GAC to Become DAS

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ddrongowski

Well-Known Member
Thats fine, but you still offer no real advice to improving the system.
Unless you are a major stock holder, Disney is not going to take your advice anyway. So if you truly want to change Disney buy buy buy!!!! Once you have ~25% of the shares, they might listen to you, until that, we here are all just blowing smoke.;)
 
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ddrongowski

Well-Known Member
Thank you for your post. I could not have put it better. We are a family that a has used a GAC for our child with a non-apparent disability for the last few visits and it has simply made our trip happier and more manageable. We were not aware of the GAC on previous visits, making touring the parks more difficult. As our son gets older his coping skills for the challenges that he struggles with have improved immensely and we'll be trying the new DAS system in February with hopes that it works for him. For those individuals here showing such anger towards families like ours, please take a step back and think what it must be like to walk in this individuals shoes for just one day. I can guaranty that you wouldn't wish any disability, especially a non-apparent one, on any child that you cared about.

com·pas·sion
noun
noun: compassion; 

  1. sympathetic concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.
This is not a snub or meant to be aggressive, but that compassion works both ways. There are those that are abusing the present GAC (those that do not have a handicap, etc...), and thus make our trip unhappier and less manageable. Why not have compassion on us people also? See the complaint is not those that need it, but against those that "LIE" and "CHEAT" the current GAC system. How would you feel if "EVERYONE" that went to Disney got a GAC? Would that still "simply made our trip happier and more manageable"? I do not believe so, and with the way it is going it will end up this way soon, "Everyone has a GAC because Disney does not question it..." okay maybe not everyone will have a GAC, but when 50-70% do then your GAC will be useless. Or do you believe it is okay for lineitis to be a GAC use?
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
I literally just found out that my wife's brother used gac on their last few visits. We had no idea until today and I can assure you that there is no disability , visible or otherwise in his family. There were even posts on his Facebook page with other parents, also with healthy children, hoping that gac will be their for their next visit. The refer to it as a "must", and that park got my temperature up. I never felt the need to interject in this thread and now that I know at least 2 families that abuse this it opened my eyes. I hope for their sake karma doesn't give them a reason to actually need this someday.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
It's funny how people who claimed that these weren't unlimited fast passes are now revealing that yes, in fact that's just what they were

Yeah, that's always a fun flip-flop.

I mean, I know they weren't truly 'fotl' passes in the absolute sense... but they do offer significant advantages. Advantages that many would constantly argue 'didn't exist' or 'really wasn't that big of a deal'. Yet now when it's taken away... OMG I can't live without.. etc :)
 

arko

Well-Known Member
And since 8.5 rides per days is the average for most guest. You did just fine.

I should qualify that 8 as 8 attractions, we count Wedway People Mover, and the monorail as an attraction, actual rides where we use the GAC is about 3 at MK, 2 at Epcot, and 2 at DHS, and 1 at AK

-Buzz Lightyear
-Winnie the Pooh
-Pirates of the Caribbbean ( we sit and wait to use rear entrance)

-Space Ship Earth (we sit and wait to use exit)
-Soarin

-Star Tours
-Toy Story Mania

-Kilimanjaro Safari

We may do Mickeys Philharmagic and People Mover, but have never needed to use a GAC on either.
 

IWantMyMagicBand

Well-Known Member
What is ADA afraid of?

I wonder if they have the same issue is Asia or Europe.
Bet they are allowed to say yes sir we would love to help you, just show me a Doctor's note.

If you are disabled you are disabled, proof should not be a big deal.
In the U.K you must, at the very least, present a DR or Consultant letter and a blue badge if you want disable parking (a blue badge is issued by government and entitles the person to closer parking spaces, they have your photo on them). Some parks require pre-registration and upload of said document at least 24 hours before visiting.
Each park has it own policy with regard to companion numbers and wait times. LEGOLAND, you are given a pass that has 10 ticket stubs. You go in by the fastpass equivalent entrance usually (but their fastpass, qbot, is chargeable at £15 per person so not many people use it). You can use the 10 tickets for any ride, but you cannot return to the same ride within an hour. The disabled person has a red hand stamp, members of the party have a black stamp. The red stamp must ride. We have used this system, but never used all 10 tickets, as my "requirement" is shaded queuing, and not all rides are out in the open.
Chessington WOA requires pre-registration with an in-person visit to adventure services on the day, and each ride has its own criteria.
Alton Towers seem to change their position on it frequently, even for wheelchair bound guests. Depending on which CM you get you may go front of line, or you are asked to come back at a specified time. In the case of high-frequency loading, like the Smiler (new rollercoaster), all wheelchair guest must be able to enter the ride vehicle and depart the ride vehicle in the same time as an ambulatory guest, even if you need your carers to load you in and out.

I was discussing this with a friend of mine, whose son has just been classed as Autistic. Now, my middle child (age 4) displays the same behaviour as hers, sometimes worse, and he is going through assessment at the moment (but only as he is having speech therapy). I know that taking my son to a themepark is stressful as he is a little when queuing but he is just bored, and I can't feed him sweet stuff or snacks the whole time queuing. He'll kick his siblings, climb stuff etc. He is given the 1,2,3 warning. On 3 I take him out of the queue and we wait for my husband to come off the ride with the other two. If he misbehaves again, he doesn't get to ride the next ride. I do not care if other parents look down on me for disciplining my child, even if in the happiest land in the world, he needs to learn, and slowly we are getting there. I don't know any autistic adults my age, and when we were little it wasn't a behaviour issue, it was called being a brat. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but when it is purely behaviour, without any other factors (like hyperacusis, learning difficulties etc), it is down to lack of "training". I have 3 children, all age under 7. I have handicapped cousins, deaf relatives, and have worked with special needs, so I am able to show compassion to those who do genuinely suffer on a day to day basis.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
It would be a better world, but it will never happen. After all aren't "I" more important then "everyone" else and thus "I" should have privileges "everyone" else shouldn't?

Ethics no longer seem to matter in this world one bit. Disney fans and regular visitors to the 47 mi.² seem to reinforce this more & more.
 

dopeylove

Member
It's amazing what a swat on the butt will do for a kid. Or the threat of one.

I read that article...

A few things stood out...

"Suddenly, Little Miss pulled her signature trick -- flipping over backwards so that she was upside-down with her feet still hung over the hubs's shoulders and her head touching his lower back. She almost took out the guest in line behind us. We tried to explain why she couldn't do that in line, but she was already beyond reasoning."

Yes, she was beyond reasoning because she is not yet at the AGE OF REASONING! When my kid was shoulder age she also loved to do that trick. And, when she did, she'd be "dropped" by me, as my neck didn't appreciate it. Did I really drop her? No. But, I let her think I was going to. She learned pretty quickly that if she wants to ride on Daddy's shoulders...that isn't how you behave. I am not a Jungle Gym.

I didn't try to "reason" with her, or show her the futility and ignorance of her move. I simply let her realize that there could be a result from her actions. Her limited brain, after a few attempts, figured it out.

"Unless the wait for an attraction is less than 30 minutes, we're not even going to try. It's not worth Little Miss's safety and the safety of the guests around her. "

What makes it 30 minutes? And not 20? Or 10?

And, what is this little kid going to do that threatens the safety of the guests around her? If you truly consider your child a threat to others, why did you bring them to a potentially crowded place? I call bull...

And then there is this...

"There aren't even any playgrounds in The Magic Kingdom."

Um, what do you think Casey's is? Before Casey's there was the Donald Duck boat. There are playgrounds all over the parks, and they are the bane of my existence when I take the kid (because she loves them).

Not to mention all the other "not ride" attractions they have such as SotMK and the new Pirates stuff. There's also Tom Sawyer Island and Swiss Family Robinson's Treehouse. I could go on...

And then there's...

"So tell me -- what am I supposed to do with an overstimulated, over-energized autistic child while we wait for an attraction?"

I dunno, stimulate them? Calm them down? Whoop their tiny little bums?

What rubbish.

My kid got spankings a lot as a younger child, and as a result, all I need to use today (and since she was about 4 years old) is a tone of voice to put her in line behaviorally. Is my kid perfect, or my parenting perfect? Certainly not, that's not my point.

My point is that if you coddle your children, of course they are going to act up. They are NOT adults, legally, physically or mentally. Stop thinking of them as such. And, if they do have a mental "disability", stop trying to exploit that for your own gain because you are a lazy parent.

I've worked with severely autistic children, this sort of coddling is just silly, and frankly an insult to those who have children who are severely autistic. Severe autism is sad..."mildly" autistic children who are seen by their parents...no...paraded by them...as they have no issues divulging that information...about how "autistic" their child is"...is even sadder.

Kid can't wait in line? Fine. Either build the fear of god in them that if they don't behave they will face a worse consequence, or don't do it.

I am so sick of this "every child is autistic" crap.


REALLY??? And for you my dear, there is KARMA...may all your future trips to WDW be surrounded by all levels of autistic children as you wait in line with them because EVERYONE should experience "this 'every child is autistic' crap". So I hope that you will have a MAGICAL DAY on your future trips when you have a spitting, nose picking, uncontrollable vocal tick, autistic child standing right beside you for an hour!
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
Are you not a Disney fan and a regular visitor to WDW? :rolleyes:
He may be local but clearly her talking about those that are regulars that abuse the systems in place. It doesn't mean he participated in it.

My in laws I mentioned are in Florida and former cms. If I ever go with them I will not spend one minute in the parks with such a low class of human.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
One angle the current rumored system does not address... is the idea of abusers getting multiple cards for party to get more rerides. They should make it so a DAS holder can not also be a 'guest' of a DAS holder.

Here's how you would work it.. and why it needs to be addressed.

I'm a party of 4 dudes. I send Dude1 in to get a DAS for his party of 4 (Dude1...4). I then send Dude2 in to get a DAS for 'his' party of 4 (same Dude1...4). Now we have 2 DAS cards in our party. That means we can hold up to 2 different DAS 'time slots' at the same time. Extend the scenario and you can get more.

Dude1 goes to kiosk and gets return time T1. Dude2 goes to kiosk and gets return time T2.

Now you goto the attraction, Dude1 flashes his DAS, and all four people get on. Woohoo! Let's ride again! Loop around.. Dude2 flashes his DAS and all four people get on again. Of course Dude2 could have gotten a return time for a separate attraction in the first place.. and reduced his effective wait by doing the first attraction while waiting for his T2 time to come up. No go and get new T3 and T4 times... and repeat the process. Now the group can bounce between rides with reduced waits with minimal effort. The more passes they have, the more rides they can do before turning to the kiosk.

Now here is the problem. You can't limit a DAS to one per party. Why not? What if a family has two disabled kids that each prefer different rides? If you only had one pass, you'd force the pass holder to ride everything. If little Johnny doesn't like Space Mountain, but his disabled older sister does... she needs her own pass. Now each child needs their own pass.

You could 'mark' each DAS accompanying guest with a stamp... but you can't exclude a stamped user from getting a DAS for the reason just mentioned above. The solution is to require DAS guests to have their own timecards.. which can only have one time on it at a time. But Disney's solution appears to be more like a FP pass that is consumed.. vs a timecard that is reused.
 

IWantMyMagicBand

Well-Known Member
You could 'mark' each DAS accompanying guest with a stamp... but you can't exclude a stamped user from getting a DAS for the reason just mentioned above. The solution is to require DAS guests to have their own timecards.. which can only have one time on it at a time. But Disney's solution appears to be more like a FP pass that is consumed.. vs a timecard that is reused.

True, but wouldn't a CM think it odd if all the dudes had both disables stamps and guest stamps?
I like the suggestion of the guests having their own card.

(I'm singing All the Young Dudes in my head now....)
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
True, but wouldn't a CM think it odd if all the dudes had both disables stamps and guest stamps?

CMs know people game the system now... their suspicions don't mean squat in terms of being able to stop people. But in the example given... the attraction CM wouldn't know Dude2 was a guest and had a DAS pass. He doesn't know Dude2 has a DAS unless he shows it.

Only when he gets his next DAS pass at the kiosk would his 'double dip' be exposed.. and there are legit reasons why he might have both (like my example).. so you can't stop him from getting a DAS card and also riding with someone else who might have one.

In effect.. you need each user (including party members) to have their own time tracking. But that's difficult as well.. because now you would expect all party members to goto the kiosk to get their next stamp (or allow one person to redeem multiple DAS cards together)

This is why you need electronic tokens like MDE and RFID! You could easily assign a return time to each member of the party, and by having it electronic. By not just a paper pass that is disposed of, you can now block double dipping because the system knows each person is holding a return time. The alternative is the reused timecard.. so again you block double dipping because you can see the pending return time.

I'm still convinced DAS is structured to be integrated into MDE... it just can't yet due to other priorities.
 

IWantMyMagicBand

Well-Known Member
CMs know people game the system now... their suspicions don't mean squat in terms of being able to stop people. But in the example given... the attraction CM wouldn't know Dude2 was a guest and had a DAS pass. He doesn't know Dude2 has a DAS unless he shows it.

Only when he gets his next DAS pass at the kiosk would his 'double dip' be exposed.. and there are legit reasons why he might have both (like my example).. so you can't stop him from getting a DAS card and also riding with someone else who might have one.

In effect.. you need each user (including party members) to have their own time tracking. But that's difficult as well.. because now you would expect all party members to goto the kiosk to get their next stamp (or allow one person to redeem multiple DAS cards together)

This is why you need electronic tokens like MDE and RFID! You could easily assign a return time to each member of the party, and by having it electronic. By not just a paper pass that is disposed of, you can now block double dipping because the system knows each person is holding a return time. The alternative is the reused timecard.. so again you block double dipping because you can see the pending return time.

I'm still convinced DAS is structured to be integrated into MDE... it just can't yet due to other priorities.
I get what you mean now. In the U.K your hand is stamped. I was assuming that a cheater would have a red and black stamp (for instance) side by side on their hand.
Integration into MDE will hopefully take place once the initial rollout problems have been identified and fixed.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I get what you mean now. In the U.K your hand is stamped. I was assuming that a cheater would have a red and black stamp (for instance) side by side on their hand.
Integration into MDE will hopefully take place once the initial rollout problems have been identified and fixed.

Yeah, but back to my example.. if you have two legitimate disabled people in your party... having both stamps wouldn't necessarily be disallowed.

The root problem is the guest get to 'ride' on any DAS card holder and guests are not limited to associating with a single DAS holder (but that couldn't be enforced either.. for the same example above). This guest 'float' is the gap that allows for abuse
 

IWantMyMagicBand

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but back to my example.. if you have two legitimate disabled people in your party... having both stamps wouldn't necessarily be disallowed.

The root problem is the guest get to 'ride' on any DAS card holder and guests are not limited to associating with a single DAS holder (but that couldn't be enforced either.. for the same example above). This guest 'float' is the gap that allows for abuse
Thinking out loud: How about using the hand stamp system, and "for insurance purposes" each DAS holder must be accompanied by at least one non-DAS guest? I don't know this answer which is why I'm asking but are there insurance rules? Surely 4 DAS cheaters couldn't just rock up in their hired ECVs and get on one boat at PotC for instance? Only one "red stamp" per ride vehicle?
Could, in theory, a DAS "family" take up a whole boat?
 
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