great video of Joe Rohde and Jon Landau at DAK

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
And Avatar was an allegory to our own world hence the moniker "Dances with Wolves with blue people".
But it has always been known as fiction. The conservation message is also a natural offshoot of the connection with animals, not its central theme. Pandora connects tangentially. It wholly lacks the reality and authenticity that is a constant stream of discussion in any of Rohde's other projects.
 

RandySavage

Well-Known Member
Now, I'll counter. Mind you, this is admittedly SUBJECTIVE.

Nothing to be said here, AK (I really hate adding "Disney" to the beginning of everything, but that's a personal gripe), certainly is an experience. But, for the average park goer who isn't intimately familiar with the park, like park nuts are, it's confusing and poorly laid out.

I've always prefered the organic, winding layout (which still remains generally hub-spoke) and think it suits the park's themes (exploration, nature). Getting lost is a good thing if you're not running from marquee ride to marquee ride, and the park rewards the slower-paced discoverers. If the master plan has one major flaw I think it is the placement of Conservation Station and the layout of Wildlife Express. AK was planned with the very large (50+acre) Tiger River Run asian safari, so one can sort of see why this happened as it did. When the much smaller Kali was selected instead, it looks like it was too late to change the master plan and that left a huge chunk of dead-end land to eventually develop that will be a significant walk away (I always guessed this is where the "Night Kingdom" Rasulo boutique park was going to go). Even so, I wish the budgets for Conservation Station/Wildlife Express/Camp Mickey had been re-allocated to at least give the Mythical animal land (with family friendly rides) a beach-head.

Yeah, well, I never knew either of those stories, and I've done both more than once and am a bit of a detail nerd. So, if I missed it, I'm sure many more did. So, again, relating to my critique post about AK, they did a pretty poor job of telling the "story".
Even on the surface, not examining the myriad of little details, I don't see how it can be missed, simply by the fact that the cultural and architectural (in-your-face) aspects of the villages (human inhabited parts) are so well rendered (it is pretty clearly an East African Port Town, a Himalayan foothills Indian village), that an attached animal viewing area or ride has its believability exponentially improved (as opposed to Kali being picked up and dropped in, say, Fantasyland). Kali+Anandapur+Maharajah Jungle Trek+Serka Zong+Everest, despite weaknesses in individual components, harmonize as a whole. Those kinds on harmonics in theme parks are a beautiful thing, IMO. If your a detail nerd, this site has 100 nicely-done photo-articles on the nerdier details:
http://disneyshawn.blogspot.com/search/label/Maharajah Jungle Trek
Animals aside, the artwork alone that went into some of these places is mind-boggling.

That's a huge leap of logic.
That's been my own experience. I think that's because of what I described above; the symphonic nature of most of the park's lands (coherently themed to a geography).


Really? What did I miss? I got lost a few times, and ran into the "Bugs Life" attraction, but otherwise don't really have any lasting memories of that section. Oh, we did run into the dog and kid from UP there, and they had a glorious meet and greet. Whomever was in the costumes that day were on the top of their game.

Aside from that...nope, no major memories.
There were two seldom-visited paths (now mucked up to my deep disgust), that took you past small animal exhibits, under waterfalls and under the roots and boughs of the magnificently-sculpted Tree. These kind of unadvertised, uncrowded, exploration areas are one of the best things you can find in a theme park (like DLP's Dragon's Lair). On the most crowded days of the year, your party could always find respite here. The paths were one of my favorite memories from our last trip (sadly a month later, the nets and barricades went up).
Here's a sample of one of them:



Oh, you mean the area people walk through to get to the rides? (if that comes off snarky, it wasn't intended, but it was intentional...and this was the area I was referring to when I spoke of "CM Guides" being out and about to make you slow down and appreciate it)
Not everyone's thing, but I love this approach to entering a nature park (as opposed to, say, a Discovery Island-style commercial boulevard). Was a very bold decision and I'm in awe it made it through.



I don't hate the park (speaking for myself). However, I don't love it either. It doesn't draw me. It doesn't entice me. But, I have noted (and I said this before), it's gotten better over the years since I started going back regularly in 2010. Is that the fact I'm more familiar with it and know that the point is to slow down and absorb it, or is that the fact it is operationally getting better? I can't tell you. This past trip is the first trip I can say I honestly enjoyed my time there...because we didn't do the major rides. We spent our time on Discovery Island (thanks to those great CMs providing edutainment), we ventured out to Planet Watch (something we'd skipped every other trip), etc.
See, you're coming around and you even missed the "good years"!

It's a great park, I don't wish to rob Joe of any of the kudos involved in that with any of my comments. Take that intent as an undercurrent for the more elaborate criticisms I make.

All that being said, the fact the whole project fell apart in an era where blank checks were being cut if the right people were convinced (this isn't like Disneyland where Walt mortgaged his house)...Rohde dropped a very huge ball...repeatedly.

And, I feel that is very fair criticism of him as a project manager. Lead designer, sure, I have no issues with that. Lead Imagineer...we will, I have a very good feeling that well end up with a budget, watered down version of what was an amazing idea.

Because, that's all (as far as I can tell) that he's good at. Ideas.
Don't know the inside story but I've heard Beastly Kingdomme and Tiger River were cut late in the game. They would have gone a long way to making the park more full-day and well-rounded. There's always a "honeymoon's over" type of thing as a project moves from concept to reality.

I am more of a popcorn movie guy (Indiana Jones queue with its moving spiked ceiling) than an arthouse film guy (Everest queue with its authentic Nepalese totems) when it comes to theme parks, but I still think Joe's project really delivered.
 
Last edited:

DVCOwner

A Long Time DVC Member
I can say that "even Joe knows it" because I've talked to him about it in person. It's people like me that bring facts and rumors that you wouldn't otherwise hear to this site, and if you have a problem with people like me, you're more than welcome to use that fabulous ignore button for anyone like me. I'm not telling you to judge Pandora before it opens, I'm asking that you just be willing to accept that the creator of the park may not be as happy about the entire project as you make him out to be.

I am not making him out to be happy, he is in this flim telling us that he is happy about this project.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
plus any debate about Joe not being 100% behind this project is water under the bridge...he is now so lets move on to hopefully a good expansion
That seems like a very very very big stretch considering that his job was also on the line while the project was on life support. So long as he is employeed by Walt Disney Imagineering he will gush about the project, especially in official appearances.
 
Last edited:

ABQ

Well-Known Member
That seems like a very very very big stretch considering that his job was also on the line while the project was on life support. So long as he is employees by Walt Disney Imagineering he will gush about the project, especially in official appearances.
Is it truly a known fact this his job was on the line? If they hate him that much, why not just let him go?
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
That seems like a very very very big stretch considering that his job was also on the line while the project was on life support. So long as he is employees by Walt Disney Imagineering he will gush about the project, especially in official appearances.
we can only go by what the man is saying
to me your assumptions are a bigger stretch than mine because im only going by the mans word not internet message board talk

think about it..everything you just said is based off of message board material...not saying its not true just saying it cant be ruled as fact..again water under the bridge this is happening
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
a year ago it was reported how much rohde hated working with Cameron and how hard it was to work with him..thats not the story being told today...so in reality we don't know much of the story...kinda why my signature says what it says
 

FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member
a year ago it was reported how much rohde hated working with Cameron and how hard it was to work with him..thats not the story being told today...so in reality we don't know much of the story...kinda why my signature says what it says

Nearly everyone who works with James Cameron hates it, it really wouldn't be at all surprising if Rohde was no different.

At the end of the day Rohde has had no choice but to get on board with this, that doesn't mean that he is any happier about it now than he was when it was announced. No matter his reputation or history, he is just a spoke on the massive wheel that is Disney and he is at the mercy of the whims of his superiors. Whether he likes Pandora or not, he has to toe the company line or he'll be turfed out. If there is one thing the current Disney management has proven it is that they don't deal in sentimentality, if Rohde doesn't do as he's told, and learn to like it, he'll go the same way as Tony Baxter. But its not hard to believe that Rohde isn't thrilled at having a project pushed on him and shoehorned into his park by management, he does give the impression of a creative free spirit who believes his park is above such things as corporate beuracracy.
 
Last edited:

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Nearly everyone who works with James Cameron hates it, it really wouldn't be at all surprising if Rohde was no different.

At the end of the day Rohde has had no choice but to get on board with this, that doesn't mean that he is any happier about it now than he was when it was announced. No matter his reputation or history, he is just a spoke on the massive wheel that is Disney and he is at the mercy of the whims of his superiors. Whether he likes Pandora or not, he has to toe the company line or he'll be turfed out. If there is one thing the current Disney management has proven it is that they don't deal in sentimentality, if Rohde doesn't do as he's told, and learn to like it, he'll go the same way as Tony Baxter. But its not hard to believe that Rohde isn't thrilled at having a project pushed on him and shoehorned into his park by management.
So his once in a lifetime opportunity that he mentioned is a lie? He didnt mean any of those words in the video?
Is that what you re saying?
Again water under the bridge
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Is it truly a known fact this his job was on the line? If they hate him that much, why not just let him go?
Probably similar reasons as to why it took so long to get rid of Baxter.

So his once in a lifetime opportunity that he mentioned is a lie? He didnt mean any of those words in the video?
Is that what you re saying?
Again water under the bridge
You sound completely oblivious to how Disney works at crafting their image. The man has had an entire career to play with memorable and loved franchises and chose to eschew that in favor of more real world adventures. It just does not add up with his past projects that he himself conceived.
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Probably similar reasons as to why it took so long to get rid of Baxter.


You sound completely oblivious to how Disney works at crafting their image. The man has had an entire career to play with memorable and loved franchises and chose to eschew that in favor of more real world adventures. It just does not add up with his past projects that he himself conceived.
And you sound gullable
Not everything on the internet is correct
And i really have no clue to joe rohdes personal taste and nor do you. But i keep going back to none of this matters. There is upwards of 60 or so people who areworking on this and im sure compromise was involved but it looks like they know the direction they want to go with this project
Again all of this is just my limited opinion (see my sig)
 

FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member
So his once in a lifetime opportunity that he mentioned is a lie? He didnt mean any of those words in the video?
Is that what you re saying?
Again water under the bridge

I wouldn't be at all surprised. Just because I see someone saying something in a video doesn't mean I automatically believe they're telling the truth.

This is happening whether Rohde likes it or not so he has absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose if he appears as anything less than completely enthusiastic about a project that hasn't exactly received a unanimously positive response from the public to say the least.

I don't know for certain that he is unhappy about it at present, the same as you don't know whether he is happy about it no matter how many times you say its "all water under the bridge". I've read and heard enough from sources I trust to believe that Rohde wasn't happy to be told that Pandora was effectively being shoehorned into a park that he is essentially custodian of and I don't believe that he is completely happy about it now because he said so in a video as he really has no choice but to be happy about it and accept it.

But that's just my view on it.
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
G
I wouldn't be at all surprised. Just because I see someone saying something in a video doesn't mean I automatically believe they're telling the truth.

This is happening whether Rohde likes it or not so he has absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose if he appears as anything less than completely enthusiastic about a project that hasn't exactly received a unanimously positive response from the public to say the least.

I don't know for certain that he is unhappy about it at present, the same as you don't know whether he is happy about it no matter how many times you say its "all water under the bridge". I've read and heard enough from sources I trust to believe that Rohde wasn't happy to be told that Pandora was effectively being shoehorned into a park that he is essentially custodian of and I don't believe that he is completely happy about it now because he said so in a video as he really has no choice but to be happy about it and accept it.

But that's just my view on it.
good points
Thats why we can only go on what he says especially since this wasnt on the parks blog this was just him talking to cast members something similar to what @themonkeyisthesultan said rohde discussed in november
 
Last edited:

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
And you sound gullable
Not everything on the internet is correct
And i really have no clue to joe rohdes personal taste and nor do you. But i keep going back to none of this matters. There is upwards of 60 or so people who areworking on this and im sure compromise was involved but it looks like they know the direction they want to go with this project
Again all of this is just my limited opinion (see my sig)
We can know some of his personal tastes based on what he does outside of Disney. Items like his personal website are not about pop culture or science fiction, but the sort of interests and experiences that are central to Disney projects like most of Disney's Animal Kingdom or Aulani.
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
We can know some of his personal tastes based on what he does outside of Disney. Items like his personal website are not about pop culture or science fiction, but the sort of interests and experiences that are central to Disney projects like most of Disney's Animal Kingdom or Aulani.
ill give you last word on moving on
thanks for a good debate/discussion
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom