GAC to Become DAS

[Pinkerton]

Don't blame those with disabilities you feel are less than your own. Blame Disney for blanket hand-outs of how they handled accommodations vs addressing an individual's need. Disney was the one who put people in the handicap accessible entrance.. not the guests. It's Disney's choice that lead to people lying to abuse it.

True. I guess it was Disney who broadened the understanding of disability issues and brought those guests with certain other afflictions such as Autism and ADHD into the scheme of things. I think Disney thought more of people and believed that they would be honest particularly when it came to claiming what their needs were. Maybe Disney will ultimately restrict those with "invisible disabilities" to DAS and then give GAC back to the permanently disabled who can't transfer and were the original recipients of these special passes.

 

[Mark In KY]

Yeah, it was all Disney's fault. The Americans With Disabilites Act and similar legislation had nothing to do with it.

 

[Pinkerton]

Yeah, it was all Disney's fault. The Americans With Disabilites Act and similar legislation had nothing to do with it.

Keep in mind that Disney was the only one who allowed FOTL access and all the other parks have something similar to the Return Pass that DAS exemplifies. The bottom-line is Disney trusted people and the low-life's took advantage and destroyed a good thing for those who are truly disabled.

 

[Gomer]

This is exactly what will happen unless the CMs shorten Return Times on those rides where we, who can't transfer, have to wait for a wheelchair accessible vehicle. Let's be honest here and admit that the first passes like these were originally meant for those who were physically disabled and couldn't transfer and it was Disney kowtowing to those with "invisible disabilities" and allowing them into the pass program that led to it's abuse and eventual downfall. By abuse, I not only mean those who flat out lied about being disabled but also those who have "marginal invisible disabilities" who are able to wait in line but chose the GAC route due to it's FOTL access. I am more appalled at this group than the low-life scum who flat out lied because they back-stabbed those who have severe disabilities (both physical and neurological). Because of this betrayal by our own kind, I no longer have sympathy for those with "marginal invisible disabilities" and will judge them accordingly in the future. Shame on you and your greed and for being one of the main reasons why the GAC program was dismantled and for denying those who are truly disabled to lose this privilege.

OK, I think its clearly time for the battle royale of disabilities. Maybe we need to start a hierarchy listing of which disabilities trump others. Maybe we could set it up as a tournament bracket and see who wins the battle of Autism vs. Downs, and Parkinson's vs. Alzheimers. Like how do we know which is worse between Cerebral Palsey and Muscular Dystophy. Is MD worse because its progressive? So, they would get a better GAC? Seems fair. What happens when you throw in a spinal injury, do they get the win because of the unexpected nature, or does that go to the other two because of the slow suffering of the diesease model? I think at this point, its definitely fair game to start ranking people's disabilities though, as that's what this thread seems to have come down to.

 

[mickeysaver]

I had to do all those "primary care" rotations in med school. This is what I came away with:
1. 90% of FPs and IMs hate 90% of their patients
2. 5% of FPs and IMs hate 100% of their patients
3. 5% of FPs and IMs drink and pop pills so that they can tolerate their work
4. Peds like their patients and hate all the parents
5. If you could hear the stories that "primary care" docs tell about their patients and hear the mocking of their patients that go on after the office closes your toes would curl
6. Those stories and drug rep lunches are the only good parts of "primary care"

Dude, I work in healthcare. I spent about 20 years of my life in a pediatric medical office. My docs, fellow nursing staff, nor I have ever hated our patients or parents. I can not begin to tell you the number of letters that I have written for this or that, which was beyond the scope of medicine, but was parent requested. I looked at it as their need, not my opportunity to judge.

Oh, and drug rep lunches are highly overrated.

 

[flynnibus]

True. I guess it was Disney who broadened the understanding of disability issues and brought those guests with certain other afflictions such as Autism and ADHD into the scheme of things

No, those people have every right to have their disability accommodated... the issue is they should have had accommodations specific to their need. Disney masterminded this problem when instead of addressing specific needs, they started giving alt entrance stamps out like candy. This is at the core of what the change to DAS does... brings the accommodation back towards fitting the specific need. By giving out alt entrance stamps, not enforcing the use of FP as the accommodation, and other moves... Disney created this situation that was just too tempting for people to abuse.

The issue has always been Disney's lazy addressing of reasonable accommodation - not who has the right to be included. People say 'why don't they have this problem anywhere else?' - it's because other places weren't as lazy as Disney with how they accommodated specific needs.

 

[flynnibus]

The bottom-line is Disney trusted people and the low-life's took advantage and destroyed a good thing for those who are truly disabled.

No, Disney took the easiest, path of least effort that was most defendable in court. And in doing so invited abuse.. to the point where the abuse had a negative impact on everyone.

The cheats are still scum - but it's Disney that created a system so weak that encouraged the behavior. And not because Disney was naive... but that simply Disney created a system that absolved them from doing more work.. and in doing so put everyone's experience down so Disney could sweep things under the rug.

 

[Pinkerton]

OK, I think its clearly time for the battle royale of disabilities. Maybe we need to start a hierarchy listing of which disabilities trump others. Maybe we could set it up as a tournament bracket and see who wins the battle of Autism vs. Downs, and Parkinson's vs. Alzheimers. Like how do we know which is worse between Cerebral Palsey and Muscular Dystophy. Is MD worse because its progressive? So, they would get a better GAC? Seems fair. What happens when you throw in a spinal injury, do they get the win because of the unexpected nature, or does that go to the other two because of the slow suffering of the diesease model? I think at this point, its definitely fair game to start ranking people's disabilities though, as that's what this thread seems to have come down to.

How about those that are physically disabled and can't transfer vs. all the others (including physically disabled and can transfer). This is how Disney differentiated between the disabilities in the beginning and why they allotted only those who were physically disabled and couldn't transfer the special passes.

 

[Gomer]

How about those that are physically disabled and can't transfer vs. all the others (including physically disabled and can transfer). This is how Disney differentiated between the disabilities in the beginning and why they allotted only those who were physically disabled and couldn't transfer the special passes.

The point is you are speaking from a frame of reference which I can only assume applies to your own situation. I could also just as easily make an argument that somone with those "marginal invisible disabilities" who you stated were "traitors to their own kind" have more need for the GAC over the DAS because many of them can't comprehend the reason for the wait being imposed on them. Someone of full, typical, mental capabilities with a purely physical ailment has an understanding of the reason for the wait and would therefore be better equipped to handle the extended wait time navigating the ECV/wheelchair queue entails.

Please understand, I don't actually believe the person with a physical ailment should wait longer, I am simply trying to point out the dangerous road you travel when assuming the needs of one group outweighs the other. And the cavalier blame applied to those with "invisible disabilities" creates a lynch mob mentality as if anyone who isn't obviously physically disabled is somehow out to rip benefits away from those who are.

Starting a war between those with different types of disabilities does nothing to further the cause of either side.

 

[natatomic]

Let me guess. You work at Soarin? That is the only attraction I have ever been routinely hassled about my GAC. I've been turned away 3 times because the CM who wrote up the card at MK City Hall made a mistake of some sort (e.g. wrote beginning date + # days, scratched out dates and rewrote over it, forgot to add the number of people in the party, etc.). These hassles ALWAYS come after I'm admitted through the initial greeter and make it down the long hallway to the FP collection site. Then I must proceed back up the hallway, wait for the elevator by Living with the Land and go out to Guest Relations at the entrance to have a new GAC issued. It got so bad that now I've become about checking the GAC to make sure all fields are filled out correctly.

I had a very physical mobility disability and use my own power wheelchair. It's kinda hard to assume I'm faking any sort of disability. Unfortunately CMs at Soarin' seem prone to be about GACs. IDK, maybe they see a lot of abuse. Still didn't seem like they used common sense a lot.

[...]

FYI, when I first got a GAC it was because a CM at Buzz Lightyear instructed me to do so. Reason given was that I would have to wait for the one wheelchair vehicle at the exit and this would make my wait more reasonable. Now I'll use the GAC for those few attractions where boarding is either very difficult (i.e. Test Track which involves a hard slide transfer), there are limited wheelchair accessible vehicles I can use (Pooh, TSM, Safari) or the process to obtain a FB and board involves complicated process (Soarin' you must wait for an elevator to even see the Standby lines, there's a transfer and limited parking for wheelchair/scooter vehicles). That list today includes: TSM, Soarin', Test Track, Buzz and Pooh.

No, I have never worked Soarin', nor have I ever worked any of the attractions you currently use a GAC for. I have, however, worked at at least one E-ticket attraction in every park except Epcot.

And just so you don't think I'm totally heartless, I HAVE made exceptions to every rule I just said that I typically enforce. Yes, I enforce the rules 98% of the time (since that's what they are - rules), but I have been lenient to families who seemed to need this one-time rule-bend. Also, if a GAC appears to have been altered, we ARE within our rights to turn it away and/or confiscate it. But depending on severity of the scribble/alteration, sometimes I will simply say, "Just so you know, some CMs might think this card was altered. I'm still gonna let you in now, but I just want to give you a heads up that it may cause some trouble for you throughout your stay, and it might be a good idea to swing by guest relations to get a new one."

A GAC that looks like THIS, however:

...these we confiscate, and we confiscate HAPPILY. (I did not personally take this one, but I applaud the person who did).

So just know that when CMs see these obviously altered GACs (which occur more often than I think people realize), it can make them a bit cynical and skeptical of every stray mark. Especially since Guest Relations CMs are supposed to write out a new card if they make a mistake, that way you don't experience the third degree from an attractions CM. I would make a point to go back to the GR CM who wrote the card out for you (since their name is on the card) and take it up with them specifically, since they should know better than to send you off with a poorly written-out card.

 

[awoogala]

A GAC that looks like THIS, however:

...these we confiscate, and we confiscate HAPPILY. (I did not personally take this one, but I applaud the person who did).

So just know that when CMs see these obviously altered GACs (which occur more often than I think people realize), it can make them a bit cynical and skeptical of every stray mark. .

I am curious..is it the messed up condition? the number of 14? Is there something else on there that screams "altered" that I am missing? (seriously curious!)

 

[natatomic]

The date was altered (might be hard to tell in the smaller resolution I uploaded it in). It was changed to a 28 from 26 or 23 or something. And the number of guests originally said "4 (four)." They wrote a "1" in front of the 4, and drew a line through the right parenthesis to change it into a 'T' and wrote "een" after that. The ten 18-20ish year old boys who tried to use it apparently didn't think to change the name of the person on the card, though, because I highly doubt any of them were named Angie. Lol.

 

[awoogala]

The date was altered (might be hard to tell in the smaller resolution I uploaded it in). It was changed to a 28 from 26 or 23 or something. And the number of guests originally said "4 (four)." They wrote a "1" in front of the 4, and drew a line through the right parenthesis to change it into a 'T' and wrote "een" after that. The ten 18-20ish year old boys who tried to use it apparently didn't think to change the name of the person on the card, though, because I highly doubt any of them were named Angie. Lol.

ha! Ok I picked up on some of it, but I missed others. Thanks!

 

[Pinkerton]

The point is you are speaking from a frame of reference which I can only assume applies to your own situation. I could also just as easily make an argument that somone with those "marginal invisible disabilities" who you stated were "traitors to their own kind" have more need for the GAC over the DAS because many of them can't comprehend the reason for the wait being imposed on them. Someone of full, typical, mental capabilities with a purely physical ailment has an understanding of the reason for the wait and would therefore be better equipped to handle the extended wait time navigating the ECV/wheelchair queue entails.

My point was that you can't fake a permanent physical disability because that would entail the guest having to board a wheelchair accessible ride vehicle and the fraudsters and marginally physically disabled wouldn't dare wait that long or even be seen in one of those ugly vehicles. I was amazed at how many miracles I witnessed when those who were in wheelchairs and/or scooters came riding down the alternate entrance ramp and then hopped right on out of their wheelchair and flawlessly transferred to the first ride vehicle that came by all while we were waiting on one of the few wheelchair accessible vehicles to make its way around.

On the other hand, it is the invisible disability that can easily be abused not only by the fraudsters but also by those with marginal invisible disabilities who are able-bodied but went the GAC route due to the FOTL access. Since it was those with invisible disabilities who committed the fraud and not the permanently physically disabled, only they should be subject to the DAS Return Pass and those with permanent physical disabilities should retain GAS since they need the extra time to wait for a wheelchair accessible ride vehicle.

 

[Gomer]

So, what you are saying is that a group of people who happen to be coincidentally linked with those who abused the system only by the type of disability that they have, but not in any other way, should be punsished because of the actions that were commited by those who coincidentally share that specific trait with them. And that further, another group of people, linked only by the fact that they don't share a trait with those who abused the system, should be exempt from that punishment because they happen to not share that trait.

I don't mean to come off overly dramatic, but what you are suggesting is predjudice against a specific subset a disabilities because of the actions of small portion of people who happen to share (a rather broad) class of disability. These are human beings, living very difficult lives with sometimes severe "invisible" disabilities, but you are suggesting that they be treated differently due to guilt by association?

 

[startraveler]

My point was that you can't fake a permanent physical disability because that would entail the guest having to board a wheelchair accessible ride vehicle and the fraudsters and marginally physically disabled wouldn't dare wait that long or even be seen in one of those ugly vehicles. I was amazed at how many miracles I witnessed when those who were in wheelchairs and/or scooters came riding down the alternate entrance ramp and then hopped right on out of their wheelchair and flawlessly transferred to the first ride vehicle that came by all while we were waiting on one of the few wheelchair accessible vehicles to make its way around.

On the other hand, it is the invisible disability that can easily be abused not only by the fraudsters but also by those with marginal invisible disabilities who are able-bodied but went the GAC route due to the FOTL access. Since it was those with invisible disabilities who committed the fraud and not the permanently physically disabled, only they should be subject to the DAS Return Pass and those with permanent physical disabilities should retain GAS since they need the extra time to wait for a wheelchair accessible ride vehicle.

This is my concern. Will the return time take into account the second line I and my family will have to stand in? (I use a wheelchair, parents are seniors who have used GAC, I have also used one at certain times) With only two exceptions we have to use the car that takes the wheelchair. If we are told to come back at say 1:30 because that is when I would only have to wait 20 minutes they will most likely be incorrect. We have to wait 20 minutes plus the extra time in the second line. Sometimes on a ramp which is hard in a wheelchair. My family has waited up to an hour in these lines.
Most of those rides only have one car running at a time, at least when I am there. Exception AK safari. Those who cannot transfer, and only have a few rides available, routinely have to wait at lot longer. I have used fast pass at Toy Story and seen people in the stand by line exit before I get on the ride. It's first come, first serve for the special car and so if someone who doesn't need it is in front of me in line they ride it. Seems fair. But that means the CMs are pulling the seat in and out for every other party. A lot of work. We get a fast pass for Little Mermaid. Again those in the fast pass line with us are exiting while we wait in the special car line. Just want to remind people we wait longer. It is not as people have said that the "playing field must be leveled" so the disabled don't have it better than other paying guests.
Not complaining. Just educating.

 

[Pinkerton]

So, what you are saying is that a group of people who happen to be coincidentally linked with those who abused the system only by the type of disability that they have, but not in any other way, should be punsished because of the actions that were commited by those who coincidentally share that specific trait with them. And that further, another group of people, linked only by the fact that they don't share a trait with those who abused the system, should be exempt from that punishment because they happen to not share that trait.

That is exactly what I am saying. Those with invisible disabilities were the main perpetrators of the abuse and, therefore, should lose the privileges associated with that system and be forced on DAS.

I don't mean to come off overly dramatic, but what you are suggesting is predjudice against a specific subset a disabilities because of the actions of small portion of people who happen to share (a rather broad) class of disability. These are human beings, living very difficult lives with sometimes severe "invisible" disabilities, but you are suggesting that they be treated differently due to guilt by association?

It was the permanently physically disabled who were the original designees of these special passes and all I am suggesting is that it go back to the way DISNEY originally initiated this program. It wasn't until Disney pandered to those with invisible disabilities that the abusive and abhorrent behavior occurred.

 

[BroganMc]

This is my concern. Will the return time take into account the second line I and my family will have to stand in? (I use a wheelchair, parents are seniors who have used GAC, I have also used one at certain times) With only two exceptions we have to use the car that takes the wheelchair. If we are told to come back at say 1:30 because that is when I would only have to wait 20 minutes they will most likely be incorrect. We have to wait 20 minutes plus the extra time in the second line. Sometimes on a ramp which is hard in a wheelchair. My family has waited up to an hour in these lines.
Most of those rides only have one car running at a time, at least when I am there. Exception AK safari. Those who cannot transfer, and only have a few rides available, routinely have to wait at lot longer. I have used fast pass at Toy Story and seen people in the stand by line exit before I get on the ride. It's first come, first serve for the special car and so if someone who doesn't need it is in front of me in line they ride it. Seems fair. But that means the CMs are pulling the seat in and out for every other party. A lot of work. We get a fast pass for Little Mermaid. Again those in the fast pass line with us are exiting while we wait in the special car line. Just want to remind people we wait longer. It is not as people have said that the "playing field must be leveled" so the disabled don't have it better than other paying guests.
Not complaining. Just educating.

That's what was thinking about. Seems like forum folks are obsessed with cheaters and transfer files. I imagine many have little idea the issues which crop up when you can't easily get out of that chair. Not that I go around complaining but it does Saddam me the DAS program does not address this. In fact the policy specifically says if you are in a wheelchair user you don't qualify for the DAS. I read people saying that's lines are big enough to handle a wheelchair. If only that was the only issue full time wheelies had.

I'm in WDW now and will be here until Oct 11. I'll able to see how the changeover goes for me at least.

 

[unkadug]

That's what was thinking about. Seems like forum folks are obsessed with cheaters and transfer files. I imagine many have little idea the issues which crop up when you can't easily get out of that chair. Not that I go around complaining but it does Saddam me the DAS program does not address this. In fact the policy specifically says if you are in a wheelchair user you don't qualify for the DAS. I read people saying that's lines are big enough to handle a wheelchair. If only that was the only issue full time wheelies had.

I'm in WDW now and will be here until Oct 11. I'll able to see how the changeover goes for me at least.

?? really??

 

[Gomer]

That is exactly what I am saying. Those with invisible disabilities were the main perpetrators of the abuse and, therefore, should lose the privileges associated with that system and be forced on DAS.
It was the permanently physically disabled who were the original designees of these special passes and all I am suggesting is that it go back to the way DISNEY originally initiated this program. It wasn't until Disney pandered to those with invisible disabilities that the abusive and abhorrent behavior occurred.

I wouldn't call it pandering to admit to a new type of disability that needs to be recognized and protected from discrimination. It is the evolution of social awareness. 20 years ago, my son would have been institutionalized and would never have an opportunity to even visit WDW, let alone have a GAC/DAS allow him additional leniencies in how he approaches the park. Society has progressed to acknowledge the invisible disability as a "real" disability to be accomodated and not hidden and ostracized. That is why this "pandering" as you describe it occured. And I would remind you that before that the same process occured for the physically disabled as well. There was a time where physically and mentalally disabled individuals would be institutionalized and not accomodated as they are now. Is it pandering to those in wheelchairs to ensure ramp access to buildings? Because that didn't exist 50 years ago, but it does now.

You imply that one type of disability is more deserving of accomodations than another, which is flat out predjudice no matter how you spin it.