GAC to Become DAS

[jaklgreen]

A lot of those people cannot do steps. So their families come with them to this loading area. Sometimes they take those people to enter at the exit point. Most of the time they just go around me and family since they don't need the car that can be adapted - they just hop on, but they've avoided the steps in the regular line.

That makes sense. If I had to use a ECV for some reason because walking at WDW was a bit too much I would feel horrible taking up a space for a person who can not walk at all.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Wow. And this is where I have an issue with 'it is all about me' and to heck with everyone else including mothers and small children. Not too many people Diss Mothers for tending to their children's basic needs or supervising them. Actually they get annoyed when Mothers don't stay with their children.

A single stall is not accessible to a mother with kids. A larger stall is accessible to a mother with kids. What is the Mother to do, leave her children outside unattended while she uses a small stall.
Should a Mother leave one kid outside the stall while assisting her other child? What if the Mom needs to use the restroom and the child can't stand yet? Should the Mother seat or lay the little one on the restroom floor? I am astounded by how self absorbed some guests have become. Me, me, me and to heck with everyone else.

Once again, restrooms have accessible restroom stalls not reserved. Same goes for the companion restrooms.
Elevators are the same thing. Yes they afford accessibility but they are not reserved. I often see Mothers use elevators too, it is difficult to take children and a stroller down a staircase or an escalator. Yes, a guest with mobility issues may have to wait for another elevator and that too will impact their day but by no means does that mean the Mother with her kids should not have access to an elevator. Gee-sh.

There are special companion restrooms throughout all the parks for this purpose, and to boot they are even larger and provide complete facilities from changing stations to sinks in a single room.

 

[Tom Morrow]

It is not a significant advantage to wait in a special wheelchair car line for up to an hour after the main stream line. There is no way for our experiences to be equal. I understand there is no way a card or being allowed to go through the fast pass line to get to the second line for the wheelchair car makes my experience equal to the average guest. I have been stepped on climbed over, etc. in stand by lines when people behind me need to loaded first and there isn't enough room to pull me and my party to the side. I would love to see Peter pan or pirates of the caribbean! Alas I can't. But I am happy I can at least go and do a few things and pay exactly the same price you pay. Many parks give me and a caregiver a discounted ticket to make up for the limited experience compared to the able bodied guest. I can't imagine how upset people would be if Disney ever did this. again, just educating.

For the ???th time, you and situations such as yours are not abuse. We're not talking about you, and you're missing the point completely.

 

[startraveler]

For the ???th time, you and situations such as yours are not abuse. We're not talking about you, and you're missing the point completely.

Yes, the post I replied to was talking about me -"disabled" having an "equal experience" - not abusers. My post was specifically in reply to the post that I quoted which stated "therefore enforcing the idea to disabled and non-disabled guests alike that nobody has a significant advantage over the other and providing an equal experience." I do not miss the point that some people feel put upon by others getting an undeserved "advantage." It's not fair. Of course, any program anywhere in which people perceive an advantage (real or not) will be abused. People are flawed and not program or system can change that. My reply to that post was that nothing can ever be done to make my experience "equal" as the poster said. I am not asking for an equal experience as that is impossible; I certainly am accepting of the fact that I can't have an equal experience. I am not asking for anything, just interested in educating some of the people who post claiming doing away with the system that people have used before (which is being discontinued for wheelchair users) will somehow make their experience and mine "equal" and will somehow take away "significant advantages" that I used to have over them when I toured WDW.

 

[BroganMc]

I have a question. On rides that only have 1 or 2 cars that accommodate wheelchairs(like TSM) do you think the lines would be a lot shorter if they only let those who can not transfer out of a wheelchair in them. For example, those who are in the rent a scooter who can walk go thru the line in their ECV and then after the stairs have them get in the regular car. I know when I wait in line for TSM I can see that there is a big line over where the wheelchairs are and the majority of them are the people in the ECV. To me it would make for sense, since they obviously can walk, that they should have them get in the regular line and not take up the special cars for wheelchairs. I know that ride in particular is set up bad but I am sure they can do something about it.

Oh absolutely yes. I've suggested many times over that they do something, anything remotely like this. Just bring up a regular 8 seated vehicle as needed to clear out the transfers. But I'm told over and over that management has told them it is more efficient to continually break down and rebuilt the same 6 seated wheelchair car. Its plain stupid management of resources. Makes waits longer for guests and work harder for CMs.

Now maybe they have gotten smarter about this recently. When I visited last Sunday there was a 7-8 person family waiting in front of me. No wheelchair or ECV, which made why they were there. Anyway the CMs had called up an 8 seated vehicle for them. They were quickly loaded. My wait time was then the shortest ever because I only had to wait for a wheelchair car to cycle thru the ride to me. And because there was no one waiting when I got back they let me go around a second time.

On all other rides where there is a dedicated wheelchair user, the transfers are cleared out quickly on regular vehicles. Finding Memo they loaded AF dozen dozen standby parties and 3 transfer parties before the wheelchair vehicle cycled around to me.

I'm more than happy to wait for that vehicle. I'm glad they have one for me to experience a ride. It's a real bummer when they don't or its broken. I just also know my wait will be longer because I have to wait for it. The old system was applied so guests like me had similar opportunities to do the same amount of things in a day as a non-transfer wheel I guest. GAC was most abused by the no wheelchair or transfer guest. I know of people who did it. Only compensation was seeing them get caught in some of the hassles I do.

 

[Spikerdink]

Great which makes my life just so much easier again. Oh if only I could have one of those miraculous recoveries at the boarding gate.

The folks my heart breaks for are the first timers and once-every-few-years-travelers who will have a less than magical experience. I fear they'll come away feeling like Disney is just like Universal - expensive, hyped and not really interested in their special needs guests. I so wish Disney had chosen another route to curb abuse. Requiring IDs, enforcing 6 person limits, even limiting usage to so many per hour or day. Just one barrier that a typical disabled family incurs due to the nature of having to deal with an actual disability would have been enough to make the abusers think twice. Instead they chose to appear hard line on abusers for the sake of Standby guests who complained far more than were affected and ended up only truly hurting the people who needed the extra help the most. It's a throwing the baby out with the bath water approach.

What about the families that DON'T have disabilities and Grandma and Grandpa decided to splurge so that the family could have a magical time and memories that will last the grandkids a lifetime? Are they to have a less than magical experience? The point of the change is to make everyone have an equal opportunity to experience rides and attractions. Nowhere did Disney have to provide anyone with a 'better' and 'more magical' experience.

From everything that I have read on this thread, it seems to be that the people who have utilized the GAC in the past to the maximum advantage are the ones who are now furious that they will be brought back to the pack in terms of access and ability to ride/see attractions.

You are correct - some people will be hurt more than others. I was at the MK two days ago on line for Splash Mountain when the flume pulled in to disembark passengers. It was obvious that one of the passengers in the front of the flume had severe handicap issues - to the extent that his family/friends needed to lift him from the vehicle and then into his wheelchair. It was quite a struggle to get him raised, then onto the dock and finally onto the chair. I wished I could have helped out in some way, as I am certain that this procedure was going to be replayed on most rides throughout the day. But I also saw people who were running a scam just so they could ride/do more in their day than others. THAT is the abuse that needs to cease.

I am also DVC and have seen Disney twist themselves in all directions to help out ANY guest who needed it - and even more so for families traveling with someone who needs special assistance. In reviewing this change, I do not see where the new rules suddenly destroy a vacation. Disney has responded to an obvious abuse and after consulting advocates for the disabled constructed this new program. Will it be perfect, most likely not, and I can guarantee that Disney will adjust as needed to respond to feedback from disability advocates, guests, CMs and others as needed. Time will be our guide, but we will see changes and we will see where it leads

 

[BroganMc]

For the ???th time, you and situations such as yours are not abuse. We're not talking about you, and you're missing the point completely.

You are missing the point.

What startraveler and I are saying is that the old program was applied so guests like us with a genuine need (mobility disabilities that prohibit transfer or make theme severe hardships as in having people lift them into vehicles) and limited resources to accommodate that need had an equal experience to those with no special need at all

That's exactly why I was instructed by CMs to even ask for a GAC so they could more readily accommodate me. I had thought the program was meant only for those with non-physical needs or hidden disabilities. Having a wheelchair of your own, even an expensive power wheelchair and a visible disability that screams inability to transfer was not enough to signify the need for help. Unless you had the card in addition you were not helped.

The new program is yet again designed to assist those with completely different needs (e.g. autism) while lumping those of us with mobility needs in the same category as the cheaters and people with no needs. Where is our accommodation?

If you want to say its in having a ramp or vehicle available with no consideration of the extra time or encumbrance it takes to use those resources then you are effectively saying we should be comfortable having less than equal experience to all other guests. There are some in this thread who have been callous enough to say just that. Telling folks not to bring their disabled kids at all or reminding them it is called "dis-ability". Even chastising people for daring to actually want to ride the bus because it meant moving people off seats designated for their wheelchair space.

This is the part I find objectionable and something Disney will have to adjust for. The frontline CMs I talk to all assume I will just have a DAS card and get a return time. They are surprised when I point out I am not supposed to get one. In fact I'm specifically told in the rules I am NOT ALLOWED to get one. It's a major flaw in the program.

Unfortunately this was the exact same flaw in the old GAC program. The only way a wheelchair non-transfer guest could get into those wheelchair car lines was to have a special stamp putting them there. Then the cheaters found out about it and Disney gave it out willy nilly to everyone. Had they simply limited that GAC to guests who "could not transfer" then we wouldn't have seen so many abusers and miracle walkers at the loading bays.

 

[BroganMc]

From everything that I have read on this thread, it seems to be that the people who have utilized the GAC in the past to the maximum advantage are the ones who are now furious that they will be brought back to the pack in terms of access and ability to ride/see attractions.

Hang on where are you getting that information from this thread? I don't see the abusers crying out as much as the complainers wailing about the theoretical abusers.

You have the autism parents either questioning how they'll apply it to their family. Most I've read seem generally positive about it.

You have the stamina folks questioning if they'll be able to do as many things in their limited park days to make the admission price worth it.

You have the full-time wheelchair mobility guests crying that they are being excluded entirely and the issues they do encounter being ignored or downplayed.

And you have the complainers regaling the possible dwindling of their Standby and FP waits because finally those abusers will get their fair do.

 

[Gabe1]

There are special companion restrooms throughout all the parks for this purpose, and to boot they are even larger and provide complete facilities from changing stations to sinks in a single room.

Indeed, likely you saw my post a few pages back that listed all of the companion restrooms.They are also used by everyone when a restroom is shut down too. All guests are welcome to use accessible facilities.

The vast majority of human beings have more intelligence not to differentiate and segregate who can use what bathrooms and discriminate against other peoples individual needs for accessibility, that ended with Civil Rights Act. The ADA provisions do not negate the Civil Rights Act.

 

[OswaldTheRabbit]

This site outlines everything about DAS, it even has pictures. I came across it on tumblr.
http://dasgac13.tumblr.com/

It is true that if you have a "stroller as wheelchair" tag then you can not have a DAS?

Please say no...... Please....

These two accommodations are for 2 different needs for an autistic kid. This for us would be a huge issue.

 

[Gomer]

It is true that if you have a "stroller as wheelchair" tag then you can not have a DAS?

Please say no...... Please....

These two accommodations are for 2 different needs for an autistic kid. This for us would be a huge issue.

I would guess that it will work the same as wheelchairs. The DAS and Wheelchair are not mutually exclusive, if you qualify for both you'll need to get both. Even under GAC, stroller as a wheelchair was an additional accomodation onto the normal GAC.

 

[OswaldTheRabbit]

I would guess that it will work the same as wheelchairs. The DAS and Wheelchair are not mutually exclusive, if you qualify for both you'll need to get both. Even under GAC, stroller as a wheelchair was an additional accomodation onto the normal GAC.

Oh that would be good. This link said you aren't eligible for a DAS if you have a tag. For our son the stroller is for sensory (especially sound) and the DAS is for both him and others in line for his "activity" levels!

 

[Gomer]

Oh that would be good. This link said you aren't eligible for a DAS if you have a tag. For our son the stroller is for sensory (especially sound) and the DAS is for both him and others in line for his "activity" levels!

The languiage in the link is: - If a guest is using a wheelchair, ECV, or has a tagged stroller they are not eligible to participate in the DAS program.

I interpret that to mean that they won't let you participate in the DAS program (meaning receiving return times) if you only have a stroller as a wheelchair tag. That alone wouldn't make you eligible, you would need a DAS card as well.

I could be wrong, but that seems in line with the poster who was told to get a DAS in addition to having their wheelchair. Otherwise, I would completely agree. The stroller as a wheelchair tag becomes essentially useless to many parents. It was my primary reason for having a GAC when my son was younger, but I wouldn't have wanted to be foreced to choose between the ability to wait for the line elsewhere or to bring my son's stroller into theater shows where he would be much more comfortable in his "cocoon".

 

[OswaldTheRabbit]

The languiage in the link is: - If a guest is using a wheelchair, ECV, or has a tagged stroller they are not eligible to participate in the DAS program.

I interpret that to mean that they won't let you participate in the DAS program (meaning receiving return times) if you only have a stroller as a wheelchair tag. That alone wouldn't make you eligible, you would need a DAS card as well.

I could be wrong, but that seems in line with the poster who was told to get a DAS in addition to having their wheelchair. Otherwise, I would completely agree. The stroller as a wheelchair tag becomes essentially useless to many parents. It was my primary reason for having a GAC when my son was younger, but I wouldn't have wanted to be foreced to choose between the ability to wait for the line elsewhere or to bring my son's stroller into theater shows where he would be much more comfortable in his "cocoon".

This is exactly what I am in need of still! You hit the nail on the head! He is doing better with sensory but loves the shows just from the safety of his stroller.

 

[Gabe1]

It is true that if you have a "stroller as wheelchair" tag then you can not have a DAS?

Please say no...... Please....

These two accommodations are for 2 different needs for an autistic kid. This for us would be a huge issue.

Remember you are reading a blog with this disclaimer:
DISCLAIMER:
PLEASE NOTE THAT THESE ARE PERSONAL OPINIONS BASED UPON INFORMATION PROVIDED TO THE CREATOR OF THIS BLOG. IN NO WAY DOES IT REFLECT THE VIEWS OR OPINIONS OF THE WALT DISNEY COMPANY.

After reading, I would not focus on the stroller, your children's issue would be Autism not that the children use a stroller and that would be the topic I'd be discussing with the CM, not the strollers. The blog goes on to say that Disney will go above and beyond to meet guests needs.

(Make A Wish, is being dealt with separately and those strollers have a different identification system.) What needs to be remembered here is this is similar to magic bands, both start in Beta form and both are being tested. No not similar programs but similar in approach to Beta/Testing. I'm sure there will be situations that need to be rethought or adjusted.

It seems that for guests with mobility issues are the 'focus' of what you read. The way I am interpreting that is if you use a wheelchair, cart or stroller for mobility accommodations Disney seems to be indicating that they have already accommodated 'most' of these guests by making the vast majority of the queues ADA.

Autism is a whole different type of accommodation and Disney worked extensively with Autism advocates when developing this new program. The Autism advocates that worked with Disney have called for calm and asked that the system be given a chance. To me, that lends some credence that Disney and advocates have a master plan for accommodations.


Remember you are reading a blog not a statement from WDW.

 

[eblaz37]

So families that have children that cannot physically wait in line due to the childs inability to understand what is going on and why you said ok lets go ride small world and you get in line and 15 minutes have passed and the child still isnt on small world and the child doesnt understand that they have to wait to have that child break down and freak out and start lashing out where the parents have to try and calm a child down in line where people are staring at them thinking about what a horrible parent they are because they can't control their child and the other children in the family see all of this and hear what people are whispering to each other and get embarrassed about the situation and the parents are now getting beaten up by their child and start loosing it themselves... yep that makes such magical moments.... I hope every one here that doesn't have a child with a disability thinks about that before they make such comments... and yes this happens and yes you may say "oh I would never think that about another parent" but you know you would/do we are only human and who do you think gets more annoyed over GAC abuse then that parents that NEED to use this to have a magical trip for their families because they deserve a magical vacation just as much as every one else

that was the longest run-on I think I've ever seen.

 

[pddmom]

Autism Speaks is the largest (most profitable) autism group, that does not make them the best or even good. I know of a lot of parents of children with autism, myself included, who are not comforted by the fact that Disney is working with Autism Speaks.

 

[natatomic]

You are missing the point.

What startraveler and I are saying is that the old program was applied so guests like us with a genuine need (mobility disabilities that prohibit transfer or make theme severe hardships as in having people lift them into vehicles) and limited resources to accommodate that need had an equal experience to those with no special need at all

That's exactly why I was instructed by CMs to even ask for a GAC so they could more readily accommodate me. I had thought the program was meant only for those with non-physical needs or hidden disabilities. Having a wheelchair of your own, even an expensive power wheelchair and a visible disability that screams inability to transfer was not enough to signify the need for help. Unless you had the card in addition you were not helped.

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure that was the originial intention of the GAC system. Now, the start of the GAC program was before my time, so I don't have first-hand knowledge of its origins, but this is how it has been explained to me by a handful of seasoned cast and leaders:

Originally, those who had mobility issues were supposed to be given the wheelchair stamp GAC only, while those whose disabilities were more mental than physical (or at least, not related to standing, stairs, and whatnot) were the only ones to be given the Alternate Entrance stamp. MK and DHS eventually stopped handing out wheelchair-stamp-only cards because the higher-ups of those particular parks were tired of guests complaining that their card didn't let them go through the FP lines like the cards of others did (this is where much of the abuse got out of hand, since anyone who so much as complained of a sore elbow got an Alternate Entrance GAC at those parks since denying them a GAC can be construed as denying them accommodation and accessibility). As for DAK and Epcot, the wheelchair stamp is still rarely given out, only because the moment those guests are directed to the Standby line thinking they just got their "magic pass," they just go right back to GR, throw a hissy fit, and almost always get their Alternate Entrance stamped GAC. I've seen it waaaay too often. So even at those two parks, wheelchair GACs are almost never handed out, because it's just not worth the inevitable fight with the guest in the future.

So when CMs see a guest like you who has a genuine, obvious disability, they're probably more likely to give you the Alternate Entrance stamp (even though, by strict definition of the stamp per the program, that's not the one you "need") simply because so many people who don't ACTUALLY need it get it so easily by just saying a few key words, that it seems unfair to deny you that same level of accommodation when you so clearly are not one who is abusing/scamming the system.

The sad thing is that guests like you might be hurt by this new DAS program compared to the current GAC system (I only say "might" because I want to wait to see how the DAS works in practice before making too many assumptions, so do report back to us with your experience next week)! However, it does seem like they are trying to run it more closely to how the GACs were originally intended to be run. Just my two cents. Hopefully someone here can correct me if I'm wrong on any of this!

 

[RSoxNo1]

It may increase some, but it won't get up to 30 minutes.

Right, because Disney is too conceited to think that Universal has a far more reasonable system. They wouldn't dare come up with a similar rule because they always have to be "smarter" than the competition.

Giving disabled guests return times that are 5 minutes out (which it sounds like they will do when the wait time is 15 minutes) is an exercise in stupidity. There's a difference between having a program that is "fair to all" and a program that is "fair to all, but also creates unnecessarily stupid waits."

 

[BroganMc]

A lot of those people cannot do steps. So their families come with them to this loading area. Sometimes they take those people to enter at the exit point. Most of the time they just go around me and family since they don't need the car that can be adapted - they just hop on, but they've avoided the steps in the regular line.

Out of curiosity, when do you visit WDW? I thought I'd seen it all at TSM during my visits (Feb, March, April, May, Sep, Oct, December) I've been here during the lull times of Sep and May, the busy times of Spring Break and Columbus Weekend. I even come at the mega busy time of NYE. In all those trips I have never seen a family of non-wheelie guests board at the regular exit at TSM. We all just wait together for those two 6-seater cars.

I did encounter a first last Sunday when a 7-8 person non-wheelie family (I cannot remember exactly how many were in the group) boarded a regular 8-seater vehicle. But that vehicle was brought into the 6-seater loading bay. CMs told me they had the ability to pull up those 8 seaters when the transfers got backed up. Great I thought. I've been asking them to do this since the ride opened.

Every other time in the past that wheelie line gets jammed because they insist on using the same 6-seater for all guests. They just pull out the seat and ready it for a wheelchair or put it back together depending on if they have a transfer or non-transfer guest. I'm often asked to make room for a transfer guest who arrived behind me because there were seats available in the 6 seater for them. Irritates me when that vehicle was loaded with all transfer guests. To be fair to all, CMs make the decision whether it is a transfer or non-transfer vehicle based on the first guest in line.

So if Guest 1 is a transfer, but Guest 2 & 3 are non-transfers while Guest 4 & 5 are transfers, the next vehicle up takes Guests 1, 4 & 5 leaving Guests 2 & 3 waiting for the next vehicle to cycle thru the ride. Guest 3 has to wait for Guest 1, 4 & 5 to return to board.

I had been suggesting forever that they alternate the two wheelchair vehicles with a transfer one, then keep one of the vehicles broken down and ready for a wheelchair. They have the ability to know what sort of demand they have. As soon as you get up the ramp a CM polls the line to find out if you are transfer or non-transfer. It just seemed like this attraction could be handled a lot more efficiently.

Perhaps they made changes since I was last here?