GAC to Become DAS

[arko]

My post is not wrong, it comes from being a parent myself and having a nephew who is mentally handicapped. Please take a read @Aurora1 's post as she clearly got exactly what I was sayings! Thank you @Aurora1 for explaining that...I hope more people take into consideration what you wrote...

My nephews teacher told my brother in law the same thing about outbursts. as much of struggle it is, and as a parent, not doing anything to try and correct the problem is worse for the said child. It might be a little more frustrating To deal with, but a parent should never give up on their child and no matter what the circumstances are, should always try to correct said bad behaviors even if it seems impossible.

Every child is different and reacts in different ways to therapy and treatment. My point is its not always simple and quick and what works with one child may not work with another. Please don't make the assumption that these children have meltdowns because parents have not tried anything and everything to prevent them.
My son is 13 now and is verbal and meltdowns are far and few between. He attends regular classes with an aid, and is active in a Boy Scout troop, but none of that changes the fact that he is still autistic, he has just learned coping mechanisms to deal with many things you and I take for granted. And it took years to get him to this point and its still no guarantee that an outburst or meltdown won't occur.
Most parents of autistic children learn fairly quickly what triggers an outburst and learn to avoid those things or work around them.

 

[arko]

Anytime! It's definitely more of a challenge to attempt to correct the problem, but my students whose parents put in a TON of effort often seem to come back years later with the best updates about how much their child has improved... and some of them were the "worst" behaviorally earlier on.

You have proved my point exactly, it wasn't just 4 times and done, it was in some case years of effort. and I bet there are some kids that despite tons of effort don't improve as much.

 

[Gabe1]

Anytime! It's definitely more of a challenge to attempt to correct the problem, but my students whose parents put in a TON of effort often seem to come back years later with the best updates about how much their child has improved... and some of them were the "worst" behaviorally earlier on.

As a BOE member for many years I've rarely heard that. It warmed my heart. More often than not the burden is shifted to the schools for 7 hours a day. More a parent coping mechanism that I am not lacking empathy for.I see teachers send home homework like all the students receive in the inclusion classroom and it comes back undone the next day. Often with a note he/she didn't understand, please refer to special ed coordinator. And that is where I waffle on inclusion. I favor inclusion if all parties involved are committed. When that commitment isn't there it isn't fair to the classroom, student or teacher.

The parents that work with their special needs children at home, as parents of general education students also do, often have the most positive outcomes. I have a friend who has twin boys. He is a middle school teacher in district, his children are not. One son is beyond gifted and general ed. The other son has Aspergers syndrome. One DS had a 33 on his ACT and the other a 35. Would this have happened without my friend setting goals with boundaries and a lot of tough commitment. No. The general education student went away to college. The young man with Aspergers commutes to a local, amazing University in Chicago. It is a long commute but he needs to come home, to his room and study.

They too love Disney. He never went the DAC route. From young the family step by step taught coping/consequences. At times unfortunately he or his wife would need to go back to the resort or find a quiet place for a while. Each year the coping mechanisms grew. Likely that type of parenting commitment had a lot to do with the young mans success so far.

What I am thankful for is Make A Wish Children are going to be serviced differently. Their needs medically are prearranged along with their transportation and housing. Disney and Make A Wish have hammered out the issues thought out time and work well together.

 

[arko]

Nope. That's a cop-out... A 'you need to walk a day in my shoes' deal. I have dealt with family members who were disabled on a daily basis in the past. I know how difficult that can be and I have empathy for those who do.

But that isn't what the ADA is about at all. People use that in Disney discussions to justify all sorts of things ... 'my child can't stand crowds' -.then what kind of godawful parent are you for taking them to one of the most crowded places possible? ...or 'my sister can't handle foreign smells or loud noises' -- then why on earth would you take her to WDW? It usually comes down to selfishness on the parts of people who are not disabled, but have loved ones who are.

I don't find your post insulting at all and I agree that it would be nice if only the needy -- the truly needy -- used the passes. But we have an entitlement society, bastardized capitalism fosters that, but is a whole 'another discussion.

And Disney's system was never designed to go above and beyond. It was supposed to be fair and help the needy and it morphed into something entirely different. 25 years agony simply didn't have people going to City Hall claiming my child has (fill in the blank) and can't wait in lines. You just didn't.

And when you allow anyone and everyone to get a pass, it's sorta like what I see at the local Chipotle. Despite living in an extremely affluent community, everytime I am there a good 75% of the people are getting water cups and filling them with Coke or lemonade because they know they can blatantly steal in front of the workers and never get called on.

People are going to get away with whatever they can. I am sure Disney loves it everytime I post that company policy is to allow shoplifting in the parks.

Do I believe there are good people out there? Yes. Do I believe they're vastly outnumbered? Yes again.

Do I believe that the situation would get exponentially worse if Disney did nothing. Absolutely. Don't like it? Make the world a better place starting in your community ...

As someone who has used it for my son, I knew exactly that this wasn't something that Disney had to do, it was something they chose to do. We used it when we needed it and didn't when it wasn't necessary, but in the end we usually ended up going on at most 8 rides in one day, simply because GAC or no GAC there are just some rides my son will never go on and it has nothing to do with waiting in line.
But even I won't argue the point that Disney could have just let it continue, especially once it became a PR disaster with the Today show reports etc.
As for why people would take their kids to Disney, I can only speak from my own experience. I remember our first trip when he was 4, it was a bit of a disaster, even with a GAC he simply wouldn't go on any rides ,and didn't like the loud noises. So we pretty much gave up on Disney despite living only 3 hours away. But about 2 years later he got his hands on a Disney planning dvd and watched over and over again and over again and (well you get the idea). And low and behold he told us he wanted to go Disney again. So we went and figured it would be another case of walking around the park and not doing anything, but to our surprise he actually went on rides, and I quickly realized the rides he wanted to go on were rides that he saw in the dvd, and nothing else. It was simply because by seeing in the dvd what he couldn't see the first time the unknown factor was removed and he knew what he was getting into. Was it event free was it perfect not by a long shot. He walked around with big blue noise cancelling earphones but he didn't care. he even got over an irrational fear of movie theaters just because he wanted to see Mickeys Philharmagic so much. And with repeated trips he became more tolerant of crowds in general, so despite the difficulties he enjoyed himself, and the flexibility of the GAC certainly made it less stressful. Did i feel like some kind of celebrity no, did we go on unlimited rides, well not even close, I would say on average even with a GAC we did far less than your average family, but the GAC helped us make the most of less.

 

[Sped2424]

You don't get it... And I'm tired of spelling everything out. Your suggestion is not legal. Period

Thats fine, but you still offer no real advice to improving the system.

 

[nytimez]

You don't get it... And I'm tired of spelling everything out. Your suggestion is not legal. Period

Wait, are you actually tired of an argument? Is this a first?

Thats fine, but you still offer no real advice to improving the system.

Can we see the new system in action before we can actually decide what would constitute an improvement?

 

[misterID]

I'm really glad I didn't log in for most of this discussion. uggghhh...

Maybe they can issue the cards through whatever organization the disabled belong to? Maybe give them discounted park tickets? I don't know, I wish I had the best answer. I'm glad they're doing something, but something isn't always the best thing. I don't understand, when the disabled are severly limited on what attractions they ride to begin with, you're limiting them even more.

And don't worry, there are still those Make A Wish kids you can begrudge getting that better vacation than you. Think I'm exaggerating? Those kids get ugly looks and snide remarks, too.

 

[Aurora1]

As a BOE member for many years I've rarely heard that. It warmed my heart. More often than not the burden is shifted to the schools for 7 hours a day. More a parent coping mechanism that I am not lacking empathy for.I see teachers send home homework like all the students receive in the inclusion classroom and it comes back undone the next day. Often with a note he/she didn't understand, please refer to special ed coordinator. And that is where I waffle on inclusion. I favor inclusion if all parties involved are committed. When that commitment isn't there it isn't fair to the classroom, student or teacher.

The parents that work with their special needs children at home, as parents of general education students also do, often have the most positive outcomes. I have a friend who has twin boys. He is a middle school teacher in district, his children are not. One son is beyond gifted and general ed. The other son has Aspergers syndrome. One DS had a 33 on his ACT and the other a 35. Would this have happened without my friend setting goals with boundaries and a lot of tough commitment. No. The general education student went away to college. The young man with Aspergers commutes to a local, amazing University in Chicago. It is a long commute but he needs to come home, to his room and study.

They too love Disney. He never went the DAC route. From young the family step by step taught coping/consequences. At times unfortunately he or his wife would need to go back to the resort or find a quiet place for a while. Each year the coping mechanisms grew. Likely that type of parenting commitment had a lot to do with the young mans success so far.

What I am thankful for is Make A Wish Children are going to be serviced differently. Their needs medically are prearranged along with their transportation and housing. Disney and Make A Wish have hammered out the issues thought out time and work well together.

I love hearing stories like that! It's definitely hard as a teacher to see the disconnect with some families between what they want the school to do for their child (set boundaries etc.) and what they actually feel they need to do at home (appease their kid). It's a daily challenge, but those parents that really take on the challenge end up often having the best experiences in the long run. Giving a child free reign to indulge in avoiding everything that sets them off doesn't help them in the long run. As much as it might add stress to a trip, a child's lifelong well being is definitely most important

 

[minninedaisy74]

Doesn't this new system give people exactly what they were claiming they were looking for on countless GAC discussion threads on Disney related boards? How many people have said all they really need is a less crowded area to wait because the regular line is just too crowded, over stimulating and often times to stressful for their child? This new system gives them exactly what they claim to be looking for in way of a accommodations.

 

[Goofyernmost]

As someone who has used it for my son, I knew exactly that this wasn't something that Disney had to do, it was something they chose to do. We used it when we needed it and didn't when it wasn't necessary, but in the end we usually ended up going on at most 8 rides in one day, simply because GAC or no GAC there are just some rides my son will never go on and it has nothing to do with waiting in line.
But even I won't argue the point that Disney could have just let it continue, especially once it became a PR disaster with the Today show reports etc.
As for why people would take their kids to Disney, I can only speak from my own experience. I remember our first trip when he was 4, it was a bit of a disaster, even with a GAC he simply wouldn't go on any rides ,and didn't like the loud noises. So we pretty much gave up on Disney despite living only 3 hours away. But about 2 years later he got his hands on a Disney planning dvd and watched over and over again and over again and (well you get the idea). And low and behold he told us he wanted to go Disney again. So we went and figured it would be another case of walking around the park and not doing anything, but to our surprise he actually went on rides, and I quickly realized the rides he wanted to go on were rides that he saw in the dvd, and nothing else. It was simply because by seeing in the dvd what he couldn't see the first time the unknown factor was removed and he knew what he was getting into. Was it event free was it perfect not by a long shot. He walked around with big blue noise cancelling earphones but he didn't care. he even got over an irrational fear of movie theaters just because he wanted to see Mickeys Philharmagic so much. And with repeated trips he became more tolerant of crowds in general, so despite the difficulties he enjoyed himself, and the flexibility of the GAC certainly made it less stressful. Did i feel like some kind of celebrity no, did we go on unlimited rides, well not even close, I would say on average even with a GAC we did far less than your average family, but the GAC helped us make the most of less.

I think it is great that over time, things got better. However, one important aspect, besides GAC, is that every year your son was also older. He was better on the second trip because, he knew what was happening and the fear element was gone. He also was two years older and had access to information that apparently was essential to his improved enjoyment of Disney.

I don't think it is really measurable how much GAC was the contributing factor over maturing. If you take your first disaster trip scenario it didn't help at all. It amounted to nothing. Only maturing and information improved the situation. In that case, the GAC was worthless. He might have also handled the second trip as well without a GAC card, you don't know if you didn't try.

There are so few brave small children in the world today that you can almost count them on the finger of one hand. A lot of what you have described, whether labeled as autistic or not, really is normal child like behavior. Common with every child under the age of the ability to think in abstract terms (different in each child). So that leads to the question...are those accommodations really helpful or are they just a way to cope with a child as he or she matures. If it is the later then as nice as it may seem there is another method that works and is also more fair to all parties involved, your child, yourself and the others around you. Don't go there until your child is old enough or mature enough to handle the massive amounts of stimuli that a place like WDW generates. It would be easier on them, on you and on the general public if you did.

I think that your story fortifies that once the child is the one that decides that they want to go to a place like Disney, all of a sudden the melt downs diminish and the enjoyment enhances. I have to wholeheartedly agree with what @WDW1974 stated. If I ever felt that taking my child to a place that contained everything that upset him/her the most (i.e. crowds, noise, unknowns), I'm not sure whom one is more concerned about, themselves or their child. It doesn't seem like a very loving thing to do. Experience things sure, that is crucial to life, but when they can handle it, not before. The old statement of "well, look at all the parents that force their children on rides" really isn't the same thing. In that case they know their children and realize that they most likely will like it once they get there. In the case of autism, you already know they won't so why would you insist on forcing that issue.

 

[flynnibus]

Wait, are you actually tired of an argument? Is this a first?

It takes awareness to know when you can't help them any further

 

[fosse76]

Actually no the language is quite clear as detailed in section 36.302 section c

That is SOLELY related to inquiries when there is a service animal present and subsequently identified.

edit found another example

36.311 section c

And that is solely related to the presence of a wheelchair or other aide. A service animal or wheelchair are clear indicators of a disability, and businesses do not need to make any inquiries as to the nature of the disability because any accomodation is most likely going to be related to the physical restrictions of those aides. If I were to walk into Macy's and tell someone I can't wait in the line to pay for my selected items, they have every right to make inquiries into any reason I may have. The purpose of these sections is to NOT question the legitimacy of the disability. In my example, there is no present disability, and a business needs information to determine the level of accomodation.

 

[fosse76]

@arko Personally, put the ADA incharge of the GAC. They can ask for criteria.If you belong to, let's for example the National Kidney Foundation, you have to show your membership. If they're adding employees to carry this out, bring in some reps from the ADA to handle the GAC service. That way there is no abuse. Problem solved.

The ADA is a law, not an agency. Its enforcement is through civil litigation, and to a lesser extent, the justice department.

 

[Gabe1]

If you've read through the novel that is this thread, you'll have seen my stance on the issue and that I'm for the change. I do however see room for improvement.

As to the issue of waiting in line each day to get an new DAS, I understand that could and most likely will be a problem. I do see a simple solution though. Instead of everyone having to get a new ID every day, why not link it to your ticket or MB as someone else suggested. I say take it a step further. If you're staying on property, why not set this up at hotel check-in. It seems to me that it would be fairly simple to set up, and would alleviate the line at the park. Added benefit for Disney is more onsite hotel guests as this service would only be available to them (and perhaps AP holders). If you're staying off-site you would still need to get the ID in the park.

Possibly, IF you are speaking to the genuine in need guest. Unfortunately the change is being implemented for the abuse and part of the abuse was the length of time issued for. Flipside, one wait daily instead of waits all day long like the balance of guests??? Still a magical perk offered by Disney. I just don't believe obtaining a pass each day is an overt hardship. Not a bad trade off considering the impact this has on the balance of the general guests. I have faith most DAS guests will still be appreciative, endure gracefully the line once a day without too much ranting to help elevate the abuse so the general guest vacations stop being impacted they way they are with GAC.

Disney just like schools, government etc., have to create bureaucracy when others cheat and abuse the system. The innocent and rule followers unfortunately have to pay the price for the sinners. This isn't just GAC, look at the change orders for the never expiring multi day passes. We all took a hit because of the resale of a small percentage. The refill cups too, now restrictive because of abuse and guests cheating the system.

 

[ddrongowski]

I actually know of some people that purposely abused the GAC at WDW. I was mentioning this subject to my father as I am headed to WDW shortly and before I could finish what I was going to say. He states "When your mom and I took Sasha and Lana ("adopted" not blood family, in other words friendly strangers), to WDW we used it skip the lines...". In a nut shell my mother was overweight and does not like to walk, she was very capable of walking, just didn't want to. They rented a wheel chair at WDW (they never bought her own, ever). They then got a GAC and abused it. How did they abuse it. Well neither my father or mother like rides and would not ride the rides. The part that upset me the most is his attitude of it was great being given this honor over the masses.
I am very glad that Disney is going to make it were the DAS person "has to" actually ride the ride to use the DAS. This will help those that actually need the DAS because the abusers, like what my parents did, will be stopped.

 

[ddrongowski]

There is a difference between waiting in a long line full of people, when the line is not moving or break downs etc etc etc than being on a ride vehicle with your family. Why he enjoys the rides themselves I honestly don't know, ask Michel also the stimulation that comes from a ride, and the stimulation that comes from being surrounded by a lot of different people in a small area are not the same.

Thank you for the information, very informative.

 

[Gabe1]

The ADA is a law, not an agency. Its enforcement is through civil litigation, and to a lesser extent, the justice department.

True, for the most part. The Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board, an independent Federal agency for all new construction. It governs accessibility not above and beyond provisions like GAC and DAS. Disney is offering additional assistance beyond accessibility. Federal Labor and Human resources cover employee issues. For local and private sector issues with the general public venues have an appointed Compliance Officer to deal with accessibility issues. Compliance Officer is the first stop for enforcement. They must have a contact available and protocol for complaints and requests.

Very few areas of WDW property are not ADA compliant through the main entrances. If DAC and DAS ever becomes too big of a headache or if guests become too demanding for additional services beyond ADA requirements Disney can discontinue DAS all together aside from the few attractions that are not accessible.

 

[flynnibus]

Very few areas of WDW property are not ADA compliant through the main entrances. If DAC and DAS ever becomes too big of a headache or if guests become too demanding for additional services beyond ADA requirements Disney can discontinue DAS all together aside from the few attractions that are not accessible.

No no no... my god people... accessible design is not the limit of what the ADA requires. It's PART of the ADA - not it's full extent. I feel like a broken record... I need to put a webpage together for Disney fans pulling this together because obviously they don't do their own basic research.

ADA accessibility requirements are not the only thing a business is responsible to meet. Disney needs a program like DAS or similar even if every space on property were built to ADA compliance. Period, fact, truth, no debate. Accessibility is only one facet. Disney needs such a program because it will never empower or trust CMs to make the judgement calls themselves.

 

[OswaldTheRabbit]

Just an FYI- I called the number on the disability page of WDW and spoke to a great CM (she fields all the disability calls) and asked about these changes.

She has not heard of it yet so they are a while off of implementing in WDW. She confirmed with her manager who directly works on the disability/public relations that is wasn't coming soon. The CM has a low functioning autistic child (we got to talking about our sons) and just went the other night with a GAC.

She assured me that it will not roll out before out vacation (10/31-11/10). She also spoke with her manager.

Just wanted to give an update.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just an FYI- I called the number on the disability page of WDW and spoke to a great CM (she fields all the disability calls) and asked about these changes.

She has not heard of it yet so they are a while off of implementing in WDW. She confirmed with her manager who directly works on the disability/public relations that is wasn't coming soon. The CM has a low functioning autistic child (we got to talking about our sons) and just went the other night with a GAC.

She assured me that it will not roll out before out vacation (10/31-11/10). She also spoke with her manager.

Just wanted to give an update.

To be fair, Disney rarely confirms these sorts of reports before they are announced. As such, front line employees will not be informed of these [proposed] changes.