Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

[lazyboy97o]

I think "popular" product is what they're aiming for though, that tends to maintain itself. WDW isn't about art it's about commerce, and quality products like Horizons that are popular get torn down

"Quality will out."

 

[MonorailLover]

Right now the biggest thing that Universal is willing to leverage is a willingness to build attractions tied to intellectual properties quicker than Disney. I don't know if it's an inability to do this on Disney's part or if it's the mindset that every attraction tied to an intellectual property has to be a classic. Regardless, it's giving Universal easily marketable attractions that quickly boost attendance. There are those that will argue that all of these things are flash in the pan type attractions, but that remains to be seen. Moreover, they're not putting out half a$$ed attractions tied to this IP, they're putting out attractions that are deeply rooted in the IP, but are also of a high caliber.

Like many on here, I have no problem with intellectual property being used in Disney parks. I wish it would be confined to certain areas, but that ship has already sailed. So with that said, if Disney builds a fantastic Frozen attraction and it happens to be in Norway, I would very likely be ok with it. Yes, my preference would be Fantasyland, but a quality attraction will supersede it's placement in Walt Disney World.

Agreed about NFL placement, as I said before, new fantasyland phase 2!!!

I think though that even with universals new attractions that are increasing attendance still aren't going to trump disney.... I think even if disney parks turned to crap(which they are currently doing a good job in my mind to keep them great, not crap) people would still go, and still have more than double the attendance than universal ever will.

unless universal unveils some new magic potion that makes you hate disney, and to go to their parks, the crowds will still go to disney.

 

[Prototype82]

If Frozen takes the place of Maelstrom, it's the last nail in the coffin for EPCOT's originality. People, we're not mad about this because Maelstrom was a perfect ride. We're disappointed because we should be getting innovative and reimagined World Showcase attractions that don't include characters. The place is becoming Magic Kingdom and people don't seem to care or understand that.

 

[Matt_Black]

They've had success adding characters. If you're having success, why shouldn't they keep doing it?

 

[Disneymaniacus]

Kids nowadays don't want museum like attractions or exhibits and by adding Disney Characters (Nemo, The Three Callebros) it's more intresting for kids. They enjoy it more, so if Frozen in any way possible helps to get kids more excited about a country like Norway that I believe it's a good idea.

 

[Bocabear]

Kids nowadays don't want museum like attractions or exhibits and by adding Disney Characters (Nemo, The Three Callebros) it's more intresting for kids. They enjoy it more, so if Frozen in any way possible helps to get kids more excited about a country like Norway that I believe it's a good idea.

Always play down to the lowest common denominator... a sad way to operate but it is widely accepted now... Don't reach for the stars or dare to dream... it's too difficult...make it easy for everyone to understand at face value... God forbid anyone *think about an attraction as they walk away....

 

[Matt_Black]

Mr. Rogers taught kids with cute little hand puppet characters- was he talking down to them? Sesame Street taught kids with cute characters- did they play to the lowest common denominator?

Kids want to learn, but you've got to present the learning in a way that captures and excites their imagination. If the characters are used in a way that helps the learning stick, then I have absolutely no problem with it.

 

[Bocabear]

Yes of course by nature, pre-school television plays to pre-school age children... EPCOT's audience is a wider cross section of humanity than that. The Magic Kingdom's focus was always about characters... EPCOT tends to be a little more mature...a mix of both. Though I will say I am not a defender of the Norway Pavilion, I don't believe that every national pavilion in EPCOT needs to be built around Disney characters and films...

 

[TalkingHead]

Kids want to learn, but you've got to present the learning in a way that captures and excites their imagination. If the characters are used in a way that helps the learning stick, then I have absolutely no problem with it.

Yeah, but what are the characters teaching in Gran Fiesta Tour, or the Nemo Omnimover? "Where is Donald?! Where is Nemo?!"

Not much learning. Just characters for the sake of characters.

Of course, that'd be forgivable if the attractions were any good. But they aren't. So you're stuck with fairly underwhelming rides stocked with characters because that's what the tots like to see.

Pass.

 

[Tim Lohr]

"Quality will out."

That kind of a vague response

 

[CDavid]

Kids nowadays don't want museum like attractions or exhibits and by adding Disney Characters (Nemo, The Three Callebros) it's more intresting for kids. They enjoy it more, so if Frozen in any way possible helps to get kids more excited about a country like Norway that I believe it's a good idea.

If you had asked anyone in 1982 - anyone, but especially children - if they would like attractions based on communications, agriculture, and energy the answer would have been a resounding NO. People, again including kids, can and do like museums, but not so much in a theme park. Of course, the original Epcot attractions were in no shape or form museums, and despite the academic subject matter, the park was a success. Again, including among the children. Each generation has technology the previous lacked, but if young people could be entertained without characters in 1982, they aren't necessary in 2014 either.

The use of fictional characters (primarily animated) in attractions is generally just the quick, lazy, and unimaginative way of raising interest, as opposed to actually creating something compelling in itself. Adding characters may be the "safe" answer, but classic attractions are seldom created by playing it safe.

 

[doctornick]

Wonders of life will get its second coming so long as Pixar's inside out is a success. Sadly that's the only way I see them bringing that pavilion back.

I was thinking about WoL the other day and wodnered this: I know that the hardware from Body Wars has been gutted (either for replacements for Star Tours or to use for the Iron Man ride in Hong Kong). But IIRC the physical space for the ride isn't used as part of the festival center....

Is there any way they could replace Body Wars with a similar simulator type ride in that space -- with pretty much any theme, but ideally something that fits "Future World". Maybe combine that with redirecting the queue so that you could enter it from the outside of the building and not have to enter the WoL pavillion (don't know the blueprints of the pavillion well enough to know if this is feasible).

I'm just thinking that you could keep WoL being used as a festival center, but still find a way to add a relatively inexpensive ride to Epcot to help with capacity and the FP+ tiering issue.

 

[Magenta Panther]

They wouldn't do that. Muppets have gotten popular again, so there's no way they would get rid of an already existing attraction based on them.

"Popular"? Not really. They don't sell much merchandise, not even with that movie that came out a couple of years ago.

 

[aladdin2007]

Yeah, but what are the characters teaching in Gran Fiesta Tour, or the Nemo Omnimover? "Where is Donald?! Where is Nemo?!"

Not much learning. Just characters for the sake of characters.

Of course, that'd be forgivable if the attractions were any good. But they aren't. So you're stuck with fairly underwhelming rides stocked with characters because that's what the tots like to see.

Pass.

This.

 

[WelshBatman]

I was thinking about WoL the other day and wodnered this: I know that the hardware from Body Wars has been gutted (either for replacements for Star Tours or to use for the Iron Man ride in Hong Kong). But IIRC the physical space for the ride isn't used as part of the festival center....
Is there any way they could replace Body Wars with a similar simulator type ride in that space -- with pretty much any theme, but ideally something that fits "Future World". Maybe combine that with redirecting the queue so that you could enter it from the outside of the building and not have to enter the WoL pavillion (don't know the blueprints of the pavillion well enough to know if this is feasible).
I'm just thinking that you could keep WoL being used as a festival center, but still find a way to add a relatively inexpensive ride to Epcot to help with capacity and the FP+ tiering issue.

Why couldn't they theme the pavilion to weather and use the ride space for Stormrider? Granted they'd have to resize the original ride but the premise could remain the same and open up the floor of the pavilion for weather related exhibits and whatnot.

 

[Bocabear]

Get General Electric, the first sponsor of Horizons to host a new pavilion in that space...Eco-Magination...
it could work...
The weather pavilion could be a fascinating idea too...with image mapping projectrs constantly changing the weather inside the dome... That's a great idea...

 

[doctornick]

I'm with you, it's a fun ride, but I like it more for the innovative drops and layout than for the "story".

I love Maelstrom and would hate to see it go. I remember my friends and I re-riding it over and over during my senior class trip in the early 90's.

I would agree that the "story" is limited. The ride is too brief to really be that immersive. It's basically a loose connection of scenes related to Norway and would be a better experience if it were 3 times the length and had better transitions between scenes. That said, I terribly enjoy the ride is because the content is IMHO great and comprehensive for a cultural experience -- mythology/folklore (Odin, trolls), history (Vikings, seafaring), nature (Polar bears), and industry (oil rigs) with disembarking in a quaint village. I just love how they used all those elments to give you a taste and appreciate for Norway in a way that is fun & lightheared. As I have said before, I think the concepts of the ride would be a great basis for cultural rides in other Epcot countries.

 

[doctornick]

Kids nowadays don't want museum like attractions or exhibits and by adding Disney Characters (Nemo, The Three Callebros) it's more intresting for kids. They enjoy it more, so if Frozen in any way possible helps to get kids more excited about a country like Norway that I believe it's a good idea.

The thing is though that the two points don't have to follow. I would agree that having overly educational rides that lecture to you isn't going to fly. But that doesn't mean you have to use established toons to make a ride "fun". The original ride concept for Maelstrom was going to be all about encountering and fighting trolls -- wouldn't that be interesting to a child? Wouldn't a ride in Italy where you encounter Roman gods be engaging? How about a ride about Stonehenge and encountering druids in England? Or the oft mentioned idea of a bullet train ride in Japan where you encounter Godzilla (yeah, he's an IP, but he's almost more a cultural icon at this point given the long history). There was plans for a Swiss pavillion with a Matterhorn type ride. People often suggest a Greek pavillion with a Greek mythology theme or an Egypt one with a Egyptian dieties? Or something like the Sinbad the Sailor ride from TDS being added to Moracco?

These are all just ideas that are based on more "cultural" ideas that could be just as engaging and fun to children. You don't have to tie something to a specific IP or cartoon to make it exciting. And if it introduces people to some aspect of a foreign culture they may not have know about (or know little about), all the better.

Yeah, but what are the characters teaching in Gran Fiesta Tour, or the Nemo Omnimover? "Where is Donald?! Where is Nemo?!"

Not much learning. Just characters for the sake of characters.

Agree with this. I think you could effectively use toons in rides in Epcot, but the execution has been bad. I personally think the addition of Nemo and friends -- real fish who live in the real world -- makes sense for the Seas, but it should have been set up as Nemo and Crush and Mr. Ray, etc guiding us humans about living under the sea and marine life; not just a rehash of the movie. It's a missed opportunity.

 

[doctornick]

Why couldn't they theme the pavilion to weather and use the ride space for Stormrider? Granted they'd have to resize the original ride but the premise could remain the same and open up the floor of the pavilion for weather related exhibits and whatnot.

Get General Electric, the first sponsor of Horizons to host a new pavilion in that space...Eco-Magination...
it could work...
The weather pavilion could be a fascinating idea too...with image mapping projectrs constantly changing the weather inside the dome... That's a great idea...

I had forgotten about Storm Riders, which would be a great option. I don't think a revamping of the pavillion is going to happen, though, and I'm not suggesting that. The reality is that using it a festival center works better for what Disney is doing with Epcot now and they have no interest in letting that go. Not what I want, but it's the reality.

But just because the dome of WoL houses seminars and cooking shows doesn't mean that the Body Wars show building should just sit there to rot. I could be wrong, but it literally is not used at all. I'm just suggesting that putting an actual ride in that space -- which might be able to be done in a way to allow the festival pavillion to continue being used as is -- increases the rides in the park relatively cheaply. Even if it is just a ride and not a while "weather pavillion", it would be a welcome addition.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That kind of a vague response

What more is there to say? You and some others will just continue to deny the artistry that made the Disney Difference. You're denying the importance of theme at a theme park.