GAC to Become DAS

[luv]

The system was abused by people who aren't good parents and use autism as an excuse for their child's poor behavior, much as 20 years ago bad parents were saying their children had ADD/ADHD. All of those conditions really exist and are difficult to handle. But they are also used by many as an excuse for poorly behaved children.

The system was abused by people who felt that every physical problem meant they should get a card - IBS, pregnancy, diabetes, etc.

The system was also abused by people who weren't kidding anyone and knew full well that they didn't need it. They just didn't want to wait in line and picked up cards for the sole purpose of waiting in shorter lines.

Disney had their new FPP to roll out. Can't do it when the FP lines are all clogged with abusers.

Something had to be done.

I am truly sad that some people who needed the old system will not be able to visit Disney because it is gone. I am angry with people who abused the system and caused these people to have to stay away. I doubt it, but I hope their consciences serve them.

It's done now. Whether we are happy with it or not - it's done. Like it, lump it, whatever.

I kind of hate this saying, but...it is what it is. We have to live with it.

 

[luv]

Her original Youtube videos spread like wildfire through the forums and among CMs which is why everyone found out about it, and unfortunately, probably what she wanted. Again, she is "worth" watching because people like her are what could get Disney to backpedal on the new policy.

I wish everyone well. I'm not watching some goofball on YouTube because she might sue Disney. That will have to be Disney's problem and not mine. There are just too many people who consider themselves "experts" and have sites dedicated to instructing others, too many people with blogs and you tubes airing their tips and grievances. I couldn't keep up if I wanted to...but I don't want to.

I now understand and appreciate that others feel it is important and have a better understanding of why they watch. Thanks! (I mean that. If it sounds snippy, that's not how I meant it. It's sincere. )

 

[GoofGoof]

....yes ..Autism Speaks was consulted. And they were very clear to state that they didn't endorse the DAS in any way, shape or form. There is a YouTube video that shows a representative basically stating that nothing about the DAS will work ...and has an ATTITUDE that pretty much stinks ...and relays the message ..."leave it alone, we'll only like it the way it was".

I watched the video and pretty much took it that the guy was upset that people were saying autism speaks worked with Disney to design the new plan when they really didn't. It's probably a valid complaint and I think I'm guilty of saying it and may have misspoken when I said they worked with them, but I still give Disney credit for reaching out to their guests in any capacity and trying to solicit feedback on a new policy that will impact them. They didn't legally need to contact anyone, but they did anyway. Maybe it was just done for PR spin or maybe they really do care about their guests. I don't have a dog in this race so I'm not really passionate for either side.

I did go to the autism speaks website and they have not officially endorsed the new cards, but they seem open to seeing how they work:
http://www.autismspeaks.org/news/news-item/new-disney-plan-how-it-affects-our-community

 

[PhotoDave219]

I wish everyone well. I'm not watching some goofball on YouTube because she might sue Disney. That will have to be Disney's problem and not mine. There are just too many people who consider themselves "experts" and have sites dedicated to instructing others, too many people with blogs and you tubes airing their tips and grievances. I couldn't keep up if I wanted to...but I don't want to.

I now understand and appreciate that others feel it is important and have a better understanding of why they watch. Thanks! (I mean that. If it sounds snippy, that's not how I meant it. It's sincere. )

Guess its time to drop my friends at the sentinel a line on this....

 

[jaklgreen]

How are they going to decide who needs the new DAS? Is it going to be like before that anyone who asks for it gets it, or just autistic kids? Where is the line drawn? There are a lot of medical reasons why someone can not wait in line. If it is just "autistic kids" then wouldn't that be discrimination against others who have physical issues? Just wondering how they decide who gets the new DAS.

 

[luv]

Guess its time to drop my friends at the sentinel a line on this....

I'm confused. I don't know if it's Dumb Girl Syndrome or if you're making no sense.

???

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'm confused. I don't know if it's Dumb Girl Syndrome or if you're making no sense.

???

A lawsuit has been filed. Time to pass the story onto people who can bring attention to it.

 

[Gabe1]

A lawsuit has been filed. Time to pass the story onto people who can bring attention to it.

I've never needed any form of queue assistance from Disney with my given disability. But having a hearing disability and having been an elected official that deals with ADA requirements within schools I am pretty darn well versed. I'd love to hear from the Sentinel legal reporters to break down the issues with DAS vs ADA.

From armchair quarterbacking here I am not genuinely seeing Disney breaking any ADA laws. Thinking this through for several weeks now I'm starting to believe Disney is only guilty of going above and beyond ADA requirements. My take on DAS now is Disney has a high bar set for accessibility and inclusion and at first blush I believe the lawsuit will have a hard time demonstrating Disney is non compliant with accessibility and inclusion for guests. The lawsuits seems to look for Disney to go above and beyond what provisions are outlined within the law. That type of judgement would set precedent not only for themeparks everywhere but would have a trickle down precedent for any venue with queues in public and private sectors. That isn't what accessibility and inclusion laws are about.

Doubtful that Disney will be held to a higher standard than other venues are to be considered ADA compliant. My gut is leading me to lean in the direction that this lawsuit might indeed backfire. It would be easier for Disney to not allow any guests special privileges beyond accessible and inclusive and wean away from the catalyst type considerations as re-entry, extra FP's and shortened wait times across the board as they are the fuel of the lawsuit and totally unnecessary in Disney being compliant. If Disney is going to be characturized as favoring one disability over another it would best to streamline compliance and omit all the other catalyst considerations. No guests awarded unless a particular attraction was constructed not to be accessible. Sometimes humans just push so hard that it backfires.

I would welcome an objective piece from the Sentinel that brought some light to the boundaries of ADA requests. We've heard so much from the emotional side of the issue, I'd like to be enlightened from a legal perspective.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I've never needed any form of queue assistance from Disney with my given disability. But having a hearing disability and having been an elected official that deals with ADA requirements within schools I am pretty darn well versed. I'd love to hear from the Sentinel legal reporters to break down the issues with DAS vs ADA.

From armchair quarterbacking here I am not genuinely seeing Disney breaking any ADA laws. Thinking this through for several weeks now I'm starting to believe Disney is only guilty of going above and beyond ADA requirements. My take on DAS now is Disney has a high bar set for accessibility and inclusion and at first blush I believe the lawsuit will have a hard time demonstrating Disney is non compliant with accessibility and inclusion for guests. The lawsuits seems to look for Disney to go above and beyond what provisions are outlined within the law. That type of judgement would set precedent not only for themeparks everywhere but would have a trickle down precedent for any venue with queues in public and private sectors. That isn't what accessibility and inclusion laws are about.

Doubtful that Disney will be held to a higher standard than other venues are to be considered ADA compliant. My gut is leading me to lean in the direction that this lawsuit might indeed backfire. It would be easier for Disney to not allow any guests special privileges beyond accessible and inclusive and wean away from the catalyst type considerations as re-entry, extra FP's and shortened wait times across the board as they are the fuel of the lawsuit and totally unnecessary in Disney being compliant. If Disney is going to be characturized as favoring one disability over another it would best to streamline compliance and omit all the other catalyst considerations. No guests awarded unless a particular attraction was constructed not to be accessible. Sometimes humans just push so hard that it backfires.

I would welcome an objective piece from the Sentinel that brought some light to the boundaries of ADA requests. We've heard so much from the emotional side of the issue, I'd like to be enlightened from a legal perspective.

I'm with you. I'm not really sure how princess sparkle hippie here is being discriminated against by Disney continuing to provide assisted access to its attractions for guests with disabilities.

Assisted access does not mean front of the line. If your child/loved one/meal ticket cannot wait even a reduced amount, then thats not Disney's problem nor is it Disney's responsibility.

And I guarentee you, their lawyers win. They always win. They will appeal until you die.
(Seriously, do a lexis-nexis search on appeals involving TWDC)

The new system is much more equitable. Plus with the new MM+ you will be able to schedule your rides so you know when your child/loved one/meal ticket can get on that one specific attraction.

 

[unkadug]

....yes ..Autism Speaks was consulted. And they were very clear to state that they didn't endorse the DAS in any way, shape or form. There is a YouTube video that shows a representative basically stating that nothing about the DAS will work ...and has an ATTITUDE that pretty much stinks ...and relays the message ..."leave it alone, we'll only like it the way it was".

[Cold hearted]
People like this only make their case weaker.

I'm sorry, but everything will not be on a silver platter. I simply don't have sympathy for those who refuse to help themselves.

[/Cold hearted]

 

[GoofGoof]

How are they going to decide who needs the new DAS? Is it going to be like before that anyone who asks for it gets it, or just autistic kids? Where is the line drawn? There are a lot of medical reasons why someone can not wait in line. If it is just "autistic kids" then wouldn't that be discrimination against others who have physical issues? Just wondering how they decide who gets the new DAS.

It's not just for autistic kids. The only reason everyone is focusing on that particular disability is because of the lady with the lawsuit. As far as I know they are still not asking you to provide any proof or evidence of anything so anyone who asks will still get a DAS just like GAC.

 

[mr spalding]

If the attorney leading the class action lawsuit against Disney has any brains, he will argue that the disabled and GAC were tossed into the trash to make way for FP+. Or, was it just coincidence that GAC was canned at the same time FP+ was being implemented?

 

[GoofGoof]

If the attorney leading the class action lawsuit against Disney has any brains, he will argue that the disabled and GAC were tossed into the trash to make way for FP+. Or, was it just coincidence that GAC was canned at the same time FP+ was being implemented?

And the Disney lawyer brings up the change being implemented at DLR too. No FP+ at Disneyland. Case dismissed.

From the original micechat story it sounds like GAC abuse was even worse at DLR. I think its a reach to say this change is based on FP+.

 

[GoofGoof]

The reports are coming from groups like Autism Hippie because they can't accept that they contributed to getting it removed by riding attractions over and over and over. Did some CMs have the cards that didn't need them? Yes, but the fraction was minuscule compared to the number of cards given out.

I have never personally witnessed CM abuse of the system but I was basing my statement on the original Micechat article posted on page 1 of this thread and some posters here who seemed to agree that CM abuse was a big issue.

 

[mr spalding]

And the Disney lawyer brings up the change being implemented at DLR too. No FP+ at Disneyland. Case dismissed.

Didn't know that, thanks. Then what is the basis of the lawsuit, people have to wait now?

 

[willtravel]

Pretty similar. And it isn't just similar to Universal and Sea World, but rather essentially every theme park.
The reports are coming from groups like Autism Hippie because they can't accept that they contributed to getting it removed by riding attractions over and over and over. Did some CMs have the cards that didn't need them? Yes, but the fraction was minuscule compared to the number of cards given out.
Her original Youtube videos spread through the forums and among CMs which is why everyone found out about it, and unfortunately, probably what she wanted. Again, she is "worth" watching because people like her are what could get Disney to backpedal on the new policy.

Just wondering if there have been any law suits then against Sea World or Universal for there policy? Just curios.

 

[mergatroid]

I've never needed any form of queue assistance from Disney with my given disability. But having a hearing disability and having been an elected official that deals with ADA requirements within schools I am pretty darn well versed. I'd love to hear from the Sentinel legal reporters to break down the issues with DAS vs ADA.

From armchair quarterbacking here I am not genuinely seeing Disney breaking any ADA laws. Thinking this through for several weeks now I'm starting to believe Disney is only guilty of going above and beyond ADA requirements. My take on DAS now is Disney has a high bar set for accessibility and inclusion and at first blush I believe the lawsuit will have a hard time demonstrating Disney is non compliant with accessibility and inclusion for guests. The lawsuits seems to look for Disney to go above and beyond what provisions are outlined within the law. That type of judgement would set precedent not only for themeparks everywhere but would have a trickle down precedent for any venue with queues in public and private sectors. That isn't what accessibility and inclusion laws are about.

Doubtful that Disney will be held to a higher standard than other venues are to be considered ADA compliant. My gut is leading me to lean in the direction that this lawsuit might indeed backfire. It would be easier for Disney to not allow any guests special privileges beyond accessible and inclusive and wean away from the catalyst type considerations as re-entry, extra FP's and shortened wait times across the board as they are the fuel of the lawsuit and totally unnecessary in Disney being compliant. If Disney is going to be characturized as favoring one disability over another it would best to streamline compliance and omit all the other catalyst considerations. No guests awarded unless a particular attraction was constructed not to be accessible. Sometimes humans just push so hard that it backfires.

I would welcome an objective piece from the Sentinel that brought some light to the boundaries of ADA requests. We've heard so much from the emotional side of the issue, I'd like to be enlightened from a legal perspective.

Very well put. The fact that at one time Disney had a system that worked for her child but no longer appears to is very sad (like her or not it is very sad for the child) doesn't mean she's being discriminated against. They still have a system it's just unfortunately now that system has changed to benefit people with a multitude of disabilities which just happens to make things a little harder for her. Whatever Disney do somebody will complain that they're affected by it in a negative way and to me it's plain to see that Disney are still trying really hard to accomodate those with disabilities and still going beyond what they're legally obliged to do.

I have a physical disability and even though I very rarely used a GAC unless it was a day when my leg was really, really bad, I appreciated the fact Disney had a sysyem in place to help me. Now it's much more difficult for me to use that system, however that's not Disney discriminating it's them trying to be even fairer so in effect they're trying even harder to help those with disabilities and I approve of that.

If human beings were honest and didn't abuse systems then none of this would be needed, that's the real crime and not what Disney's doing. And you can take that to the bank because Mergatroid says so (in his best Stone Cold Steve Austin voice).

 

[GoofGoof]

Didn't know that, thanks. Then what is the basis of the lawsuit, people have to wait now?

IMHO there is no basis for a lawsuit. It's a problem with our society. Someone does something we don't like and we file a lawsuit. I think the whole point of the lawsuit is to draw negative attention to Disney and the new program in an attempt to get Disney to either reverse the policy and revert back to the GAC or offer some "perks" to specific people or groups of people.

 

[Gabe1]

If the attorney leading the class action lawsuit against Disney has any brains, he will argue that the disabled and GAC were tossed into the trash to make way for FP+. Or, was it just coincidence that GAC was canned at the same time FP+ was being implemented?

But it is just that, claimed but not proved. The guests lawyers have to have a burden of proof that FP+ was created to toss GAC, it is one thing to make that claim-another to prove that it was Disney's intent of FP+ made them non compliant with ADA.

Given other smaller facilities have Magic Band type systems for admission, charging expenses, door entry etc., it will be difficult to prove that claim and take the entire My Experience down claiming its FP+ systems was launched to take away GAC.

Even as I type that it just sounds ridiculous and likely how ridiculous these guests and their attorney's will look when and if the suit goes forward. I wonder if the suit will even go forward beyond the initial hearings or if it will be dismissed as being frivolous. Disney FP+ allows guests to pre-plan what attractions they can get onto quickly disability or not, that is compliant and accessibility.

 

[Gabe1]

I'm with you. I'm not really sure how princess sparkle hippie here is being discriminated against by Disney continuing to provide assisted access to its attractions for guests with disabilities.

Assisted access does not mean front of the line. If your child/loved one/meal ticket cannot wait even a reduced amount, then thats not Disney's problem nor is it Disney's responsibility.

And I guarentee you, their lawyers win. They always win. They will appeal until you die.
(Seriously, do a lexis-nexis search on appeals involving TWDC)

The new system is much more equitable. Plus with the new MM+ you will be able to schedule your rides so you know when your child/loved one/meal ticket can get on that one specific attraction.

They only lawsuits I've seen in recent times involving ADA complacency were for hearing and sight guests. I believe that was also out of Cali that is friendlier to lawsuits than Florida. It was easier for Disney to say sure we will do that, as it didn't impact their operation system for guests as a whole. There was better signage and maps provided, some upgrades in tech for the hearing impaired and guests with service dogs, animals received more accessible facilities and holding areas.