GAC to Become DAS

[jaklgreen]

I am like your husband and a man. But the problem in America, is that boys have been being de-masculinized and thus you have males that are not men. But this is not their fault, but the fault of a society wanting everyone to be soft and feminine. That is my true opinion, it was not always this way, but is the only conclusion I can come to, just to let you know I am 45 years old. So I have had time to see the effects.

I don't think its is "feminization", I think men are just turning into selfish, rude, a-holes. I work in a restaurant where it is cafeteria style. I would say a good 70% of men that come thru with their families will walk off with his drink cup and leave their wives to not only pay but carry the trays of food and deal with the kids.

 

[mickeysaver]

Can anyone walk us through the guest experience in actually obtaining the DAS card itself?

Say a guest walks up with an autistic child, requesting a DAS. Is the picture taken at guest services? How long does it take to get the card once the photo has been taken? Basically, I am trying to figure out how crazy the lines are going to be at guest services each morning.

 

[fosse76]

What if two different members of the same party have a legitimate disability. And one disabled member loves Space Mountain and the other doesn't ride that ride. But the one who doesn't ride Space Mountain loves Tower of Terror but the other doesn't ride THAT ride? Can't do it because of the requirement that the guest listed on the DAS ride the ride.

Both would still get a DAS, they simply wouldn't be allowed to be listed on each other's as a member of the party. They would both have to get the DAS return time issued for the same attraction, but it would make it less atrractive to abusers, especially since the abusers would get left-out on immediate re-rides.

Also they DID do a test run of this in Disneyland over the last month. We visited at the beginning of September. We used to get a GAC card with a 'may use alternative entrance' stamp. At Guest Relations, we were told that this stamp was no longer being used. Instead we were given a GAC with a generic stamp. We would approach each ride and the cast member at the entrance would issue us a return ticket (basically a blank fast pass on which they would write a return time based on the wait time). We would then do something else in the area and return to the ride when it was our time. It worked extremely well, was fair to all guests, and people freaking out about this are the true abusers who are having their magical unlimited front of the line pass taken away.

Exactly.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Can anyone walk us through the guest experience in actually obtaining the DAS card itself?

Say a guest walks up with an autistic child, requesting a DAS. Is the picture taken at guest services? How long does it take to get the card once the photo has been taken? Basically, I am trying to figure out how crazy the lines are going to be at guest services each morning.

I would imagine if you went bright and early on October 9th you're going to be experiencing quite a lengthy wait. As time passes and fakers are deterred, the typical early morning line up will diminish and you should not have too significant of a wait. As to the entire process, I guess no one will really know until it actually goes live. Obviously the human element throws a wrench into many processes that would otherwise be incredibly efficient.

 

[ChrisM]

I am like your husband and a man. But the problem in America, is that boys have been being de-masculinized and thus you have males that are not men. But this is not their fault, but the fault of a society wanting everyone to be soft and feminine. That is my true opinion, it was not always this way, but is the only conclusion I can come to, just to let you know I am 45 years old. So I have had time to see the effects.

This isn't the effect of the de-masculinization of men, it's the result of the dissolution of the previously standing social contract in American society.

The "chivalrous" ideal of women and children first was coupled with the notion that men had social expectations of being the breadwinner, along with a variety of other tasks and goals. For a variety of reasons the social contract has changed and the old rules simply don't apply.

Now, I'm a nice guy (really!) and I get up for women, children, and the elderly on the train every day. But I can certainly understand the rationale of a man that wouldn't. What, exactly, are they getting out of the deal?

My father never changed a diaper nor cooked a meal in his life. But despite my astonishingly successful career, I've also fully participated in all child rearing activities, do all the cooking at home, and even most of the cleaning. Yet there is still a lingering expectation that, in addition to all of the new roles of the modern man, I continue to abide by the remnant code of the "traditional man". It's a confusing road to navigate - the generational differences are so stark most of us have no role model to show us the way (in in some cases our fathers will openly scoff at the household and child-rearing work we do), so I try to not get overly judgmental about a guy not offering up a seat on the bus.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

While I'm sure we'd all love to sit here and debate gender equality/inequality issues can we stick to the topic at hand please?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well, if it affects both men and women, then it's something that goes across genders, so it's probably a bit hasty to ascribe it to "feminization". I agree that it's something to do with modern culture, but I think it's more due to the... self-absorbededness (not a word, I know) that comes with current technologies and social media.

Yes, but you will notice that whenever this thing is referred to it is always "men don't give their seats". They hardly ever say..."People, male or female, don't give their seats to someone seemingly in need". Are all women pregnant or elderly? Are all men that seem able, really able? Are all women unable and needy of a seat? I think they answer to all of those is a resounding no! However, lets talk about men being the a-holes (as mentioned below)

I don't think its is "feminization", I think men are just turning into selfish, rude, a-holes. I work in a restaurant where it is cafeteria style. I would say a good 70% of men that come thru with their families will walk off with his drink cup and leave their wives to not only pay but carry the trays of food and deal with the kids.

Before feminization, for lack of a better term, that was completely reversed. The women would walk off with the cup and the men were left to pay and carry. Seems to me to be the very definition of feminization. Things change. Women are no longer on the pedestal that they once were. They wanted equality and for the most part (other then some pay discrepancies, not all) they got it, now it is being discovered that there were a few perks connected to the old days. To bad for some. For my daughters who have had worlds of opportunities open up to them because of it, I say hooray!

 

[flynnibus]

Both would still get a DAS, they simply wouldn't be allowed to be listed on each other's as a member of the party. They would both have to get the DAS return time issued for the same attraction, but it would make it less atrractive to abusers, especially since the abusers would get left-out on immediate re-rides.

This breaks down because you effectively force the entire family to wait for one attraction.

Kid1 wants to ride space mountain... gets a return time of 70mins
Kid2 had no interest in riding space mountain.. wants to ride Pooh

Kid2 can get a return time at Pooh... but Kid1 can not... so family has to split up because Kid1 can not ride anything with DAS until his space mountain time.

The shorter the return times are, the less this is an issue. It's a bit of a corner case.. but because of the topic at hand, its harder to say 'just deal with it'. The constraint is exactly what you want to stop abusers... but also stops legit family situations.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This breaks down because you effectively force the entire family to wait for one attraction.

Kid1 wants to ride space mountain... gets a return time of 70mins
Kid2 had no interest in riding space mountain.. wants to ride Pooh

Kid2 can get a return time at Pooh... but Kid1 can not... so family has to split up because Kid1 can not ride anything with DAS until his space mountain time.

The shorter the return times are, the less this is an issue. It's a bit of a corner case.. but because of the topic at hand, its harder to say 'just deal with it'. The constraint is exactly what you want to stop abusers... but also stops legit family situations.

But how is this different from the situation many other families find themselves? The family cannot get in both lines or simultaneous FastPasses.

 

[ddrongowski]

The "chivalrous" ideal of women and children first was coupled with the notion that men had social expectations of being the breadwinner, along with a variety of other tasks and goals. For a variety of reasons the social contract has changed and the old rules simply don't apply.

So if a man is not supposed to be a man, then he has no reason to be chivalrous, etc... as you stated. So this just enhances that yes (de-manning boys/males) aka feminization/de-masculinization does cause this. After all if you are taught to not be a man, then the social contract of being a man does not apply to you. Does that make sense? Also cooking, cleaning, raising children has nothing to due with it. Those were and always have been part of being a man/male.

 

[Gomer]

I don't recall anyone mentioning men giving up a seat to an able bodied woman. This conversation was around giving up seats to elderly, disabled, pregnant women and young children. I would expect a healthy man OR WOMAN in their 20's or 30s to get up for any of those people.

 

[flynnibus]

But how is this different from the situation many other families find themselves? The family cannot get in both lines or simultaneous FastPasses.

Because a disabled guest is always entitled to use DAS services... guests are not entitled to always having a FP. The limitation prevents a DAS holder from using their DAS based on restrictions placed on their party. There is a general principle in the enforcement of the ADA that the disabled should not be required to be separated from their companions. This is an interesting case because it's about two separate individuals, who are bound by their party. When they would be minors, the problem gets even more complicated because of parents not wanting their kids alone, etc. This is an area of pure interpretation by the courts... this would not be a B&W issue. The problem is, the DOJ and others err far far to the benefit of the doubt to the disabled.

 

[ddrongowski]

I don't recall anyone mentioning men giving up a seat to an able bodied woman. This conversation was around giving up seats to elderly, disabled, pregnant women and young children. I would expect a healthy man OR WOMAN in their 20's or 30s to get up for any of those people.

You might expect it, but your going to be very disappointed.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I don't recall anyone mentioning men giving up a seat to an able bodied woman. This conversation was around giving up seats to elderly, disabled, pregnant women and young children. I would expect a healthy man OR WOMAN in their 20's or 30s to get up for any of those people.

Read back through it, you will see a number of references to men not giving up their seat. What you won't find is anyone specifically sighting women for the same offense.

 

[Gomer]

Read back through it, you will see a number of references to men not giving up their seat. What you won't find is anyone specifically sighting women for the same offense.

Well, as one of the initial people to discuss the topic, I will state that my post as not intended in that way. In fact, even though overall I was disappointed in how many people offered their seats to those in need, when it did occur, women did it just as much as the men. This includes my wife who, depending on whose turn it was, was willing to give up her seat when necesarry to hold the stroller and the bag while I sat with my children on my lap.

The issue at hand isn't one of chivalry or masulinity, its a lack of awareness of other's needs and the placement of self above all others. Others may want to push this as a gender role conversation, but that was not my intent.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well, as one of the initial people to discuss the topic, I will state that my post as not intended in that way. In fact, even though overall I was disappointed in how many people offered their seats to those in need, when it did occur, women did it just as much as the men. This includes my wife who, depending on whose turn it was, was willing to give up her seat when necesarry to hold the stroller and the bag while I sat with my children on my lap.

The issue at hand isn't one of chivalry or masulinity, its a lack of awareness of other's needs and the placement of self above all others. Others may want to push this as a gender role conversation, but that was not my intent.

Fine, then you weren't one of the people that my post was directed at. It is also, though, a matter of equality. It has been proven again and again that this situation is usually at the end of the day. Everyone of every gender and age is tired and, in many cases, hurting. If you are hurting and you give your seat up to a person that isn't, shouldn't they turn around and give it back to you? Otherwise, you're just being overly chivalrous. You have the need and they get the seat. I guess that makes you a hero, I stopped trying to be a hero when I left Vietnam, there was no future in it, even then. I will give my seat to someone that is obviously in need, however, so does that make me a bad person.

 

[luv]

I don't recall anyone mentioning men giving up a seat to an able bodied woman. This conversation was around giving up seats to elderly, disabled, pregnant women and young children. I would expect a healthy man OR WOMAN in their 20's or 30s to get up for any of those people.

Oh, please.

We have people whining that those in ECVs shouldn't even get ON the bus if there are able-bodied people who want the seats. The handicapped seats. The seats clearly marked as being reserved for others and needing to be relinquished to them. Get out of a handicapped seat for someone in a wheelchair or ECV?! That's not fair!

Not only will they not voluntarily give it up, the feel righteous indignation when asked to relinquish it.

You'd expect they'd be leaping out of the seats, but no. They're whining and stomping their feet over having to do so.

It makes me wonder who raised them and it is frightening to think about what sort of human beings their children will become.

If you expect them to get up, either lower your expectations or prepare to be shocked.

 

[Gomer]

Fine, they you weren't one of the people that my post was directed at. It is also, though, a matter of equality. It has been proven again and again that this situation is usually at the end of the day. Everyone of every gender and age is tired and, in many cases, hurting. If you are hurting and you give your seat up to a person that isn't, shouldn't they turn around and give it back to you? Otherwise, you're just being overly chivalrous. You have the need and they get the seat. I guess that makes you a hero, I stopped trying to be a hero when I left Vietnam, there was no future in it, even then. I will give my seat to someone that is obviously in need, however, so does that make me a bad person.

Yes, I would say the need of a pregnant woman, 85 year old man, or 4 year old is greater than the need of my own aching feet. So no, I don't think giving up the seat would automatically entitle me to take it back. With rare exceptions a 25 year old is better equipped to handle a standing bus ride than and 85 year old. So, its logical to say one needs the seat more than the other. I'm not saying I expect people to stand up. I'm saying I wish they would. That is all.

edit: Yes I do realize I used the word expect in my prior post. Poor choice of words.

 

[minninedaisy74]

Oh, please.

We have people whining that those in ECVs shouldn't even get ON the bus if there are able-bodied people who want the seats. The handicapped seats. The seats clearly marked as being reserved for others and needing to be relinquished to them. Get out of a handicapped seat for someone in a wheelchair or ECV?! That's not fair!

Not only will they not voluntarily give it up, the feel righteous indignation when asked to relinquish it.

You'd expect they'd be leaping out of the seats, but no. They're whining and stomping their feet over having to do so.

It makes me wonder who raised them and it is frightening to think about what sort of human beings their children will become.

If you expect them to get up, either lower your expectations or prepare to be shocked.

No one was whining. There was a story about an obese women who insisted that 3 sleeping children get up so she could board that bus even though she rolled up as the bus was pulling up and hadn't waited at all. You keep trying to twist that one story around to fit your agenda and it is kind of pathetic. Not one poster who commented on that particular story said anything about making a disabled person wait for extensive amounts of time. Like I said before we are family that generally stands so others who need to be seated can but no way would I have woke up my children so Ursula /who from what the OP said had a big attitude/ could board . I can assure you as non confrontational as Disney is the bus driver would not have made me. In fact this whole GAC abuse thing has become a problem because Disney refuses to be confrontational and stop problems like this and line cutting until it us way out of hand.

Seriously you last statements makes you sound far more judgmental then anyone on this entire thread.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

This breaks down because you effectively force the entire family to wait for one attraction.

Kid1 wants to ride space mountain... gets a return time of 70mins
Kid2 had no interest in riding space mountain.. wants to ride Pooh

Kid2 can get a return time at Pooh... but Kid1 can not... so family has to split up because Kid1 can not ride anything with DAS until his space mountain time.

The shorter the return times are, the less this is an issue. It's a bit of a corner case.. but because of the topic at hand, its harder to say 'just deal with it'. The constraint is exactly what you want to stop abusers... but also stops legit family situations.

Again, though, this is exactly how a family without a disability deals with it as well. Our 2 kids don't always want to ride the same rides, so we either split up, or one child has to wait while the other rides. DAS makes this equal as well. Will some like it? Of course not, but that is the way it will be, and you can NEVER please everyone.