelevant though.

However to entertain that line of thought, I think most of us agree that retrospectively Disney should have bolstered its offerings in 2008 and 2009 for each park. The appeal of having something "new" without the appearance of direct competition I think would have gone a long way towards stemming what we are seeing now.

On the other hand, the internet has been convinced that HP was perfect before the first stone was laid. I have a feeling that regardless of what Disney would have done, we would be having this same conversation.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

I never claimed that they were. Interjecting that into this discussion seems irrelevant though.

It seems relevant to me...at least insofar that Universal has done something that at least matches (and probably exceeds) the standards we've come to expect from their biggest competitor lately.

 

[lebeau]

So that's it? A well rationed argument as to why HP isn't the second coming and that's the response?

The HP area is great, but the point is, it would have been great anywhere.

Heck Splendid China would have seen skyrocketing attendance (if it still existed) if they had added HP there.

I honestly had no idea how to respond to your post and still don't. I guess I'm missing the whole point. Who cares if WWoHP would perform equally well at any park (including Disney)? Sorry, I can't see the point you're trying to make. As such, it just kind of came across as biased nit picking rather than a well reasoned argument.

Also, who cares that it was faithful to it's source material? Many would consider that a good thing. Again, I don't see the point you are trying to make at all.

Let's not get too caught up in the "waiting in huge lines just to get into a store" thing. That is pretty much the fire marshal talking there considering each store is about the size of your local Subway.

And yet, it doesn't happen at any Subway (or Disney merch location) I've ever been to.

Once we managed the crowds and got to the register there was never really more than two or three people in front of us. I don't want to minimize the importance of the merchandise. It's there and it's great, but stores being packed is more of an artifact of design rather than popularity.

And yet, all reports I've seen indicate that size of the store aside, Uni is selling an awful lot of merch. I've heard that Disney is insanely jealous over the business Uni is doing.

Let's not get too hung up on the physical lines. (We all expected the tiny stores to be crowded.) It's the smashing success beyond anyone's wildest expectations that is news here.

As for Disney making a mistake, I think that is a no-brainer to say that they did. However, I think they are smart right now riding it out as opposed to scrambling to counteract it. Whether that is intentional or not really is debatable.

I don't know if Disney made a mistake in letting Potter go. It's a better fit at Universal and they needed it more. There was no need for Disney to pay the high price for a franchise they don't own.

And I agree it's best not to scramble. But they should have been prepared such that scrambling was not required.

In fact, they should need to respond to Potter at all. But their lack of activity in recent years makes them look tired by comparisson. And when you look at what we know is coming in the future, they aren't looking a lot better any time soon.

Interesting caveat to the ocean analogy and it rings true. Basically, I was saying that we really shouldn't pat Uni on the back as much as some people are. HP was delivered on a silver platter to both Disney and Uni. Uni was the one that decided to pay the waiter.

Here's the thing. They took a big gamble. They executed. The reaped the benefits. When's the last time Disney did that?

I think the accolades are deserved.

However to entertain that line of thought, I think most of us agree that retrospectively Disney should have bolstered its offerings in 2008 and 2009 for each park. The appeal of having something "new" without the appearance of direct competition I think would have gone a long way towards stemming what we are seeing now.

Full agreement. It's not so much a problem of HP opening in 2010 and Disney not having an immediate answer. It's a problem of Disney having grown a little stale (to some) while Uni pushed forward with the most impressive theme park development in recent memory.

Uni looks like the leader Disney used to be.

On the other hand, the internet has been convinced that HP was perfect before the first stone was laid. I have a feeling that regardless of what Disney would have done, we would be having this same conversation.

I disagree. I've read HP derision since before the first stone was laid. Even now, some Disney fans are working overtime to down play the phenomenal success of WWoHP.

 

[jakeman]

Here's the thing. They took a big gamble. They executed. The reaped the benefits. When's the last time Disney did that?

I think the accolades are deserved.

That is the point of my post.

It's not a big gamble.

They opened a land based on Harry Potter. Staying power aside, it is one of the biggest franchises in two generations.

It's the equivalent if someone opened a Star Wars land (full land, not the pittance at DHS) in 1982.

It's really not that hard to connect the dots that this should have been done. On top of that, 80% of the work (everything from merchandise to theming) was done for them. All they had to do was build it and package it.

They are to be congratulated on a job well done. It really is a great area, but I disagree that all the accolades they are receiving, especially those regarding originality and theming are deserved.

I would hope that everyone takes some time out of their Disney vacation to taking in this addition to IOA. To judge something solely because of it's location is a sad thing to do. That goes in both directions.