great video of Joe Rohde and Jon Landau at DAK

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Set in a very pessimistic future where all conservation efforts failed and the Earth has turned into a cyberpunk hellscape versus how Animal Kingdom's "ecological message attractions" are very much about how we still can do something about it.

Conservation messages have always included messages about the results of environmental mismanagement. We're not visiting a cyberpunk hellscape though. We're visiting a beautiful, undeveloped fictional planet populated by a race that is really plugged into the organic matrix of the planet and can't bear for the environmental balance to be thrown off. It is a great fit for a fictional component of DAK. A better fit than anything else I've seen suggested. It even fits visually. It is lush, beautiful, and will bring some sweet eye candy.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Because Disney's Animal Kingdom is unique in its development and growth. The park is very much his creation and is personally identified with him.

So do you think if he is secretly unhappy he will purposely do a bad job on Avatar? If not then the debate is academic since the project is greenlit and ground has broken. If they were still deciding go/no go and he expressed a concern then it might be more relevant, but that ship has long sailed.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
So do you think if he is secretly unhappy he will purposely do a bad job on Avatar? If not then the debate is academic since the project is greenlit and ground has broken. If they were still deciding go/no go and he expressed a concern then it might be more relevant, but that ship has long sailed.

If he is unhappy he may not like the direction the project is taking and is powerless to change it.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
So do you think if he is secretly unhappy he will purposely do a bad job on Avatar? If not then the debate is academic since the project is greenlit and ground has broken. If they were still deciding go/no go and he expressed a concern then it might be more relevant, but that ship has long sailed.
I don't think he will Try to sanatorium the project and his career, but I think the personal connection between him and the park, as well as his body of work both for Disney and outside Disney, show a strong direction that never would have naturally included not just Avatar, but any other sort of wholly fictional and/or extraterrestrial concepts (Would we have ever expected a Mars land despite there being somewhat of a history of the planet being used for similar conservation stories?). It may well be a purely academic discussion, but so are many others regarding the nature of theme and it's relevance to existing projects. This publicity video has also been argued as a proof in this academic discussion, evidence that the project clearly fits into Disney's Animal Kingdom because Rohde is the face of the park.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I don't think he will Try to sanatorium the project and his career, but I think the personal connection between him and the park, as well as his body of work both for Disney and outside Disney, show a strong direction that never would have naturally included not just Avatar, but any other sort of wholly fictional and/or extraterrestrial concepts (Would we have ever expected a Mars land despite there being somewhat of a history of the planet being used for similar conservation stories?). It may well be a purely academic discussion, but so are many others regarding the nature of theme and it's relevance to existing projects. This publicity video has also been argued as a proof in this academic discussion, evidence that the project clearly fits into Disney's Animal Kingdom because Rohde is the face of the park.
This may be oversimplifying things, but the guy has done high quality work in the past and is a professional so whether he loves it or hates it he is going to do his best to make the new land fit in with the rest of his park and be the best it can be. I sometimes have to work on projects at work that I don't necessarily think were the best idea to pursue, but I still put in my best effort. As long as the work is top notch I really don't care if he is happy or not. Sorry Joe, just do your job.
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
This may be oversimplifying things, but the guy has done high quality work in the past and is a professional so whether he loves it or hates it he is going to do his best to make the new land fit in with the rest of his park and be the best it can be. I sometimes have to work on projects at work that I don't necessarily think were the best idea to pursue, but I still put in my best effort. As long as the work is top notch I really don't care if he is happy or not. Sorry Joe, just do your job.
im an educated man,simple man,but an educated man.... first and foremost I think he is fully behind this project...second if hes not im convinced he has enjoyed working with Cameron on this project...Third he will be a professional and do his best work along with the 60 or so other people who are working on this project
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
This may be oversimplifying things, but the guy has done high quality work in the past and is a professional so whether he loves it or hates it he is going to do his best to make the new land fit in with the rest of his park and be the best it can be. I sometimes have to work on projects at work that I don't necessarily think were the best idea to pursue, but I still put in my best effort. As long as the work is top notch I really don't care if he is happy or not. Sorry Joe, just do your job.
I don't doubt he'll do his best (Chester and Hester's Dino-Rama definitely wins in the quick and cheap category), but to me, a themed experience is all about the connection between events. It's not enough just to have a great collection of individual attractions and experiences. Disney's Animal Kingdom isn't a Disneyland or Islands of Adventure where each land is a distinct entity and therefore that connection between lands is just as important as the connections within a land.
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Conservation messages have always included messages about the results of environmental mismanagement. We're not visiting a cyberpunk hellscape though. We're visiting a beautiful, undeveloped fictional planet populated by a race that is really plugged into the organic matrix of the planet and can't bear for the environmental balance to be thrown off. It is a great fit for a fictional component of DAK. A better fit than anything else I've seen suggested. It even fits visually. It is lush, beautiful, and will bring some sweet eye candy.
A planet we are only visiting because Earth became an unlivable hellhole. Everything else in the park is rendered moot because Pandora implies that Earth is heading towards the Bad Future and no matter how much we try to help save all the environments presented in the park, it's not going to work. We can't save Big Red and LIttle Red, we can't save Rafiki's endangered friends, the loggers will keep doing crap to the Kali River and the Yeti will probably get killed by a train, thus we are directed to going to Pretentious High and Mighty Blue Elf Cat Planet

This is also why Wall-E in Tomorrowland is a bad idea. I don't want Buy N Large in an optimistic city of the future at all.
 

The Visionary Soul

Well-Known Member
There are only a handful of people here that have a long track history of being right on with their rumors and facts and an abundance of know it alls. What the few have projected years in advance materialized. They have a following because they earned our trust, they didn't tell us to accept their word, they let their posts stand on their own, we ourselves came to know they had solid information. It is a longevity thing, demonstrates confidence and maturity. For me, I was reading their posts long before I became a member. It takes time to build a solid reputation as a fact and rumor guru.
I respect that you don't know me very well, and that's fine. I was actually the same as you, reading those other users' posts for a long time before I created this account and started posting here. Just let time run its course. I'm positive that you can decide to which group I belong.
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
A planet we are only visiting because Earth became an unlivable hellhole. Everything else in the park is rendered moot because Pandora implies that Earth is heading towards the Bad Future and no matter how much we try to help save all the environments presented in the park, it's not going to work. We can't save Big Red and LIttle Red, we can't save Rafiki's endangered friends, the loggers will keep doing crap to the Kali River and the Yeti will probably get killed by a train, thus we are directed to going to Pretentious High and Mighty Blue Elf Cat Planet

This is also why Wall-E in Tomorrowland is a bad idea. I don't want Buy N Large in an optimistic city of the future at all.

Everyone will understand that this is a fictional area, earth in the Pandora timeline won't be present at all, environmental warnings have some doom and gloom with them a matter of course. You can stretch anything to fit or not with respect to themed environments. Really, it takes less logical contortions to say, "This is a beautiful, lush world to add to DAK and looks like something that belongs in DAK. Further, the denizens of this world are really into conservation and nature because of their biology, which is a theme in the park. Finally, this fictionalized narrative provides a warning to man of what could happen if he doesn't change his ways (which is also a theme present in DAK)." Each of those points only takes a sentence and is self-explanatory. I don't have to write essays to argue my point on any of those things because they are simple and self-evident.

This isn't my favorite ip either, but I've felt this was a logical move and a good move since 2011, for a variety of reasons. Besides the fact it is an almost perfectly crafted ip for the park and it doesn't have the cultural appeal of SW or something. Thus, it should be evident that doing a good job with the land is a priority. Like it or not, JC helps with this. We're talking about whether or not Rohde is happy. I don't care about this either. Maybe he doesn't like being made to follow through to this degree by an retentive weirdo. Disney used to follow through to the nth degree as a matter of course. Maybe it is something that has to be re-taught. Maybe he's developing some kind of permanent spinal curvature thanks to that ear ring. Who knows.

I also worry that in WDW's current state, that with SW, they might assume it is such a slam dunk all they have to do is build an X-Wing spinner, give us the Cantina (with no band, actors dressed in alien costumes as customers) and call it day. Somehow, someway, they need to re-learn the lesson of almost every E and D-ticket built pre-2000 - an awe inspiring attraction or land stands on its own merits.

Anyhoo, I am officially tired of this topic. I hope that Pandora lives up to is potential and that it is the start of a creative renaissance for WDW. I have seen the same anti-Avatar arguments for over 2 years and have found none of them compelling. It seems that no one ever changes their mind anyway.
 
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twebber55

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
well said George (I find myself agreeing with you often)....im of the old school thought that people should try it out before they claim it failure...its a theme park land you kinda have to suspend reality a little bit and not take it too literal.... have fun!
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Anyhoo, I am officially tired of this topic. I hope that Pandora lives up to is potential and that it is the start of a creative renaissance for WDW. I have seen the same anti-Avatar arguments for over 2 years and have found none of them compelling. It seems that no one ever changes their mind anyway.

Anti Avatar, Pro Avatar makes no difference to me at this point. 2 years in and a shovel full of dirt, I am bored with at least 3 more years of this to go.

Fairness to Avatar, I bored with FLE and am even more bored with Dwarf. Can only pitch an attraction or an expansion so long before everything about the project becomes tedious to think about.
 

scoobygirl39541

Well-Known Member
(Semi off topic question here, sorry) All this Joe Rohde discussion got me thinking.... How much input did he have in the development of Animal Kingdom Lodge?
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
No. It's a video about how they are trying to make a square peg slide into a round hole.

It doesn't "fit". I have continuously stated my displeasure with the concept of Avatar for the parks (bad movie, over the top concept) and my thoughts on Animal Kingdom (bad park with a lot of cut corners and, for the most part, looks and feels like an afterthought, inconsistant themes and severely lacking in attractions and immersion).

My position hasn't changed much. In fact, my opinion of the park has only gotten better over the years and visits (but...not much).

I've never been fond of Rhode because any practical engineer should be able to take into account real world limitations and requirements into their designs. He designed a base for the Yeti that cracked...so this extremely expensive animetronic no longer functions. He designed an over the top tree that's falling apart. He green lighted Chester and Hester's as a valid concept (whether or not it was his original plan).

He certainly is a "dreamer"...but I have very low confidence that he is a "doer".

And, that is why I am not thrilled at him being the lead Imagineer for Avatar. Avatar is either going to be amazingly awesome or a "meh, ok, I saw it, lets move on" experience. The line is very thin. I certainly hope it turns out amazing, but considering the plastic mediocracy that is NFL, I don't have much confidence at this point. This clip, while interesting, has not alleviated my concerns that this is following Disney's standard modus operandi.

But, Disney really needs to knock the ball out of the park...and I'm afraid this will turn into a bunt. When I saw the conceptual models with the floating island (and Joe's hilarious face in those pictures), I thought to myself...fat chance that is what the final land looks like once the red ink hits the ledger.

The only saving grace for it, even though the man is grossly overrated, may be James Cameron himself and the political weight he pulls with Disney to have his brand represented properly.
I think you were going to craft whatever dialog you wanted before watching this video. Having said that, I don't think there was anything in here that we didn't know previously.
 

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