Grouchy CMs low quality standards and other things from our trip...

luckyeye13

New Member
Also, I can't say that I've ever had a job that allowed employees to "fight back".

I'm not saying that other employers allow "fighting back," but they allow for enough force to defend oneself or a co-worker or customer from serious injury. In those cases, others would generally come to assist in order to neutralize any potential threat until security or police arrived, which would also negate the need to use more force as there is strength in numbers. At Disney, the poor CM would have to wait until Security arrived, which can take quite some time, as none of the other CMs would be able to do anything to assist. Even then, I wouldn't be surprised if Security couldn't physically do anything, either, and help would only come once OCSO arrived. (That is why WDW Security CMs jokingly say that their approved means of dealing with disruptive Guests is to say "Stop or I'll say stop again!") And, if you think that Guests don't get that way at WDW, you just have to remember about the beat-down at the Mad Tea Party from a few years back.

If the rest of the world ran in the rosy Disney way regarding self-defense, the underwear bomber would not have been tackled by passengers and crew. Instead, he would have been nicely asked to desist until the plane either landed safely and DTW police took him away or the plane caught on fire.
 

wdwaddict71

New Member
I'm not saying that other employers allow "fighting back," but they allow for enough force to defend oneself or a co-worker or customer from serious injury. In those cases, others would generally come to assist in order to neutralize any potential threat until security or police arrived, which would also negate the need to use more force as there is strength in numbers. At Disney, the poor CM would have to wait until Security arrived, which can take quite some time, as none of the other CMs would be able to do anything to assist. Even then, I wouldn't be surprised if Security couldn't physically do anything, either, and help would only come once OCSO arrived. (That is why WDW Security CMs jokingly say that their approved means of dealing with disruptive Guests is to say "Stop or I'll say stop again!") And, if you think that Guests don't get that way at WDW, you just have to remember about the beat-down at the Mad Tea Party from a few years back.

If the rest of the world ran in the rosy Disney way regarding self-defense, the underwear bomber would not have been tackled by passengers and crew. Instead, he would have been nicely asked to desist until the plane either landed safely and DTW police took him away or the plane caught on fire.
No, this is not necessarily true..I have had coworkers (mainly ER staff)assaulted by patients and they were pretty much strong-armed into not pressing charges. I have been spit at, had patients throw punches, and had my ______ pinched by a little old man..granted, these were patients coming out of anesthesia, but still. :ROFLOL:

If being a CM sucks so bad, then these people need to find another line of work.Why work there? I'm not buying that that's all there is available. I did my time in retail and hated it. But guess what, this motivated me to go back to school to find something better for me. May not be easy, but most of us here, I gather, didn't have things handed to us.
 

wdwaddict71

New Member
And aren't customer service related...so even on a bad day it doesn't have any real effect on the work goals.



Beat me to it! I had to laugh at that. Being in the infantry and working at Disney World are so completely different that it is absurd to try and compare. The infantry isn't a customer service job, and the experiences aren't comparative. And anyone who claims to have worked a customer service job and not have an "off" day (to where customers would notice) is probably lying.

That said, I think we all may be talking about different types of rudeness. I have personally never seen a CM at Disney be proactively rude or smarmy with a guest for no reason. I've seen a few who seemed, at worst, complacent. And also, there's a difference between being able to shrug off an abusve or irate guest during a normal shift and dealing with abusive/irate guests during a 12-hour shift. And believe me, working customer service for a museum or phone company or theater is entirely different from working at a theme park. I had though I had seen the worst of people when I worked at Six Flags. Then I worked at a high-profile art museum right out of college and realized Six Flags was a piece of cake in comparison. I had never believed there could be so much nastiness directed at people. So while some may think working in a Casino dealing with drunks is the same thing, it's not.

Are people forced to take these jobs? No. But if it's between that and starving or being homeless, then they have no real choice. But I doubt that applies to more than a small majority of people at Disney. And it doesn't matter. Nobody goes through life, goes to work, and wishes they weren't there. Everyone has days where they would rather be somewhere else. Does that mean they should take it out on guests? Of course not. But I doubt any of the people here espousing "it's their job to be nice 24-7" is talking about someone just being outright rude. The mere fact a CM doesn't have a smile on his face doesn't make him rude.



That's a very broad assumption that simply because a CM may have overreacted and treated a guest rudely, or isn't jumping off the walls happy, means they don't like their job. And it's ridiculous to say they should find another line work for having an off day. And frontline CMs can't just walk away if they feel they need to calm down because they might overreact. A salesperson can hide in the back for a few minutes at a store, a waitress can take a little longer returning to the table or ask someone else to get the drink order, a phone operator can pass the call along. CMs are stuck. So when they are having a bad day (for whatever reason) should they just quit? Call-in sick and be subject to disciplinary action? No one is advocating that CMs have a right to be rude...but to pretend that their being rude means they don't like their job and should find another line of work is just as presumptuous and mis-guided as comparing a job in the infantry to that of a CM.
Nursing most certainly is "customer" related..My cat could have just died, I could have a fever of 104 etc, etc, etc and if I'm mean to a patient because I'm having a bad day, you'll bet I'll hear about it. And the other jobs I mentioned all deal with the public(with the exception of the military)..so fail on that argument.:rolleyes:

Now, we're all human, but if a CM is rude to me, I'm going to deal with it. Usually, I'm pretty good at giving back what I get but sometimes, I just ask to speak to their supervisor.(have only had to do this once at WDW,BTW) And there is nothing wrong with this...actions have consequences. I think that's what's aggravating some of us here. Part of being a responsible adult is realizing that you should take your job seriously and that if you act like a tool on the job, people are going to call you on it. Enough with the whining about how hard your jobs are...there are people who have it way worse. Someone yelled at you? I say, get used to it, life isn't easy for anyone. If they're having a bad day, here's what they're supposed to do...suck it up and do the best they can..that's what most people do.

Honestly, I'm not sure if this is a result of the way people in their 20's and younger have been raised(everyone gets a trophy just for showing up..) or it's just depends on people having poor coping skills. Either way, it doesn't matter..most people aren't going to care if your feelings are hurt because a customer yelled at you, despite what your momma might have told you.
 

draybook

Well-Known Member
nursing most certainly is "customer" related..my cat could have just died, i could have a fever of 104 etc, etc, etc and if i'm mean to a patient because i'm having a bad day, you'll bet i'll hear about it. And the other jobs i mentioned all deal with the public(with the exception of the military)..so fail on that argument.:rolleyes:

Now, we're all human, but if a cm is rude to me, i'm going to deal with it. Usually, i'm pretty good at giving back what i get but sometimes, i just ask to speak to their supervisor.(have only had to do this once at wdw,btw) and there is nothing wrong with this...actions have consequences. I think that's what's aggravating some of us here. Part of being a responsible adult is realizing that you should take your job seriously and that if you act like a tool on the job, people are going to call you on it. Enough with the whining about how hard your jobs are...there are people who have it way worse. Someone yelled at you? I say, get used to it, life isn't easy for anyone. If they're having a bad day, here's what they're supposed to do...suck it up and do the best they can..that's what most people do.

Honestly, i'm not sure if this is a result of the way people in their 20's and younger have been raised(everyone gets a trophy just for showing up..) or it's just depends on people having poor coping skills. Either way, it doesn't matter..most people aren't going to care if your feelings are hurt because a customer yelled at you, despite what your momma might have told you.


qft!
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
Theres a simple message that I received as young Airman Sak, that I was given by a drill sergeant in a manner that was best reflected in Full Metal Jacket that I feel applies to every job.

If you cant take a joke you shouldnt have joined.


So deal with it, whether you sweep floors for Disney, dodge IEDs in conflict or photograph murdering scum bags who are now your new best friend, or move on.

Simples.
 

fosse76

Well-Known Member
Nursing most certainly is "customer" related..My cat could have just died, I could have a fever of 104 etc, etc, etc and if I'm mean to a patient because I'm having a bad day, you'll bet I'll hear about it. And the other jobs I mentioned all deal with the public(with the exception of the military)..so fail on that argument.:rolleyes:

Wrong. The jobs aren't comparable on ANY level, so you fail on that argument. And nursing is not a customer service job. Nurses, like all professionals, need to have a level of professionalism, but are not required to provide the level of "customer service" a CM at Disney is supposed to.

Now, we're all human, but if a CM is rude to me, I'm going to deal with it. Usually, I'm pretty good at giving back what I get but sometimes, I just ask to speak to their supervisor.(have only had to do this once at WDW,BTW) And there is nothing wrong with this...actions have consequences. I think that's what's aggravating some of us here. Part of being a responsible adult is realizing that you should take your job seriously and that if you act like a tool on the job, people are going to call you on it. Enough with the whining about how hard your jobs are...there are people who have it way worse. Someone yelled at you? I say, get used to it, life isn't easy for anyone. If they're having a bad day, here's what they're supposed to do...suck it up and do the best they can..that's what most people do.

And while most of that is true, they are human and prone to slip up. If you tell me you work in customer service and claim to have never talked-back to a customer at some point, I'll know that you're lying.

Honestly, I'm not sure if this is a result of the way people in their 20's and younger have been raised(everyone gets a trophy just for showing up..)

Here we go. Every generation thinks the next generation is worse. And that's the generation who raised them, so they must be the same in reality.

or it's just depends on people having poor coping skills. Either way, it doesn't matter..most people aren't going to care if your feelings are hurt because a customer yelled at you, despite what your momma might have told you.

That's ridiculous. As I stated in a previous post, in positions such as those at Disney an employee has no time to recover from soem abuse until they are relieved by another employee. Unless I felt a CM (or any customer service employee) was genuinely a nasty person with no real concern for their customers, I would not complain. Unlike my job, where if make a mistake I may or may not get yelled at, but that's about it, a CM could be disciplined/fired. For what? Having a bad day. Nonsense.



Pumbas Nakasak said:
Theres a simple message that I received as young Airman Sak, that I was given by a drill sergeant in a manner that was best reflected in Full Metal Jacket that I feel applies to every job.

If you cant take a joke you shouldnt have joined.


So deal with it, whether you sweep floors for Disney, dodge IEDs in conflict or photograph murdering scum bags who are now your new best friend, or move on.

Simples.

Ridiculous. There is a difference between being rude because you are naturally a rude/abrasive person and that of someone who is having a bad day (for whatever reason). There is also a difference between a CM not smiling and looking orgasmic to be at work and that of being rude. And you know what? I'm tired of hearing "if they don't like their job they should find work elsewhere" because it is not a legitimate argument. You don't know their situation. Maybe it's the only job they could get. And while it certainly isn't any reason to be rude, the mere fact that they may not be outgoing and superficial doesn't necessarily make them rude (or unhappy).
 

draybook

Well-Known Member
Wrong. The jobs aren't comparable on ANY level, so you fail on that argument. And nursing is not a customer service job. Nurses, like all professionals, need to have a level of professionalism, but are not required to provide the level of "customer service" a CM at Disney is supposed to.



And while most of that is true, they are human and prone to slip up. If you tell me you work in customer service and claim to have never talked-back to a customer at some point, I'll know that you're lying.



Here we go. Every generation thinks the next generation is worse. And that's the generation who raised them, so they must be the same in reality.



That's ridiculous. As I stated in a previous post, in positions such as those at Disney an employee has no time to recover from soem abuse until they are relieved by another employee. Unless I felt a CM (or any customer service employee) was genuinely a nasty person with no real concern for their customers, I would not complain. Unlike my job, where if make a mistake I may or may not get yelled at, but that's about it, a CM could be disciplined/fired. For what? Having a bad day. Nonsense.





Ridiculous. There is a difference between being rude because you are naturally a rude/abrasive person and that of someone who is having a bad day (for whatever reason). There is also a difference between a CM not smiling and looking orgasmic to be at work and that of being rude. And you know what? I'm tired of hearing "if they don't like their job they should find work elsewhere" because it is not a legitimate argument. You don't know their situation. Maybe it's the only job they could get. And while it certainly isn't any reason to be rude, the mere fact that they may not be outgoing and superficial doesn't necessarily make them rude (or unhappy).


How old are you?
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
the mere fact that they may not be outgoing and superficial doesn't necessarily make them rude (or unhappy).

But it does highlight poor recruitment decisions if they have been recruited for customer facing roles.

And speaking as a rude abrasive person I would like to think that most people who I have dealt with in a variety of circumstances over the years wouldn’t have known I was having a bad day/week/month, but then again at work I do try and be professional. My colleagues however may know, but thats within the team and a whole new pile of Ertha
.
 
Being a CM has to be the hardest Job in the world, especially the room service care people. You have to deal with other peoples s**t having to put a smile on your face. You guys realize that for many this is a mode of income, its their profession. As a CM it doesn't matter how you feel, its the customers needs that matter. Your not making yourself happy you have to make others happy. I would like to see the people on this board complaining doing the same job under the same circumstances. I worked in retail and had to deal with a number of stupid and annoying people. I can not imagine what they have to deal with on an everyday basis and on that level. Also, unlike college program CM's. Im sure living near a park your whole life and working there kills the magic. I know the store I worked for killed the "magic" or appeal that store had for me, and I was there for only 2 years.
 

Courtney1188

New Member
Is it just me, or is this whole thread just super petty? Yes, it can be hard to be a CM. Yes, there are many people out there with more difficult jobs. Yes, CMs are human and sometimes have a bad day and it wrongly affects the guests. But come on now, people...we are getting way too worked up about this here. Throwing around accusations about young people and making assumptions about people and jobs that you have no personal experience with. Can't we just let this thread die already? :shrug: Clearly not everyone is going to agree. I realize part of a message board is debating, but this is just getting a bit ridiculous.
 

draybook

Well-Known Member
Nobody has said that. We've said that everyone has stress on the job and some of us deal with the same issues. Life is tough, suck it up or get rolled over by it.
 

ArielLover

Active Member
Add to that the fact that Disney CMs are not allowed to physically defend themselves. Although I do not advocate violence, I do believe that violence in the case of self-defense isn't wrong, as long as only the amount of force necessary to defend oneself is used. (Beating someone senseless because they slap you, for example, would not be considered reasonable.) If, however, you were to do such a thing at Disney to protect yourself or another CM or Guest, you would be instantly terminated. Even though I was lucky enough to not experience Guests who went to that extreme, the dilemma did cross my mind on more than one occasion when Guests would spout off threats and the natural worry of threats turning to action seeped in. (In one case, after a Guest threatened a CM near me at the MK Monorail station, I even called Security and then held the train in the station until they arrived to deal with the Guest.)

In case you are wondering what I would do in such a case (since I did present the quandary), I would take the termination. As much as I love Disney, there is no job there (or anywhere else, for that matter) that is worth getting beaten into a bloody pulp for while just taking it. In fact, even the monorail situation could have gotten me in trouble as Disney cares much more about everything being pixie-dust-happy than their CMs working in an environment free of abuse. One night at another monorail station, one of the CMs also held a train after calling Security on an abusive Guest who went so far as to threaten to put out his cigarette in the CM's eye after the CM asked him to put it out. In that case, when the manager heard over the radio why the train was being held, he scolded the CM for doing that and canceled the security call. Then, he personally went over to that station and told the CM that he would be reprimanded if he ever did that again. In my case, I had a much more understanding manager (one of the few who balances the needs of both Guests and CMs in a way that is fair to both) that night and I was only required to leave MK about 20 minutes early in order to fill out a witness statement about the incident. (For the record, I would still do the same thing even with the other manager on duty because while I care for Disney, I don't care to be in a potentially unsafe work environment. Then, I would have filed a grievance.)

I have worked in customer service jobs for most of the last 7 years, but Disney is the only employer that does not take abuse of its employees seriously. As another poster mentioned, employees at other businesses can go in the back and destress for a few moments after such a situation, while, at Disney, this is almost never allowed. Thus, it all just builds up, rather than being released while it is still at a more healthy level. When I would be getting yelled at by passengers for refusing them travel because of their travel documents (an issue I often dealt with, even when another agent was checking-in the passenger, due to my expertise in the matter), it would sometimes frazzle me a bit. However, once that was finished with (and it wasn't usually too long as I never changed my mind after assessing a passenger's documents), I could just go in the back for a few minutes. Then, I could come back out and continue to provide the premium service that was expected of me. Also, other companies are much more proactive when it comes to making sure that customers know the consequences if they continue to misbehave. One evening, when I was working at Air Canada, a man from Quebec went into a rage in French after I told him that his flight to Montreal was canceled. (One look out the window would explain why most short flights were not operating on any airline in or out of Newark that day.) My French is pretty good, but not at the level of arguing, so a native French-speaking agent offered to help. We still didn't get anywhere with the passenger and he just got louder and more aggressive, so the lead came over and told us in English that, if the passenger kept up his behavior, the airport police would be called straight away. Apparently, the passenger's level of English was good enough to understand what that meant, and, while still quite upset with the situation, he backed down very quickly. If a coordinator even thought of doing that at WDW, he would probably not be a coordinator by the next shift. Even at the ski resort where I am working for the season, one of the leaders of a school group lost her free chaperone ticket privileges, in part, after she threatened to "reach over the counter and strangle" the staff at the group check-in area because her tickets weren't printed straight away. At Disney, she would probably have received a sprinkling of pixie dust and a cookie for that outburst.

I really think that businesses in the US need to put up the same signs that I see all over the UK that say that the employees there have a right to work without physical or verbal abuse and that such abuse will not be tolerated. It is a mystery to me why I don't see that in more places here, especially since Americans aren't exactly known to be the most even-tempered group on the planet. Even British Airways, which I worked at for more than two years, doesn't have those signs in their US airports, though I did notice them at London Heathrow for the first time when I went through in 2008. Heck, I'd even be for seeing that printed at the bottom of Disney park maps. It may not be magical, but safety and courtesy both come before show, anyway.

I am not saying this as an excuse for actual rude behavior, such as snide comments or insults, towards a Guest or customer. This is more about what some people on this board label rude when it really isn't, such as a CM who doesn't have a smile pasted on their face 24/7. And, as a side note, while people in America get all worked up when someone has the audacity to not smile at them, smiling at strangers in many other countries would cause others to think that the person is not normal. Since many CMs are from other countries (even if, like in my case, it may not be obvious), there could be some of that in play, too. I actually had that problem back when I lived in Russia (where I was born) because I have always been a happy, smiley person. As a result, there were indeed people there who thought that not everything was quite right with me.

I guess the bottom line of all this is that everyone should remember that the person loading them on a ride, giving them their pizza, making sure that Guests stay in designated areas to prevent getting run over by parade floats, or having any other customer or Guest interaction is just that... A PERSON! Thus, it is best to treat them as such. People have feelings and will always end up letting some of the stressful ones slip out. (I don't care if you say that you're at 100% all the time because you are not. It's just not possible unless you are a god or some breed of superhuman.) On the flipside, though, most people also respond to positive things, such as a simple "thank you." Sometimes, the customer might even get recognized for being considerate. A few years back, Delta Air Lines had a "Good goes around" campaign that gave out SkyMiles or other rewards to customers for simple things, like holding a door for someone. When I worked at British Airways, on days when customers were needed for upgrades to World Traveller Plus (premium economy) or Club World (business class with flat beds and all that cool stuff), we were always told to look for people who were really nice (and appropriately dressed, in the case of Club World). Thus, if a customer was really nice to the check-in agent, the agent entered a comment into the system that flagged the customer as suitable for an upgrade, if needed. Likewise, if the person was a total jerk, they would likely get a not suitable for upgrade comment entered against their record. In a more Disney-related example, WDW gave out special pins a few years back to Guests for doing something courteous. The Guest would keep one of the pins and then hand out the other one to another Guest whom they spotted doing something courteous.

I actually ran into this about 15 years ago at the Magic Kingdom. I guy probably in his mid/late 30's was giving a CM a hard time about something. My family and I was walking by and this guy was getting really aggressive. He was 6 foot plus and the CM looked to be a 16-18 year old teenage girl that weighed about 100 pounds. She was trying to be nice and the guy started poking her and pushing her. When I started to turn back towards them, my ex-wife (one of the many reasons she is my ex) said to just keep walking. When I said something to the idiot he just turned and swung at me. I probably should have had time to mention the extensive martial arts and hand to hand combat training I have but by that time he was on the ground with a broken arm and didn't looks so good. Disney security and the police were there soon after. I thought I would be in trouble but the Disney people were amazing, offered us free dinner etc. and explained how not many people would ever stick up for a CM. We didn't accept any of their offers but it seemed like we were treated extra special the whole trip.
 

SirGoofy

Member
I actually ran into this about 15 years ago at the Magic Kingdom. I guy probably in his mid/late 30's was giving a CM a hard time about something. My family and I was walking by and this guy was getting really aggressive. He was 6 foot plus and the CM looked to be a 16-18 year old teenage girl that weighed about 100 pounds. She was trying to be nice and the guy started poking her and pushing her. When I started to turn back towards them, my ex-wife (one of the many reasons she is my ex) said to just keep walking. When I said something to the idiot he just turned and swung at me. I probably should have had time to mention the extensive martial arts and hand to hand combat training I have but by that time he was on the ground with a broken arm and didn't looks so good. Disney security and the police were there soon after. I thought I would be in trouble but the Disney people were amazing, offered us free dinner etc. and explained how not many people would ever stick up for a CM. We didn't accept any of their offers but it seemed like we were treated extra special the whole trip.

Amazing story!

As a CM, I just want to say that I wish there were more people lie you in the parks!:sohappy:
 

ArielLover

Active Member
Amazing story!

As a CM, I just want to say that I wish there were more people lie you in the parks!:sohappy:

Its wierd because it happened so fast. I never really thought it would turn out like that. She should have had the option to call for help but it really did seem like she was on her own with this sad excuse for a man.

I hadn't thought about that incident in years.
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
So by that comment you are saying that CMs deserve to be treated like trash?


No, but then again why should working for Disney exempt customer facing positions from the same sort of daily engagements that are common in all such sectors? Or to have to deal with punters in a polite and courteous way even when you don’t feel like it. Is this part of the mystification of the role?
.
 

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