GAC to Become DAS

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Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Does Disney have specific data on how many people were actually faking? Of course not, so your statistics that only you happen to know, don't really mean squat when we're addressing the real issue. They're changing it because it's flawed, everyone knows it, not to mention all the complaints they receive about it. Hopefully they make a better system.

Like in every GAC thread, you get the "they're getting a better vacation" spiteful posts against people with actual disabilities, which is a shocking, disgusting and disappointing (that this ugliness actually exists and is proudly shown, patting each other on the back for being incredibly selfish) vocal group. You know this for a fact because I've gone round and round with these people with your own little jabs thrown in.

And that is twisting what is being discussed.

There are very few members that do not acknowledge the need for accommodations for the needy. There are also very few members that don't acknowledge that Disney is changing the system because guests found a way to cheat the system just like guests have done with parking, refill cups, selling off never expiring admission tickets. When things at Disney are abused Disney is forced to act and they have.

We have seen the issues, Disney has seen the issues. Nastiness doesn't validate your position.
 

PolynesianPrincess

Well-Known Member
Keep the new security measures while using the old system, meaning the GAC card holder has to be present for the family to ride the ride. Another thing I wouldn't be opposed to is restricting the passes to just family members only. Considering how more than half that use it are with their families anyways, require them to go to guest relations with a form of id, then get special cards that identify them as the GAC card holders family. They have to show that to the cast member (Their id cards can be a dull blue or other color, while the GAC card holder is distinct to help the cast member Identify who is who). That way they can use the old system of showing the front gate cast member their card and then enter the attraction. This would cut down on abuse extremely well (As most of the Weasels who cheat the system are at the parks with friends or god forbid giving tours to people they don't know for money). That is all that needs to happen, increased security precautions.

Another way to do it is to use the magic bands. Link all the people who can use the DAS with you and when you enter the FP line, scan the band and it will say that you're allowed. Of course, this may not prevent people from giving their band to someone else to use (friend who is not linked to the DAS holder) but at least it will prevent how many people are let through with the person with the DAS. I have seen groups as large as 10 go through the FP line with a GAC card. Obviously CMs do not enforce the 6 person maximum. If they're going to make a rule, they need to stick by it. Otherwise people are just going to keep seeing how far they can push the envelope.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
This is not a viable use for NextGen as linking a defined medical condition to your profile by Disney is a violation of HIPPA.
No. It is not. HIPAA does not cover voluntary release of information by the patient. So, Disney can ask all day long. And, they would not be in violation of any laws, as long as the information is voluntarily supplied by the individual. They possibly could get into an ADA situation if they penalized people for not providing certain information. But, as long as said information is not deemed "reasonable" and for the use of providing appropriate accommodation ( not to penalize), Disney is fine.

Still, it's such muddy waters legally, I doubt they ever would. Anyhow, back to my point, HIPAA doesn't impact Disney in the slightest. The law effects the doctors / providers.

If Disney were to demand information from the patients physician or provider WITHOUT written authorization from said patient...that is also not illegal.

What would be illegal is if the Doctor released said information to Disney, without written authorization from the patient... Then the Doctor would be in violation of HIPAA, not Disney.
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
And that is twisting what is being discussed.

There are very few members that do not acknowledge the need for accommodations for the needy. There are also very few members that don't acknowledge that Disney is changing the system because guests found a way to cheat the system just like guests have done with parking, refill cups, selling off never expiring admission tickets. When things at Disney are abused Disney is forced to act and they have.

We have seen the issues, Disney has seen the issues. Nastiness doesn't validate your position.


No, that's not true. There are MANY people who don't want the disabled to have any kind of "ahead of the line" help, because, "they're getting a better vacation." Or the phrase used in this thread, "not at the expense of my kids. They get hot and tired too!" There is no "twisting", which you're basically calling me a liar. Thanks, btw. Go use the search function and look at every GAC thread, including this one. There is always a discussion on who should get and most frequently, who shouldn't. I am neither twisting, nor making it up.

There are too many of these threads (and I'm REALLY sick of them) where that's what the issue devolves into. So please, I've seen it many times. I've seen the same cast of characters giving high-fives to each other.

Again, (are you reading this? are you following me? are you sure?) we all agree it's being abused. Yes, they need to do something. I don't think this is the best way to enforce it, as my main concern is that people who are severely limited on the number of attractions they can ride to begin with, and will ride a single attraction more than once, are now going to be limited even more. Maybe give them a heavily discounted ticket? I don't know. We'll see.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Like in every GAC thread, you get the "they're getting a better vacation" spiteful posts against people with actual disabilities, which is a shocking, disgusting and disappointing (that this ugliness actually exists and is proudly shown, patting each other on the back for being incredibly selfish) vocal group. You know this for a fact because I've gone round and round with these people with your own little jabs thrown in.
Nobody, I repeat, NOBODY is saying that the truly disabled that actually need assistance are getting a better vacation. Rather, its everybody who:

1. has nothing wrong with them and lies to guest relations because through word of mouth and the internet, they have discovered this loophole that grants them an unlimited Fastpass
2. justifies something incredibly minor as a "disability" and then ride Space Mountain 10 times in a row with their GAC because, you know, "my disability!"
3. gets a card for dear old grandma and then hands it off to the kids who then use it to ride Space Mountain 10 times in a row.

These people are abusing the system and absolutely ARE getting a better vacation at the expense of everyone else, including people with serious disabilities that need true accommodation. Its a direct result of having handing out cards with WAY too much of an advantage, more than any other theme park in existence gives out, and then trusting the public not to abuse it on their honor.

Look, I know some of you don't want to take the accounts of CM's, or fan sites, or blogs, and you want to see actual numbers from Disney, but that is never going to happen. All you need to know is that Disney IS changing the rules so therefore they obviously decided that the abuse was excessive and doing harm to the average guest experience.
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
Nobody, I repeat, NOBODY is saying that the truly disabled that actually need assistance are getting a better vacation. Rather, its everybody who:

1. has nothing wrong with them and lies to guest relations because through word of mouth and the internet, they have discovered this loophole that grants them an unlimited Fastpass
2. justifies something incredibly minor as a "disability" and then ride Space Mountain 10 times in a row with their GAC because, you know, "my disability!"
3. gets a card for dear old grandma and then hands it off to the kids who then use it to ride Space Mountain 10 times in a row.

These people are abusing the system and absolutely ARE getting a better vacation at the expense of everyone else, including people with serious disabilities that need true accommodation. Its a direct result of having handing out cards with WAY too much of an advantage, more than any other theme park in existence gives out, and then trusting the public not to abuse it on their honor.

Look, I know some of you don't want to take the accounts of CM's, or fan sites, or blogs, and you want to see actual numbers from Disney, but that is never going to happen. All you need to know is that Disney IS changing the rules so therefore they obviously decided that the abuse was excessive and doing harm to the average guest experience.


If that were true there wouldn't be an argument. It's what I'm saying. Another problem lies in what people want to consider a disablity based on their own personal convenience.

They're changing the system because it is flawed and prone to abuse. No one has ever, ever, ever said otherwise. The problem is if it's truly going to help. I have my doubts. And no, I'm not taking your word on it. There have been CM's who have said that even the MAW kids get the attitude from the "you're getting a better vacation than me" crowd.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
If that were true there wouldn't be an argument. It's what I'm saying. Another problem lies in what people want to consider a disablity based on their own personal convenience.

They're changing the system because it is flawed and prone to abuse. No one has ever, ever, ever said otherwise. The problem is if it's truly going to help. I have my doubts. And no, I'm not taking your word on it. There have been CM's who have said that even the MAW kids get the attitude from the "you're getting a better vacation than me" crowd.
A few isolated, massively ignorant people, do not count and shouldn't be included in this discussion unless you're just trying to justify your "righteous indignation". So far all I can see is that you get to some trigger word and fire off a reply without either finishing the sentence or just refusing to comprehend what is being said for some reason.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
What you can't seem to differentiate is the difference between a Disability and illnesses/conditions. Not all illnesses or conditions are subject to the Disability Act or accommodations. If that was the case the vast majority of all parties visiting WDW would have a GAC since someone in their group likely has some sort of medical condition or illness.

Another point... I have not made. Whose posts are you reading? How do you conclude I don't know how to differentiate between what is covered as a disability or not when you haven't seen me argue for one being included or not? Or maybe you can quote one of my posts in this thread where you see me saying 'condition XAC limits major life activities' you don't agree with? I await your backing of your claim.

The ADA is it was explicitly written to cover virtually an open spectrum. It's intent WAS to be wide embracing. The problem is.. when you combine that with an open ended definition of 'reasonable accommodation' it is highly volatile to be contentious. And it has... and the DOJ has been EXTREMELY liberal in expanding the Design Standards to (IMHO) absurd levels in recent years (the latest pool rules are a good example).

What you will see me advocate is 'the right accommodation for the limitation the person has'. Disney was too liberal in what accommodations it offered under the GAC. Thus the flaw in the GAC system was they offered too sweat of a carrot in front of people and people 'helped themselves'.

It's akin to knowing you need a welfare system for nutrition... so you decide to just leave all the food out in the open for the needy. People can't help themselves and everyone starts taking the food. The needy then get squeezed out.

It is interesting you are telling many of us we don't understand the Disability Act and you seem to be less than well versed. I've been a Board of Ed member for many years dealing with students and our facilities. What we do have to offer and what we do not

Well I was the one actually designing the spaces - so I'm pretty well versed. Plus, there is no reason for people to not be in this topic considering all of it is readily available on the web. If people just freaking READ the law, this thread would be a hell of a lot shorter.

and your examples of waiting for a bus are world's apart from lines in a theme park. It's not even worth discussing... what is reasonable for a school system to provide across an entire district obviously is going to be very different from what is reasonable within the confined space of a theme park. From staffing to presence, to flexibility. World's apart.

There are disabled Vets and others guests that utilize Segways and Segways only. Yet it was upheld by the courts that disabled guests that primarily use Segway or only use Segways for mobility are not entitled to have their Segway in the parks.

That was a specialized case argued under the exception of safety.. not that the need wasn't necessary.

But I still don't know what any of this has to do with what I responded to you in the first place, which is where you said:

Very few areas of WDW property are not ADA compliant through the main entrances. If DAC and DAS ever becomes too big of a headache or if guests become too demanding for additional services beyond ADA requirements Disney can discontinue DAS all together aside from the few attractions that are not accessible.

Complying with the ADA does not mean 'I built to the accessibility standards and now I'm done.. go away'

The Design Standards for accessibility are a set of accommodations the DOJ feels should be present in all designated facilities by default -- they believed this was necessary to raise the default level of accessibility in our country. So for a subset of disabilities they decided were significant enough, they have codified premise requirements that they made sure would always be available and not open to interpretation.

By incorporating those standards, someone can feel comfortable they have provided accommodations for those restrictions covered by the standards. But the design standards do not cover every possible disability or restriction.. and those not covered by the standards are still on the table for places of public accommodation to provide reasonable accommodations for.

The ADA intentionally does not define what specific disabilities are covered... congress have only defined a standard and then excluded certain things. Because of this open-ended nature, it is literally impossible to write a building code that would accommodate everything. Most things must simply be covered by policy adjustments and flexibility in operations. THAT is why you can't just say 'I built to code' and I'm done... buildings may be ADA compliant.. but that doesn't make the organization compliant. That can only be achieved through adaptive policies combined with facilities that meet the law's requirements.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
No. It is not. HIPAA does not cover voluntary release of information by the patient. So, Disney can ask all day long. And, they would not be in violation of any laws, as long as the information is voluntarily supplied by the individual. They possibly could get into an ADA situation if they penalized people for not providing certain information. But, as long as said information is not deemed "reasonable" and for the use of providing appropriate accommodation ( not to penalize), Disney is fine.

Still, it's such muddy waters legally, I doubt they ever would. Anyhow, back to my point, HIPAA doesn't impact Disney in the slightest. The law effects the doctors / providers.

If Disney were to demand information from the patients physician or provider WITHOUT written authorization from said patient...that is also not illegal.

What would be illegal is if the Doctor released said information to Disney, without written authorization from the patient... Then the Doctor would be in violation of HIPAA, not Disney.
I happened to be sitting on a barstool at the Dawa bar in AK last Monday. 2 Disney managers walked up and began talking to the person 2 seats away. The guest began gushing about how great MM+ was and how useful it would be if medical conditions could be linked into MM+. The managers explicitly explained that this would not be possible as it would be a violation of HIPPA statutes. Are the managers incorrect?
 

RandomPrincess

Keep Moving Forward
I happened to be sitting on a barstool at the Dawa bar in AK last Monday. 2 Disney managers walked up and began talking to the person 2 seats away. The guest began gushing about how great MM+ was and how useful it would be if medical conditions could be linked into MM+. The managers explicitly explained that this would not be possible as it would be a violation of HIPPA statutes. Are the managers incorrect?

Yes.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
I happened to be sitting on a barstool at the Dawa bar in AK last Monday. 2 Disney managers walked up and began talking to the person 2 seats away. The guest began gushing about how great MM+ was and how useful it would be if medical conditions could be linked into MM+. The managers explicitly explained that this would not be possible as it would be a violation of HIPPA statutes. Are the managers incorrect?
Yes. They are incorrect.

That may be the line they were told, or a misconception they have about the law and what the Privacy provisions in the legislation entail. But, HIPAA has absolutely nothing to do with requesting medical information or linking it / storing it in a third party system if it is voluntarily provided by the person or with the consent / knowledge of the person.

It also doesn't prevent companies from asking about it. ADA has some provisions which limit what can be asked, and how it can be asked. But, HIPAA does not. All HIPAA states is that a PROVIDER (or one of the other limited classes involved, like Health Insurance Companies and Healthcare Contractors) cannot divulge this information.

So, had the managers said it was a potential violation of ADA, I could buy that (though, again, there are ways around that if it's deemed reasonable, as I mentioned last post). But, it's certainly not HIPAA.

And, as I've stated repeatedly, a person can volunteer any information they wish to whomever they wish, which would void any HIPAA privacy protections.

So, as an example. A person with cancer can sign up of their own volition and store information on a support site for Cancer including very specific medical information. The website / third party can even ask them to provide that information (maybe to route them towards treatment groups, etc)... However, a DOCTOR can't give this information to the third party (even another doctor) without the consent of the patient.

Disney is not a healthcare provider. HIPAA does not apply to them in any form.

Here's a nice summary of what HIPAA is and what it does, specifically with respect to the Privacy provisions (note, the primary purpose of the law was health insurance portability. The privacy measures are secondary.)

Enjoy!

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/summary/index.html
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
I have my doubts. And no, I'm not taking your word on it. There have been CM's who have said that even the MAW kids get the attitude from the "you're getting a better vacation than me" crowd.
I guess this is what's frustrating about this, knowing and witnessing the full extent of the abuse and have people make excuses that its mostly a DLR problem or it doesn't have an impact on everyone else who haven't seen it from the other side. I understand that you and others don't want to just listen to random screennames on the internet. But its a problem that has continued to grow over the years, and the suits have finally (apparently) stepped in after years and years of everyone from the bottom up saying "hey... this is a problem!"
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Another GAC anecdote from my trip.
It appears that GAC's are not provided the same immediate access to rides as they were last year. An individual I spoke with said the CM's look at the card then point the guest to the entrance of the standby line.
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
A few isolated, massively ignorant people, do not count and shouldn't be included in this discussion unless you're just trying to justify your "righteous indignation". So far all I can see is that you get to some trigger word and fire off a reply without either finishing the sentence or just refusing to comprehend what is being said for some reason.

It's okay, I know not everyone understands the comments between posters who've had this discussion on many occassions like Tom and I have, before they chime in with uninformed opinions. :)

I guess this is what's frustrating about this, knowing and witnessing the full extent of the abuse and have people make excuses that its mostly a DLR problem or it doesn't have an impact on everyone else who haven't seen it from the other side. I understand that you and others don't want to just listen to random screennames on the internet. But its a problem that has continued to grow over the years, and the suits have finally (apparently) stepped in after years and years of everyone from the bottom up saying "hey... this is a problem!"

Just in the size of WDW I'd say there is more abuse. You have websites telling people how to scam the system, so I can see it being huge for both parks.
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
This is not a viable use for NextGen as linking a defined medical condition to your profile by Disney is a violation of HIPPA.

So when people request a handicap room they aren't allowed to enter this into the computer on the reservation?
 

Mr Bill

Well-Known Member
Another GAC anecdote from my trip.
It appears that GAC's are not provided the same immediate access to rides as they were last year. An individual I spoke with said the CM's look at the card then point the guest to the entrance of the standby line.
GACs were never supposed to provide immediate access to attractions but there's about six different stamps a GAC could have and what type of access is provided for each stamp will vary from attraction to attraction. Someone could have a stamp that indicates they need to wait in a shaded area. If that's the case, they're not getting anywhere any faster if the ride has an indoor queue. In theory, not all issues require the use of an alternate entrance at all attractions.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
If you want to scam ADA to your advantage... you should be 'disabled' when ordering concert tickets to hard to get shows...

What.. you didn't know they have to have tickets held for disabled AND their party? :)
 
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Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Complying with the ADA does not mean 'I built to the accessibility standards and now I'm done.. go away'

.

Oh my goodness you gave me the biggest laugh I've had in a long time. Priceless. Thank you.

You have now clarified and specifically outlined how inept this department is at Disney if all you have stated is accurate depictions of Disney policies written to comply with the Act. If these policies are factual, Disney had themselves drowning so deep in bureaucracy that there was no choice but to abort GAC.

If your examples are true to support Disney's written policy, Disney management created such a muck that a pig couldn't crawl out of it so they are forced to scrap GAC and start over. Hopefully with a far more educated group of management. If that is genuinely how these policies are written to interpreting the Act they should be shown the door. I just don't want to believe that Disney is that inept.

Personally they would have had their walking papers the day they denied Veterans and guests with mobility issues their Segways. I was at Epcot as a Vet was required to transfer to a cart from a custom Segway. There wasn't any concern shown, no special treatment. He had one arm, one leg and two prosthesis. That is Disney when it comes to helping the most deserving by requiring a one armed Vet to visit the park in a cart. Guess they can do what they want for the disabled and will fight to the end to deny others with the most obvious disabilities. Go figure. Sometimes winning in court is far more important than the guests they are taking on.

We will not obviously agree on how the Disney's attorneys opted to interpret the Act, I think poorly, you seem to condone a policy I would never, ever support as it wasn't designed to be successful. Policies are written as interpretations of laws everyone has their own spin. Disney's GAC failed. So much for that policy and the twits that authored it. Better luck with the replacement policy.
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
So when people request a handicap room they aren't allowed to enter this into the computer on the reservation?

You have the OPTION of narrowing your search for resort rooms by your specific disability. I'm hearing impaired and Disney has specific rooms that meet my needs for telephone, alarms, etc. Same goes for sight issues. I have the OPTION of specifically requesting one of these rooms and the OPTION of disclosing my disability. It is clearly outlined on the Disney website. Disney using the word option is a good choice, very clear. Volunteering information is my OPTION. I have always chosen to be forthcoming as it keeps everyone from being in an awkward position of tap-dancing and then I have little difficulties receiving any assistance I need.
 
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