GAC to Become DAS

[Gabe1]

No no no... my god people... accessible design is not the limit of what the ADA requires. It's PART of the ADA - not it's full extent. I feel like a broken record... I need to put a webpage together for Disney fans pulling this together because obviously they don't do their own basic research.

ADA accessibility requirements are not the only thing a business is responsible to meet. Disney needs a program like DAS or similar even if every space on property were built to ADA compliance. Period, fact, truth, no debate. Accessibility is only one facet. Disney needs such a program because it will never empower or trust CMs to make the judgement calls themselves.

No. That is not correct. You are limiting your scope of ADA to mean physical disabilities and that makes your post erroneous. It is not the responsibility of the DAS or GAC, it is the Compliance Officers responsibility to set standards and make provisions and Human resource departments responsibility to train CMs. These same CMs that handle GAC will follow the provisions set forth by the compliance officer for DAS and supervisors and coordinators will be trained by Human Resources and Compliance and in turn retrain the front line CMs to the new, altered program. The program is already designed and training has begun.

I am disabled. I am hearing impaired. Elsewhere I go to the compliance officer when I need a venue to be compliant (in advance as not to throw a monkey wrench.) At Disney it isn't an issue. They have in place all over the property for my ADA needs including the four parks, Disney is ADA compliant for the hearing impaired. They have maps, devices, visual and audio guides. They don't need DAC or DAS to be compliant they already are. As an example their sign language CMs are thoughly tested and must pass specific tests before the designation is placed on their ID tag on their costume. DAS and GAC is strictly a front line CM extension of services designed by the Compliance division.

Every so often something else surfaces at WDW. Segways being a good example. The courts found Disney to already be ADA compliant enough though were required to offer additional carts for standing vs sitting, this will always happen as tech moves forward. Disney also had to make adjustments to their offerings for both braille and counters recently along with additional, more convenient relief areas for service dogs and crating. This is the job of compliance officer/courts not DAC or DAS.

Already being compliant, DAC and DAS is an additional service not a requirement by law.

 

[flynnibus]

No. That is not correct. You are limiting your scope of ADA to mean physical disabilities and that makes your post erroneous

Actually it's 100% the opposite.. and why I'm saying ADA accessible != your organization is ADA compliant.

People keep acting like 'DCA is wheelchair accessible.. so we're done here' - no, that is false. Disney still needs to provide accommodations for all other covered disabilities.. and doing so rarely has to do with if a queue is handicap accessible.

. It is not the responsibility of the DAS or GAC, it is the Compliance Officers responsibility to set standards and make provisions and Human resource departments responsibility to train CMs. These same CMs that handle GAC will follow the provisions set forth by the compliance officer for DAS and supervisors and coordinators will be trained by Human Resources and Compliance and in turn retrain the front line CMs to the new, altered program. The program is already designed and training has begun.

That is a very long winded way to say 'Disney still must provide accommodations'. GAC/DAS/whatever is just Disney's process to handle communication and generic accommodations. As you say, Disney must still provide accommodation to the disabled... how they make them available is up to them to design as long as it meets the standards and expectations outlined in the law.

"compliance officer" is just some made up label to ID a person responsible for oversight of how the requirements are handled within an organization.

I am disabled. I am hearing impaired. Elsewhere I go to the compliance officer when I need a venue to be compliant (in advance as not to throw a monkey wrench.) At Disney it isn't an issue. They have in place all over the property for my ADA needs including the four parks, Disney is ADA compliant for the hearing impaired. They have maps, devices, visual and audio guides. They don't need DAC or DAS to be compliant they already are

For your particular disability... yes. But what about someone else's?

They are seen as compliant by their OFFERINGS - not just because of their compliance with the ADA Standards of Accessible Design.

Already being compliant, DAC and DAS is an additional service not a requirement by law.

Without something like GAC or DAS - they would not be compliant with the law if they did not provide reasonable accommodations for covered disabilities. Simply complying with the Standards of Accessible Design is not enough. The braille menus you listed is a good example. The problem is you can't build everything out ahead of time (like a braille menu) for all disabilities. That is why organizations must be willing and able to make accommodations upon request... be those addition offerings, flexibility in policies, or alternates.

Most places deal with this by simply having you ASK, and they provide a solution. Disney doesn't trust or train it's CMs well enough to do that.. so they wrap up a model like GAC or DAS to try to fit every possibility into standardized accommodations.

Some of the accommodation Disney provides are above and beyond the law - no doubt. But Disney must have a way of dealing with these requests... it's not option or an 'additional service'. Just the way Disney has packaged it's attempts are 'optional'

Being 'ADA complaint' is just as much about your POLICIES as it is your physical buildout and accessibility devices you offer.

 

[Gabe1]

Actually it's 100% the opposite.. and why I'm saying ADA accessible != your organization is ADA compliant.

People keep acting like 'DCA is wheelchair accessible.. so we're done here' - no, that is false. Disney still needs to provide accommodations for all other covered disabilities.. and doing so rarely has to do with if a queue is handicap accessible.



That is a very long winded way to say 'Disney still must provide accommodations'. GAC/DAS/whatever is just Disney's process to handle communication and generic accommodations. As you say, Disney must still provide accommodation to the disabled... how they make them available is up to them to design as long as it meets the standards and expectations outlined in the law.

"compliance officer" is just some made up label to ID a person responsible for oversight of how the requirements are handled within an organization.



For your particular disability... yes. But what about someone else's?

They are compliant without GAC/DAS. Take the buses for example. Do you need a GAC/DAS for

They are seen as compliant by their OFFERINGS - not just because of their compliance with the ADA Standards of Accessible Design.



Without something like GAC or DAS - they would not be compliant with the law if they did not provide reasonable accommodations for covered disabilities. Simply complying with the Standards of Accessible Design is not enough. The braille menus you listed is a good example. The problem is you can't build everything out ahead of time (like a braille menu) for all disabilities. That is why organizations must be willing and able to make accommodations upon request... be those addition offerings, flexibility in policies, or alternates.

Most places deal with this by simply having you ASK, and they provide a solution. Disney doesn't trust or train it's CMs well enough to do that.. so they wrap up a model like GAC or DAS to try to fit every possibility into standardized accommodations.

Some of the accommodation Disney provides are above and beyond the law - no doubt. But Disney must have a way of dealing with these requests... it's not option or an 'additional service'. Just the way Disney has packaged it's attempts are 'optional'

Being 'ADA complaint' is just as much about your POLICIES as it is your physical buildout and accessibility devices you offer.

GAC or DAS has nothing to do with being compliant with accessibility Disney is without the little ID card. If it disappeared tomorrow WDW would still be compliant with accessibility. I can get on the bus and read the sign without GAC or DAS. If I were blind there is audio stating where my transportation is depositing me. No need for DAS or GAC. The buses and monorails can handle physical disabilities. Resorts do not have to offer you a special room close to dining or transportion because of your disability or honor that request for one, the ADA rooms are scattered throughout resorts. New construction has this all built into the resorts and attractions from menus and tech. I can take my DH through the parks in a wheelchair without GAC or DAS extra because the parks are compliant with accessibility. CMs in reality could have guests wait until their turn to be loaded onto an attraction. Reality is that is harder for Disney and easier just to load and be done. It would horrible and illegal if Disney or any other Corp. forced guests to acquire an ID let alone have their picture on it. It is a voluntary extra, not legislated. ADA is inclusion not a guarantee to be offered better experiences than the general population. Disney being consumer friendly goes the extra mile to accommodate but that is not required by American Disability Act and that is where you seem to be getting confused. These magical passes offer special services that Disney doesn't have to offer or comply with.

I worked for a major airlines in special services. We were required to comply and get passengers seated. I'd often seat disabled parties in First Class when seats were available. It was a perk for the passenger, easier for them and me. In no way was the airline required to upgrade their experience. We were required to get them to the seat they paid for, no more.

In reality many corporations go above and beyond what is required by law. This is Disney with GAC. A good deed that Disney does voluntarily. They do not have to do this for guests. It is a First World Issue when guests believe it is their Right to skip lines with their entire party. I'm not apposed to it when warranted but it should be regarded as and appreciated as a special service not a human rights issue to line jump.

 

[misterID]

The ADA is a law, not an agency. Its enforcement is through civil litigation, and to a lesser extent, the justice department.

Oh, I think you know what I mean.

http://www.aapd.com/

http://adanet.org/

 

[flynnibus]

GAC or DAS has nothing to do with being compliant with accessibility Disney is without the little ID card. If it disappeared tomorrow WDW would still be compliant with accessibility

Not without operational policies that would empower CMs to accommodate other disabilities.

Accommodating mental or other physical issues like sun exposure wouldn't be covered without policies beyond the accessibility build out of the resort with hearing, sight, and mobility impairments.

Much of what Disney does today is rolled under the GAC model. Does it have to be? No.. but they do have to have policies to allow accommodations for disabilities not addressed with the physical build out of the resort.

If I were blind there is audio stating where my transportation is depositing me. No need for DAS or GAC

No, but you would have to have policy that would allow the blind person to get assistance... such as simply allowing the bus driver telling them when their stop is.

The buses and monorails can handle physical disabilities. Resorts do not have to offer you a special room close to dining or transportion because of your disability or honor that request for one, the ADA rooms are scattered throughout resorts

Accommodations is not just about what room they give you... stop thinking physical handicaps are all they need to cover.

It would horrible and illegal if Disney or any other Corp. forced guests to acquire an ID let alone have their picture on it. It is a voluntary extra, not legislated

It's not illegal to the letter of the law (as it's not explicitly forbidden) and it will have to be up to a court to decide if it's a burden that is too great.

Disney's current policies regarding showing a disability pass before they will let you use an elevator to get to a ride is a great example to show how in Disney's implementation it is NOT a 'voluntary extra'.

I worked for a major airlines in special services. We were required to comply and get passengers seated. I'd often seat disabled parties in First Class when seats were available. It was a perk for the passenger, easier for them and me. In no way was the airline required to upgrade their experience. We were required to get them to the seat they paid for, no more.

Sure - but you weren't addressing a specific disability with your generic actions. Just like Disney decided the 'just give them a line cut' was a generic way to address most needs without being burdened to address each need individually. Giving up on that policy of 'putting them in first class' does not absolve you from having to provide a reasonable accommodation It may be less than you did before, but you still gotta accommodate the specific limitation the person has.

 

[WDWLOVER1957]

Then educate me.

Not my job to educate you, you can do that yourself.

 

[flynnibus]

I fully expect someone to take Disney to court over the model as it's proposed right now. Mainly on the idea of 'registering' people, and the need to go back and forth to get stamps. People will argue this is a burden normal guests do not have to do, so you are discriminating against them by not giving them another accommodation that wouldn't single them out with additional burdens.

It would be a good landmark case too as it would plainly address the idea of having disabled people get registered (and not just simply pick up a pass or device or register for the sake of a security deposit..) to get their accommodations. The 'walking back and forth' aspect is another difficult one for Disney.. but again something I believe they think they will minimize with MDE.

I think there are merits to the points... to a degree.. but more so because it's got such potential for a sympathy battle. 'Poor little johnny can't see Mickey anymore since the big evil corporation put these draconian rules in place...'. That and people want their green stamps back

 

[AEfx]

This is precisely the type of response that prevents this conversation from actually being productive. Let me ask you this, why shouldn't people cheer that folks who have been abusing a system intended to help disable children and adults are being stopped? If I were a family who used the GAC, I'd be happy to see abusers stopped.

What I was saying was sick and disgusting is people saying things like:

"They call it a dis-ability for a reason" and "Disney isn't for everyone."

Those are EXACT quotes from this thread.

The utter joy some people were expressing, with indifference to those that don't have the same blessings in life they do, over an issue that is simply something that really didn't effect anyone, it was the "principle" they were about and getting satisfaction out of something that really had no effect on their vacations. All the numbers people keep spouting about how much it is abused are from DISNEYLAND, not WDW. Disneyland is a wholly different beast because on the average weekend day, there are more passholders (who, if they abuse the system, abuse it with a lot more regularity because they go more often) than day guests.

If anyone thinks that wait times at WDW are going to change in any noticeable way they are in Fantasyland...

And, if you actually read my posts before people got so brutal, I have said over and over - NO ONE hates the abusers more than families who legitimately used a GAC. No one. But it's hard to cheer when the fringe that abused it (and, make no mistake, at WDW it was the fringe) it may be more difficult to abuse, but it makes it a lot more convoluted and difficult for everyone.

Not everything is black and white, someone could cheer that an abuser is stopped while also worrying about the future for legitimate cases.

And how many posts expressed that sentiment? Very very few. The most are "YAY!!!!" because it gives people some personal satisfaction to see the "cheaters" supposedly lose, and don't care about the collateral damage.

Regardless, it's all empty, because no one is going to see any change at WDW except for the guests who now have a much more convoluted system to navigate. The "cheaters" will still cheat, folks - they just won't be able to cheat quite as much.

Also, what are your precise concerns with this new system, it sounds to me like it will work just as well for allowing disable guests to see the parks.

The system just got more complicated and convoluted for people that already have to plan every moment of the day. It makes going to even the bathroom more difficult. While most restrooms at WDW have so-called "handicapped" stalls, the majority of them cannot be used by someone who needs a companion for assistance. There is only one to two restrooms in the ENTIRE park that generally make it possible. Just planning around getting to those is a chore in and of itself, and now one has to worry a whole new level of scheduling. People simply have no idea what it's like to have to have a "plan of attack" for every single attraction that requires people to transfer to the ride vehicle - the worry, the danger, etc. No clue. Adding yet another thing to plan around and make things even more convoluted is going to be difficult.

I'll never convince the folks that this issue has absolutely nothing tangible to do with (aside from anecdotal "I once had to wait for a handicapped person...I don't think they were really handicapped"), of any of this - those folks that have gone on for pages and pages who really don't have a clue what they are talking about. At many attractions, people who need to use an alternate entrance because of mobility WAIT LONGER, because they have to wait for an attraction host to be available to lead them, or they have to wait for an accessible vehicle. Some it's less. So at the end of the day, it basically evened out before - particularly because it takes so much longer for us to take a bathroom break (minimum half hour) and just to get from one attraction to another. It wasn't some "FOTL" pass like some folks (most folks it seems) think. But I will never convince them, and they will just pull irrelevant numbers from Disneyland to "prove" their point.

That's pretty much all I can say, I'm sure the people who have made a career out of commenting about this change will argue, but I know what's truth - my family lives it. "But you can just...but you can just..." is all theoretical nonsense because they have no idea what it already was like. In truth, this whole issue is really some folk's hostility towards people with mental disabilities (who think if your kid doesn't like to wait in lines, they need to be more patient, etc. and just think it's bad parenting) and really ignore how difficult this is for people with physical disabilities when it already was an extreme effort to begin with.

But most folks in this thread will never understand, and you just can't give actual reasons and facts and experiences with people who are on a crusade because they somehow think that they have been shafted in the past - when I can promise you that wait times at WDW are not going to change one minute for anyone overall because of this. The way people talk, it's like Space and Splash will be walk-ons for everyone because so many people used GAC at WDW. It's a complete fantasy.

 

[minninedaisy74]

I fully expect someone to take Disney to court over the model as it's proposed right now. Mainly on the idea of 'registering' people, and the need to go back and forth to get stamps. People will argue this is a burden normal guests do not have to do, so you are discriminating against them by not giving them another accommodation that wouldn't single them out with additional burdens.

It would be a good landmark case too as it would plainly address the idea of having disabled people get registered (and not just simply pick up a pass or device or register for the sake of a security deposit..) to get their accommodations. The 'walking back and forth' aspect is another difficult one for Disney.. but again something I believe they think they will minimize with MDE.

I think there are merits to the points... to a degree.. but more so because it's got such potential for a sympathy battle. 'Poor little johnny can't see Mickey anymore since the big evil corporation put these draconian rules in place...'. That and people want their green stamps back

So then could a law suit just make Disney do away with the GAC/DAS all together? The article I read is saying that people with mobility issues (in a wheelchair/EVC) will go through the regular queue, as most of the rides are wheelchair assessable now and hat DAS will not be given for wheelchairs. Is there something in the ADA that states accommodations need to be made for those that have mental disabilities that would cause undo stress by making them wait in a crowded line? I am asking because I don't see how a law suit of this nature would be ethical since the DAS is really just a perk Disney offers not a right of a guest . No one is making them register if they don't want and they certainly aren't discriminating against anyone.

 

[TubaGeek]

Not my job to educate you, you can do that yourself.

You must have been top-dog in your high school debate class.
Look, I am an open-minded guy who is more than happy to admit when I'm wrong. I've read literally every post on this thread, and the only point I can find that I agree with AGAINST the new system is that they don't bother writing a re-admission pass if the wait isn't below 15 minutes.

 

[Tom Morrow]

The utter joy some people were expressing, with indifference to those that don't have the same blessings in life they do, over an issue that is simply something that really didn't effect anyone, it was the "principle" they were about and getting satisfaction out of something that really had no effect on their vacations. All the numbers people keep spouting about how much it is abused are from DISNEYLAND, not WDW.

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. MANY People have posted their own experiences with working with GAC at WDW. Attractions are tallying the number of GACs per hour at WDW. IT IS EXACTLY AS BAD AS IT IS IN DISNEYLAND.

The abuse ABSOLUTELY DOES HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT ON EVERYONE'S TIME AT WDW AND DISNEYLAND. Again, if it was NOT then Disney would NOT bother changing it!

But you know, keep sitting there behind your computer assuming you know more than the people who actually work with this stuff on a day to day basis.

God this thread makes me want to rip my hair out.

 

[AEfx]

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. MANY People have posted their own experiences with working with GAC at WDW. Attractions are tallying the number of GACs per hour at WDW. IT IS EXACTLY AS BAD AS IT IS IN DISNEYLAND.

The abuse ABSOLUTELY DOES HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT ON EVERYONE'S TIME AT WDW AND DISNEYLAND.

But you know, keep sitting there behind your computer assuming you know more than the people who actually work with this stuff on a day to day basis.

God this thread makes me want to rip my hair out.

We are even, it makes me want to puke.

"Their own experiences" are not statistics. Until Disney releases them, it's all gossip and fodder.

You can yell all you want - but if you think wait times are suddenly going to change, you are delusional.

I believe this board covers much more than WDW and its interesting that you say the GAC program is not an issue and in the face of facts that disprove it, you simply dismiss them as not credible.

Show me one statistic or fact that this impacted anything at WDW. The only numbers out there were obtained in a non-official manner by a fansite and in regards to Disneyland.

We all know that WDW will do anything to cut costs when are where it can. This new program as outlined will take more manpower than the other system which will cost WDW more labor to staff the various kiosks throughout the park. WDW believes it is a big enough issue to increase labor costs to put this system in place.

They were shamed into it by a report of a COMPANY acting illegally.

But I'm not going to keep repeating myself. I have answered all these questions already, but folks like yourself simply will never get it, and don't think I will ever get it, so it's useless - if there was any way I could I would simply "unsub" from this thread as I am tired of getting alerts from it from people who have no actual data and have never had the experience and simply keep replying to my posts from days ago. And I've just made it worse.

If anyone here knew me they would know I am the last person to cry about "unfair!" (which actually i have yet to say). But when I see post after post from people who simply do not know how the system actually worked, and are on a crusade about this thinking some great justice has been done it would be funny if not so sad. It's the internet, there are always going to be those ignorant of the facts and realities of the situation who think they know everything. This issue is so much more complex than some here make it - but it makes them feel good that "JUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE!" and simply haven't an utter clue of how much more convoluted and adding yet another pressure to folks that already have to deal with a great deal of pressure and worry just to be able to get on a theme park ride.

The first time I went back to WDW without my niece i felt so odd just getting in a line, and standing there - and not worrying about how we get the wheelchair close enough to the ride vehicle, how we can position ourselves (it takes two people) to lift her and get her seated, how we get the wheelchair out of the way quickly enough, and having to think through the whole attraction planning how we are going to repeat the process in 5 or 7 minutes. And that's just getting on and off one ride. Imagine that, times every single attraction we experience, and not to mention how much slower it is going between them, and that just to find an accessible bathroom that allows a companion to assist means a bathroom break takes a minimum of 1/2 hour up to a whole hour depending on many factors.

People just have no idea....but then, the overall message seems to be "Disney isn't for everyone." So we just shouldn't bother, according to them.

That's what makes me sick - and I remember that day standing in a regular line, and knowing how my niece would give anything to be able to just stand in a line and be like everyone else. She would give ANYTHING to be like all those folks ranting in this thread. Her idea of heaven is a place where she can finally move her legs.

Yeah, did we get on some attractions more quickly? Sure, but on many we have to wait longer - for an accessible vehicle, or a CM to escort us. And shows? Getting turned away even though the theater is half-full, because the all-the-way-in-the-back space for wheelchairs is already filled. In the end, it used to pretty much balance out.

But I don't know why I am bothering, guess it's just a time to take a break from this site since while I can just not open the thread when it pops up, I can't stop those little alerts at the top of the page and no, I can't not reply when I know someone who doesn't know what they are talking about replies to me and tells me that "Disney isn't for everyone". It's not worth it - because when the mob mentality and the rhetoric come in, and people have convinced themselves that they are experts on something they know nothing about or the struggles people already have, they never will, until someday it happens to them or someone they know, and they have to go through every second of life worrying about logistics and don't understand how this is one more pressure for those folks who need assistance.

This is going to make no measurable difference for anyone in this thread at WDW who are cheering about this, and that's the bottom line. But it makes people feel all puffed up when they think some injustice has been done, no matter the collateral damage - that's human nature - and the ignorance is not something that unfortunately I will ever be able to correct. People with disabilities and their families fight this fight every day - it's nothing new, it's just tough being reminded at a Disney board how rough and callous people can be on the Internet and play tough guy when they would cry like babies and curl up in a ball if they had to face one day in the life of my niece - and even if she did get "FOTL" access (which we did not, but no one understands that) you would say "let the kid on the ride, I have two working legs, I can wait an extra 30 seconds".

 

[Tom Morrow]

We are even, it makes me want to puke.

"Their own experiences" are not statistics. Until Disney releases them, it's all gossip and fodder.

You can yell all you want - but if you think wait times are suddenly going to change, you are delusional.

As if Disney is ever going to release this data. "Yeah, it turns out that about one out of every 6 of you were scamming us. Whoops!"

Why do you even need proof if they are changing the policy? By changing it = they decided the problem was big enough to address. Meaning not "fringe" instances.

And you're also turning this into people attacking others for having actual disabilities when that is clearly, CLEARLY not what this is about.

 

[Gabe1]

Not without operational policies that would empower CMs to accommodate other disabilities.

Accommodating mental or other physical issues like sun exposure wouldn't be covered without policies beyond the accessibility build out of the resort with hearing, sight, and mobility impairments.

Much of what Disney does today is rolled under the GAC model. Does it have to be? No.. but they do have to have policies to allow accommodations for disabilities not addressed with the physical build out of the resort.



No, but you would have to have policy that would allow the blind person to get assistance... such as simply allowing the bus driver telling them when their stop is.



Accommodations is not just about what room they give you... stop thinking physical handicaps are all they need to cover.



It's not illegal to the letter of the law (as it's not explicitly forbidden) and it will have to be up to a court to decide if it's a burden that is too great.

Disney's current policies regarding showing a disability pass before they will let you use an elevator to get to a ride is a great example to show how in Disney's implementation it is NOT a 'voluntary extra'.



Sure - but you weren't addressing a specific disability with your generic actions. Just like Disney decided the 'just give them a line cut' was a generic way to address most needs without being burdened to address each need individually. Giving up on that policy of 'putting them in first class' does not absolve you from having to provide a reasonable accommodation It may be less than you did before, but you still gotta accommodate the specific limitation the person has.

What you are still continuing to missing is Disney is not obligated to have DAC or DAS cards to jump lines. In an afternoon Disney's attorney's could rewrite their dang policy any way they wish. The only thing Disney is obligated is to be ADA compliant and they are.

Just because you are disabled and can't walk the park doesn't mean Disney will assist you or push your chair around the parks. If you don't have a wheelchair you have an OPTION to rent one they won't provide it to you for free in the parks. They do at the resorts so they place you anywhere they wish if mobility is your issue or you can pay out of pocket for a preferred location just like the general guests. It is a reasonable accommodation.

What you keep dancing around is all Disney is legally required to do is make reasonable accommodations so disabled guest can be included. The Act is not anywhere in the USA translated to mean disabled are exempt from wait times. Heck, anyone can use the handicapped toilet stall, the disabled have access to it when it opens up. While Disabled have larger parking spots to accomodate mobility that doesn't mean they don't queue up to pay their parking fee or wait to exit the parking lot. It is the attractions that all of a sudden it becomes a First World Problem. The Act does not come close to requiring line jumping at airports, themeparks, restaurants, banks, or even for the lines for the latest iPhones. Its courteous not part of the law. ADA does not require Disney to make Disabled Guests visits to the parks better than the General Guests experience by line jumping.

I understand why guests are ticked and trying to fight it before it rolls out, they are losing a perk. It's only natural, a First World Reaction to Disney trying to get this misplaced notation of entitlement to line jump under control. The perk of going from attraction to attraction to the front of the line at the expense of other guests is going to be gone and Disney has every legal leg to stand on to remove a perk anytime they so desire. Just because guests have a disability doesn't translate to riding Toy Story 6 times in a row while general guests watch from the stand-by queue.

 

[jaklgreen]

First off, I think the reason most of us here think that the old GAC was a FOTL pass because that is what people have said here on these boards and/or know someone who has used GAC, or have seen it in person. I am not saying that it is for everyone but enough for it to be the rule and not the exception. I don't think anyone will see eye to eye on this because either you feel 1) we/they suffer enough and deserve to get some kind of perk(like FOTL). 2)Everyone has issues in life and that does not mean you get special treatment because you have suffered, that's life. These are the 2 mind frames that I am seeing. There will probably be no changing any minds considering this goes down to core life styles. So to those who say "you don't get it", well the opposite side does get it but they just think you are wrong. One side thinks the other side are heartless SOBs and the other side thinks that that side is entitled. Still, looking at the big picture, Disney does a great job of making their parks accessible to all, not too many places on the planet can say that. Lets all be happy that we are not starving and we have a roof over our heads and that no matter what our struggles in life we are able to go to WDW.

 

[flynnibus]

So then could a law suit just make Disney do away with the GAC/DAS all together?

such a lawsuit would require Disney to alter how they do things... if Disney has a program for it or not is their choice... but no matter what they must offer the accommodations required under the ADA.

The article I read is saying that people with mobility issues (in a wheelchair/EVC) will go through the regular queue, as most of the rides are wheelchair assessable now and hat DAS will not be given for wheelchairs. Is there something in the ADA that states accommodations need to be made for those that have mental disabilities that would cause undo stress by making them wait in a crowded line?

What is required is they make accommodations for mental issues that meet the standard of a disability. Are there disability that would have the RESULT that it would be difficult to wait in certain lines? Yes... is 'I can't wait in lines' a disability covered under the ADA? No. That's the thing.. "I can't wait" is not a disability... but there are disability that can result in issues in what a typical Disney queue may bring.

Disney has to provide reasonable accommodation for the former. But that does NOT mean "disney must give all disabled people a instant access pass". It mean as simple as you allow someone to sit instead of forcing them to stand.. or you offer a waiting area in the shade if the rest of the queue were uncovered, etc.

What confuses people is Disney's 'catch-all' systems and then people start acting like it's all or nothing. That's not right.

I am asking because I don't see how a law suit of this nature would be ethical since the DAS is really just a perk Disney offers not a right of a guest . No one is making them register if they don't want and they certainly aren't discriminating against anyone.

Equal access through reasonable accommodation IS a right for guests - it's the law. The discrimination part of my message is specific to the idea of putting undue burden on a disabled individual. If you aren't versed in ADA topics.. you won't get it.

 

[Gabe1]

As if Disney is ever going to release this data. "Yeah, it turns out that about one out of every 6 of you were scamming us. Whoops!"

Why do you even need proof if they are changing the policy? By changing it = they decided the problem was big enough to address. Meaning not "fringe" instances.

And you're also turning this into people attacking others for having actual disabilities when that is clearly, CLEARLY not what this is about.

Well said! Kudos.

 

[flynnibus]

What you are still continuing to missing is Disney is not obligated to have DAC or DAS cards to jump lines

I never said they were nor that they need to. In fact the idea that they use this catch-all is a large part of their problem.

What they ARE obligated to do is provide reasonable accommotion - a concept THAT DOES NOT STOP at the Standards for Accessible Design. That is what you keep missing.

What that reasonable accommodation is - is unique to the disability in question. There is a REASON i keep using that language and not saying 'they need to give them the front of the line...'.

What they are obligated to do is address someone's inability to participate within reasonable accommodations. That could be as simple as allowing someone to wait in an Air Conditioned area instead of the queue.. or it could be as simple as offering to carry the heavy object.

In an afternoon Disney's attorney's could rewrite their dang policy any way they wish. The only thing Disney is obligated is to be ADA compliant and they are.

It's clear you don't know what that means.. and since you can't understand the difference after I've said it 4 times.. you aren't going to get it either.

The Act is not anywhere in the USA translated to mean disabled are exempt from wait times

Go back and find ANY post I've made that says it does. You won't find one. I've never advocated that the green light stamp is the accommodation Disney is required to give out to everyone. Pay @%$ attention. There is a reason I use the words I do.

You obviously aren't comprehending what I mean when I say 'reasonable accommodation . You think when I say that I mean 'line jump' and that is a connection YOU are making.. not me. I use the words 'reasonable accommodation' for specific reason. Those words are NOT interchangable with 'front of the line' or 'line jump' or similar. I use them because the accommodation required is going to depend on the disability in question.

By definition, accommodation is intended to be a personalized fit to the disability in question.. not universal 'Ive done A, B, and C' so I'm done.

 

[misterID]

As if Disney is ever going to release this data. "Yeah, it turns out that about one out of every 6 of you were scamming us. Whoops!"

Why do you even need proof if they are changing the policy? By changing it = they decided the problem was big enough to address. Meaning not "fringe" instances.

And you're also turning this into people attacking others for having actual disabilities when that is clearly, CLEARLY not what this is about.

Does Disney have specific data on how many people were actually faking? Of course not, so your statistics that only you happen to know, don't really mean squat when we're addressing the real issue. They're changing it because it's flawed, everyone knows it, not to mention all the complaints they receive about it. Hopefully they make a better system.

Like in every GAC thread, you get the "they're getting a better vacation" spiteful posts against people with actual disabilities, which is a shocking, disgusting and disappointing (that this ugliness actually exists and is proudly shown, patting each other on the back for being incredibly selfish) vocal group. You know this for a fact because I've gone round and round with these people with your own little jabs thrown in.

 

[Gabe1]

I never said they were nor that they need to. In fact the idea that they use this catch-all is a large part of their problem.

What they ARE obligated to do is provide reasonable accommotion - a concept THAT DOES NOT STOP at the Standards for Accessible Design. That is what you keep missing.

What that reasonable accommodation is - is unique to the disability in question. There is a REASON i keep using that language and not saying 'they need to give them the front of the line...'.

What they are obligated to do is address someone's inability to participate within reasonable accommodations. That could be as simple as allowing someone to wait in an Air Conditioned area instead of the queue.. or it could be as simple as offering to carry the heavy object.



It's clear you don't know what that means.. and since you can't understand the difference after I've said it 4 times.. you aren't going to get it either.



Go back and find ANY post I've made that says it does. You won't find one. I've never advocated that the green light stamp is the accommodation Disney is required to give out to everyone. Pay @%$ attention. There is a reason I use the words I do.

You obviously aren't comprehending what I mean when I say 'reasonable accommodation . You think when I say that I mean 'line jump' and that is a connection YOU are making.. not me.

I actually advocate Green Light. Make A Wish Children can pass me anytime they wish. Those guests have been more than vetted out and I'm sure that is why operation Green Light, a designation for Make A Wish is being handled differently than these changes that are coming. You are entitled to your feelings about operation Green Light. I am personally glad operation Green Light, a created stamp for Make A Wish guests will continue. To each there own. I'm glad it will remain.

What you can't seem to differentiate is the difference between a Disability and illnesses/conditions. Not all illnesses or conditions are subject to the Disability Act or accommodations. If that was the case the vast majority of all parties visiting WDW would have a GAC since someone in their group likely has some sort of medical condition or illness.

I understand the Disability Act and have a clear idea of what is considered reasonable accommodation verses a perk or when guests are in an entitlement mode. Disney had enough and GAC is gone. Case closed.

It is interesting you are telling many of us we don't understand the Disability Act and you seem to be less than well versed. I've been a Board of Ed member for many years dealing with students and our facilities. What we do have to offer and what we do not. The do nots seem to baffle the ill-informed. Disabled children waiting for buses in all sorts of weather, each waiting for their turn to board. They all have issues, all waiting there turn, waiting equally to board. We have attorneys well versed in the Act that have guided us through the ever changing requirements to be reasonably included.

Unfortunately because of thought process of entitlement, stretching reasonable accommodations to the max has caused Disney to evaluate GAC and deem it just isn't worth keeping. My Gran couldn't stand in the sun either, she didn't consider herself disabled, she carried an umbrella to shade herself. A reasonable lady with a reasonable solution. Being Disabled myself I am in awe of all the entitlements people demand beyond the intentions of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Being disabled I've never witnessed anything as bad as WDW guests when it comes to learning to cope and adjust.

There are disabled Vets and others guests that utilize Segways and Segways only. Yet it was upheld by the courts that disabled guests that primarily use Segway or only use Segways for mobility are not entitled to have their Segway in the parks. Isn't a reasonable accommodation that needed to honored by Disney even though it is honored by Uni, Seaworld and countless venues around the country and the world. I find that to be a pretty clear distinction of reasonable accommodation, when taking away and storing a Vets Segway, their mode of mobility. A pretty good bench mark for disability accommodations in WDW.