GAC to Become DAS

[darthspielberg]

This worries me on some levels. I absolutely understand the need to examine the system, but I think making it like a FastPass with return times could cause lots and lots of headaches for both certain guests and Disney itself. I know it's been much discussed so I wont' go into why waiting is a problem for certain guests, but I guess I won't make any real judgements until Disney actually comes out and reveals the plan, except to say that...it really bums me out...I am going in December along side my cousin. He has always used GAC and will be using the new system which means that, in the end, I won't be able to join them on rides. NOW, I don't care about Fastpassing lines or anything like that. I actually like waiting in most lines, since Disney is good at creating a fun queue experience, BUT I love riding rides with him and my Aunt, and Disney probably won't let them put me on their reservations for a ride time. That's a huge bummer, especially since I planned my trip specifically be there at the same time as them.

Oh well. Either this will go down badly, and Disney will have to think quickly to make it work better OR it will work just like they want and it becomes the standard, and at the moment it's hard to say that either is more likely

 

[IWantMyMagicBand]

This worries me on some levels. I absolutely understand the need to examine the system, but I think making it like a FastPass with return times could cause lots and lots of headaches for both certain guests and Disney itself. I know it's been much discussed so I wont' go into why waiting is a problem for certain guests, but I guess I won't make any real judgements until Disney actually comes out and reveals the plan, except to say that...it really bums me out...I am going in December along side my cousin. He has always used GAC and will be using the new system which means that, in the end, I won't be able to join them on rides. NOW, I don't care about Fastpassing lines or anything like that. I actually like waiting in most lines, since Disney is good at creating a fun queue experience, BUT I love riding rides with him and my Aunt, and Disney probably won't let them put me on their reservations for a ride time. That's a huge bummer, especially since I planned my trip specifically be there at the same time as them.

Oh well. Either this will go down badly, and Disney will have to think quickly to make it work better OR it will work just like they want and it becomes the standard, and at the moment it's hard to say that either is more likely

There is no restriction on who the companions can be, just the amount of companions. I don't think it has changed for you?

 

[flynnibus]

It happens with the current GAC card too. A family of 13 will get 3 cards

Yeah, groups do it now to get around the '6 per card' limit. The one I outlined would be used to get around the 'only one return time per card' limit... and could also be used to get around the guest limit per card. But the 'value' in this gaming is getting more rides in.

Disney won't limit it like that. It will be a loop hole, but honestly, each DAS is still limited. They won't get unlimited return times and with those return times, they still will have to wait.

The point of my exercise was to show one of the ways how there will still be an attractive angle to the DAS for abusers. The 'one return time' will discourage many, but if the workarounds and payoffs balance out.. abuse will grow over time. DAS certainly puts up new barriers... but it's not locked tight.

 

[darthspielberg]

There is no restriction on who the companions can be, just the amount of companions. I don't think it has changed for you?

Oh, interesting. Not sure it helps in my case (since I am not sure she'd let him go on a ride without her or her partner) but interesting to know that.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Yeah, DAS still has potential for abuse, but the benefit payoff is so significantly less that I believe that alone will discourage the vast majority of current scammers/abusers from using it. That itself is better than doing nothing at all, like they've been doing for years.

 

[ddrongowski]

I can understand a fifteen minute wait time is not much if you are physically able to stand for 15 minutes, what concerns me is people like my Dad, he has broken his back twice and after three surgeries he is lucky that he can stand and walk at all, 15 minutes wait time when he has to stand is a physical impossibility. He has no problem with the standby lines that let you stay in a wheelchair or scooter through out the line no matter how long they are, but those where he cant he has to stand 15 minutes is more than just a problem, it is not going to safely happen.

From the article, looks like he will just go thru the now used wheelchair way.

"There are more radical changes in DCA, where all queues and park facilities meet ADA requirements for wheelchair accessibility. In DCA, a person in a wheelchair or ECV won’t receive any extra courtesies or services beyond those visitors who are not in a wheelchair. People visiting DCA in wheelchairs likely won’t qualify for a DAS, and will now experience the park as everyone else does, including waiting in Standby lines and juggling Fastpass return times. The task of implementing that culture change will be more intense in Anaheim than Orlando as there are currently 55 attractions at Disneyland Resort that use a ride vehicle, and about 35 of those have wheelchair accessible queues. Comparatively, there are a total of 46 attractions at Walt Disney World’s four parks combined that use a ride vehicle, and 38 of those have wheelchair accessible queues. There are more rides overall at Disneyland Resort compared to WDW, and more of them in Anaheim are not wheelchair accessible.
At Disneyland Park there are 20 rides that have been identified as non-wheelchair accessible, and at those 20 rides an accommodation of going through the exit or a Fastpass lane will be offered to those in wheelchairs. A person in a wheelchair doesn’t need a DAS to get access at those attractions, thereby limiting the issuing of DAS cards in that park. Disneyland’s operations teams are studying ways to restore the wheelchair accessibility designed into the queues of some newer rides, like Indiana Jones, to allow a DCA-style equity to exist at as many Disneyland rides as possible. It should be noted that the work implementing DAS, which has had lots of executive involvement from both coasts, has now generated serious discussion in TDA on creating a five-year plan of capital expenditure to go in to those older rides and retrofit them with wheelchair accessible queues. But that’s still a few years away."

 

[flynnibus]

So, what I cannot understand is why a family cannot get a time, grab a snack, then get the same special treatment they have always gotten? Seems like built in breaks could be very helpful.

It boils down to 'taking something away'

Every family I know (personally) that has used the service that has commented on this as the story as it is breaking through mainstream and social media now (outside the disney fan-sphere) has said basically the same thing. Initial shock, followed by a calming period of 'well, I guess I can understand WHY they are doing it.. but sucks for us'.

It's initial anger... and depending on how rational they are... eventually calm down to looking at it reasonably. Some are just going to flail and regardless because you've reduced what they had - and it doesn't matter if the new system is good enough or not.. you've taken something away so that makes me mad.

This is what happens when Disney lets something go on far too long unchecked... the same exact type of response happened when the enforcement of FP return times was announced.

 

[flynnibus]

So what about the people with kids in wheelchairs, or anyone in a wheelchair? What are we supposed to do, sit in the shade for 2 hours while we wait for splash mountain? What if there isn't a parade during that time or we've already ate? We normally go the first of August and most lines are long anyway, whether the queue is wheelchair accessible or not. Besides, how many queue's in MK or Epcot are wheel chair accessible anyway? The GAC allowed us to enjoy every ride together as a family

You weren't supposed to have a GAC in the first place if all you needed was a wheelchair...

 

[ddrongowski]

This worries me on some levels. I absolutely understand the need to examine the system, but I think making it like a FastPass with return times could cause lots and lots of headaches for both certain guests and Disney itself. I know it's been much discussed so I wont' go into why waiting is a problem for certain guests, but I guess I won't make any real judgements until Disney actually comes out and reveals the plan, except to say that...it really bums me out...I am going in December along side my cousin. He has always used GAC and will be using the new system which means that, in the end, I won't be able to join them on rides. NOW, I don't care about Fastpassing lines or anything like that. I actually like waiting in most lines, since Disney is good at creating a fun queue experience, BUT I love riding rides with him and my Aunt, and Disney probably won't let them put me on their reservations for a ride time. That's a huge bummer, especially since I planned my trip specifically be there at the same time as them.

Oh well. Either this will go down badly, and Disney will have to think quickly to make it work better OR it will work just like they want and it becomes the standard, and at the moment it's hard to say that either is more likely

Why would you not be able to join him on rides? They are not stopping the group, just making sure that the group would not go to the front of the line without the equivalent wait time of if you stepped in the line and waited.

 

[flynnibus]

Yeah, DAS still has potential for abuse, but the benefit payoff is so significantly less that I believe that alone will discourage the vast majority of current scammers/abusers from using it. That itself is better than doing nothing at all, like they've been doing for years.

Yup... I would describe it as 'Disney has taken steps to discourage abuse - but Disney has not stopped abuse'

It's going to be far harder to put the genie back in the bottle now. Far too many people have tasted the sweet stuff... and they will be more willing to go through extra hoops now to get back on the gravy train to gain some sort of advantage vs what they are expected to do like everyone else.

 

[flynnibus]

Changing the benefits isn't going to change abuse. It's only going to change how much of a benefit those abusers (And the valid users) get.

I'm sorry - but that attitude completely ignores the human behavior. The reason you have abusers in the first place is the 'gain vs pain' payoff.

Changing the gain will change abuse... because the gain is the only reason the abusers chose to participate.

 

[darthspielberg]

Why would you not be able to join him on rides? They are not stopping the group, just making sure that the group would not go to the front of the line without the equivalent wait time of if you stepped in the line and waited.

It seemed to me like the plan was to limit how many people can go with the person the time is being issued for.

 

[ddrongowski]

Yeah, groups do it now to get around the '6 per card' limit. The one I outlined would be used to get around the 'only one return time per card' limit... and could also be used to get around the guest limit per card. But the 'value' in this gaming is getting more rides in.



The point of my exercise was to show one of the ways how there will still be an attractive angle to the DAS for abusers. The 'one return time' will discourage many, but if the workarounds and payoffs balance out.. abuse will grow over time. DAS certainly puts up new barriers... but it's not locked tight.

Well if the scammers do try to abuse it, the wait in the lines at the kiosks will be very long. That is one of the big detractors of the way the new system is. Imagine it this way, a group of the das ride scammers standing in the kiosk line 30 minutes when the standby line was only 30 minutes. You get in the standby line the same time they go to the das kiosk. So they get to the front of the das kiosk line, at the same time you get on the ride, and then get a return ticket to the ride in 20 minutes. So now they waited 50 minutes trying to scam the system. Now as the abuse increases those that truly need the DAS will start to complain and Disney will modify the DAS system. Maybe making it were if you voluntarily show proof of a need, then the kiosk visit will not be necessary, etc...

 

[flynnibus]

I can understand a fifteen minute wait time is not much if you are physically able to stand for 15 minutes, what concerns me is people like my Dad, he has broken his back twice and after three surgeries he is lucky that he can stand and walk at all, 15 minutes wait time when he has to stand is a physical impossibility. He has no problem with the standby lines that let you stay in a wheelchair or scooter through out the line no matter how long they are, but those where he cant he has to stand 15 minutes is more than just a problem, it is not going to safely happen.

Then he should get a wheelchair and use that for his waits. There was nothing stopping him from doing that before, and there is no change in that for now.

 

[ddrongowski]

It seemed to me like the plan was to limit how many people can go with the person the time is being issued for.

Do you have a reference to why you believed this? I keep reading where they say the DAS persons "party"...

 

[flynnibus]

Well if the scammers do try to abuse it, the wait in the lines at the kiosks will be very long. That is one of the big detractors of the way the new system is. Imagine it this way, a group of the das ride scammers standing in the kiosk line 30 minutes when the standby line was only 30 minutes

This is the side of things we can't interpret until we've seen it in action. There is no way Disney will let lines persist at waits like 30mins to get a return time. That would be a complete utter failure on their part and the whole thing would blow up. They simply can't let it get to that point. How are they going to stop it? Unknown, but I think its safe to say that won't be the norm.. it can't be.

The biggest issue is going to be on the distribution of DAS cards... that will be an interesting exercise.

 

[awilliams4]

Yup... I would describe it as 'Disney has taken steps to discourage abuse - but Disney has not stopped abuse'

It's going to be far harder to put the genie back in the bottle now. Far too many people have tasted the sweet stuff... and they will be more willing to go through extra hoops now to get back on the gravy train to gain some sort of advantage vs what they are expected to do like everyone else.

I believe the abuse will go way down. The only way to spin this is you may kinda get two fast passes at a time now. You could use the DAS at TSM to get passes for 120 minutes from now and go run to RnR and use your theme park ticket to get the traditional fast pass. If they enforce the return time on the DAS in this example, it may make it difficult enough where timing a FP with a DAS will be too problematic and not worth any effort at all to do this.

 

[IWantMyMagicBand]

Wouldn't it just be lovely though if they could link, eventually, MDE with MB and DAS. You register when you book your trip, and get given, say 5 extra FP+ for the park (taking total FP+ to 8). You can book the FP+ times 60 days out. 60 days to reinforce the plan with the kids. If you want to book all times in the morning then you can do, then leave the park.
On arrival at your resort, your DAS assigned CM (because in my vision I imagine there will be one). They authorise your extra FP+ based on your needs. Therefore no queuing at kiosks unless you need to change something.
Therefore the only people having to queue would be APs and off-siters.
Just a thought.

 

[flynnibus]

I believe the abuse will go way down. The only way to spin this is you may kinda get two fast passes at a time now

I've already explained several ways this will give abusers an edge over regular guests

1 - There are no 'all the FPs are gone' like there is for regular users. They can opt to use a FP-style wait all day long on all attractions if they chose.
2 - You are not limited to 3-4 per day like you are with a FP+ system. They can opt to use a FP-style wait all day long on all attractions if they chose.
3 - FP+ holders are limited to one FP-style wait per attraction per day - a DAS holder can re-ride an attraction multiple times per day with FP-style waits.
4 - By having multiple DAS cards in your group, you can increase the # of FP-style waits you can stack and effectively reduce the amount of wait between attractions.
5 - By having multiple DAS cards in your group, you can end-around the limit of holding one return time at once, and ride an attraction multiple times consecutively
6 - You can use a FP-style wait on any attraction, not just those with FP (tho of course in WDW, FPs were greatly expanded for MM+)
7 - DAS users can use FP-style waits at all parks in a day, while FP+ users are limited to one park a day.

Now if Disney were to enforce a strict return time on the DAS holders... that would limit the effectiveness of stacking and other tricks. But I'm guessing at this point Disney will NOT have a strict return time on these passes, or a big window (say 2hrs) because of the very nature of the guests these passes are trying to serve. I actually expect no enforcement on return times because the limit of one return-time per pass is effective in isolation and return-times are not rationed out based on how many other DAS holders are out there (like FP is).

 

[Neo778]

I joined up because this is an awful idea and pretty messed up to legitimately disabled people. I am currently on dialysis waiting for a kidney transplant and the only way I can do the parks is with the GAC, because I don't know how I'll be feeling from one moment to the next so how am I suppose to plan my day like that. Also I saw people on here talking about seeing younger people in there 20's getting on rides that quote "didn't look disabled" NEWS FLASH I don't look disabled! I'm 34 and have been on dialysis since I was 24 I look completely healthy but am far from it as I need a machine to stay alive 3 times a week. I have a handicap parking pass and get harassed regularly by cops to show my License number to prove I'm disabled because I don't look disabled. Think about that next time you spout off with your judgements! This is going to ruin my experience. I probably can't go to Disney now especially in the he Summer months. Me and my gf and I have been yearly passholders for quite sometime. This is one of the only things that helps me get away from the awful reality that is my life, being young and confined to a machine 3 times a week for 6 hours per treatment. So please think before you think every disabled person sells there GAC!