Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

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jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
cw1982 said:
But like many have already pointed out, kids have been enjoying Epcot for decades without any of your suggestions. No one is suggesting we should teach calculus in first grade, but that's a far cry from not changing WS just because you think it's too educational.

With that, I'm going to make this my last post on the subject as per @wdwmagic's request. If you care enough to keep this going, start your own thread instead of sprinkling your ideas on everyone else's threads in hopes of getting the reactions you're looking for. I won't see it either way. Take care.
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Please read post 3293.
 
wdisney9000

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
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jt04 said:
There are exceptions to every rule. But seriously, what percentage of guests under ten have any idea why the ride vehicle passes under an oil platform in Norway or even why trolls appear. However, Frozen can be be related to by the masses. Leave edutainment to other media, WDW should be a bit more entertainment oriented.
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I can tell you what percentage of kids under ten dont know. The same percentage whose parents dont ASK their children questions about it or discuss the ride with them? Ive helped my nephews (under 10) learn countless things in WS by simply asking them about it. Its all in the approach, Jt, but your too concerned with seeing cartoon characters. EPCOT has such a unique approach to education and it sets up a parent beautifully to be able to TALK to their kids, ASK them questions, discuss real things. But EPCOT cant do all the work, it takes just a little tiny bit of effort on the parents behalf.

If POTC were in WS would you want them to remake it with only Captain Hook and pirate Goofy, because, as you say, the masses could relate to them more than a bunch of random pirates, right? They should remove the ghosts and put Eddie Murphy and Sleepy Hollow characters in Haunted Mansion. Soarin should be turned into a "Planes" the movie attraction, right?

The last line of your quote is the most sad thing you have written today. Why must "education" and "entertainment" be separate for you...or the masses? In the wise words of Yoda, "that is why you fail"
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
wdisney9000 said:
[COUNTDOWN=][/COUNTDOWN]


I can tell you what percentage of kids under ten dont know. The same percentage whose parents dont ASK their children questions about it or discuss the ride with them? Ive helped my nephews (under 10) learn countless things in WS by simply asking them about it. Its all in the approach, Jt, but your too concerned with seeing cartoon characters. EPCOT has such a unique approach to education and it sets up a parent beautifully to be able to TALK to their kids, ASK them questions, discuss real things. But EPCOT cant do all the work, it takes just a little tiny bit of effort on the parents behalf.

If POTC were in WS would you want them to remake it with only Captain Hook and pirate Goofy, because, as you say, the masses could relate to them more than a bunch of random pirates, right? They should remove the ghosts and put Eddie Murphy and Sleepy Hollow characters in Haunted Mansion. Soarin should be turned into a "Planes" the movie attraction, right?

The last line of your quote is the most sad thing you have written today. Why must "education" and "entertainment" be separate for you...or the masses? In the wise words of Yoda, "that is why you fail"
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Actually, that doesn't sound too bad. The Headless Horseman would be a pretty cool addition to the Graveyard scene IMO (no other characters from the movie though). Of coarse a full out ride elsewhere in Liberty Square would be much better than sticking him in Haunted Mansion.
 
wdisney9000

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
jt04 said:
Edutainment has become a bit passse in a theme park setting. Perhaps the emphasis should be put back on inspiration and patriotism. Good old fashion love of country. We seem to have forgotten that largely. Which explains so much I might add.
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You preach inspiration and patriotism but ignore educational values? One does not exist without the other, but then again, you wish everything was fantasy land.
 
D

dadddio

Well-Known Member
cw1982 said:
And this right here is the most telling thing you have said in days.

As a teacher, I'm very disturbed that you're actually coming out and saying that entertainment should completely bypass edutainment, as you called it. News flash. Kids learn best when they're intrugued. That doesn't always happen when they're seeing the same characters they already know. More often the things that make them curious and want to learn more are the things they know so little about. If the pavilions become all about entertainment, children everywhere have lost a great opportunity to learn something in a meaningful way that is more likely to stick with them.

I would want my children to have fun at Epcot, but having fun doesn't have to mean not learning.
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I'm actually a fan of edutainment, but I also want rides that are fun enough to ride over and over.
 
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dadddio

Well-Known Member
wdisney9000 said:
You just described what Epcot and MK/HS are meant to provide. Do you want all the parks to be exactly the same?
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Did I say that? Your reply doesn't seem to be connected to my post in any way. Did you reply to the wrong post?

Do you prefer one-and-done rides?
 
wdisney9000

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
dadddio said:
Did I say that? Your reply doesn't seem to be connected to my post in any way. Did you reply to the wrong post?

Do you prefer one-and-done rides?
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Of course not, and I get what your saying that it would be great if a ride that was "edutainment" based was also fun to ride over and over. Test Track would be a good example. It doesnt use characters or a movie AND its somewhat educational (used to be more educational before the remodel) and it never gets old. It is more based on thrill with a small dose of education. You NEED the opposite of that in a different attraction in order for TT to be a thrill every time. You would get bored of it much more quickly if EVERY ride had thrills like that, it would loose that aspect and just be normal when compared to every other ride. If you ride something like Living with the Land it gives you the opposite side of the spectrum. Its slow, forces you to look around more, you must listen and yes, you learn a little bit more. You appreciate one because of the other. Christmas is so fun because it comes once a year, if everyday were Christmas, it would get boring

Maelstrom is far from perfect execution and if they change it up a bit to make it more fun AND a bit more educational, its a win-win. If they just throw Frozen in there because (as Jt puts it) the masses can relate to it more, its a loss, imo. It would do a disservice to both Norway and Frozen if they tried to use the movie as a means to educate people about the country of Norway. Would Frozen be a fun water ride? Of course, but they can build that anywhere and NOT have to toon up WS. WDW (EPCOT inlcuded) became the biggest tourist destination on the planet because of how they were designed and the original idea behind them. It was something the masses were had never thought of, not something they were demanding or related to, it was completely new to everybody. The more they stray further and further away from the original concepts, the more they chip away at its uniqueness. Im not saying turn the parks into a museum either, but stick with the original plan that was dreamed up by a man much more imaginative than anybody in charge today. They need to realize that they (the execs) do NOT have the vision or ability to know what would be a hit compared to how Walt did (with the help of his crew). He was a visionary, not an accountant, he did not think in terms of saving money, he thought in terms of making it by spending it...and it worked
 
D

dadddio

Well-Known Member
wdisney9000 said:
Of course not, and I get what your saying that it would be great if a ride that was "edutainment" based was also fun to ride over and over. Test Track would be a good example. It doesnt use characters or a movie AND its somewhat educational (used to be more educational before the remodel) and it never gets old. It is more based on thrill with a small dose of education. You NEED the opposite of that in a different attraction in order for TT to be a thrill every time. You would get bored of it much more quickly if EVERY ride had thrills like that, it would loose that aspect and just be normal when compared to every other ride. If you ride something like Living with the Land it gives you the opposite side of the spectrum. Its slow, forces you to look around more, you must listen and yes, you learn a little bit more. You appreciate one because of the other. Christmas is so fun because it comes once a year, if everyday were Christmas, it would get boring
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I pretty much agree with you, except for your argument that every ride shouldn't be a ride that you would want to do over and over again. Rather, I believe that they should try to hit it out of the park on every single one.
wdisney9000 said:
Maelstrom is far from perfect execution and if they change it up a bit to make it more fun AND a bit more educational, its a win-win. If they just throw Frozen in there because (as Jt puts it) the masses can relate to it more, its a loss, imo. It would do a disservice to both Norway and Frozen if they tried to use the movie as a means to educate people about the country of Norway.
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Here, you've lost me. How would using characters to educate automatically do the characters and Norway a disservice? While I certainly agree that doing a bad job does everyone a disservice, but doing a good job wouldn't seem to.
wdisney9000 said:
Would Frozen be a fun water ride? Of course, but they can build that anywhere and NOT have to toon up WS. WDW (EPCOT inlcuded) became the biggest tourist destination on the planet because of how they were designed and the original idea behind them. It was something the masses were had never thought of, not something they were demanding or related to, it was completely new to everybody. The more they stray further and further away from the original concepts, the more they chip away at its uniqueness. Im not saying turn the parks into a museum either, but stick with the original plan that was dreamed up by a man much more imaginative than anybody in charge today. They need to realize that they (the execs) do NOT have the vision or ability to know what would be a hit compared to how Walt did (with the help of his crew). He was a visionary, not an accountant, he did not think in terms of saving money, he thought in terms of making it by spending it...and it worked
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I'm not really sure where you are going with this. You seem to be saying that the guys in charge aren't Walt so they shouldn't be messing with things, even though Walt had nothing to do with anything about Epcot (other than the name). While it's certainly true that some leadership through the years have made questional decisions (although some of these 'bad' decisions were necessary at the time), that doesn't mean that we shouldnt be expecting them (nee requiring them) to shake things up sometimes and not simply sticking to 'the way we always do it'.
 
Gomer

Gomer

Well-Known Member
The longer we sit here without confirmation, the more hope I get that this was thought better of and shelved in favor of more substantial Frozen additions elsewhere. Perhaps the news stories out of Norway and the fan backlash combined with the success of the Frozen event in DHS have made them give it a second thought? Maybe?

I'm feeling naively optimistic today apparently.
 
cw1982

cw1982

Well-Known Member
Jose said:
any official word? is this still a strong rumor?
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Unfortunately, I wouldn't call it a rumor... more and more evidence is supporting this one. The CM in the news clip from Norway said that they had already been told specific months that the attraction would be down for refurbishment and that 70% of the gift shop space was already gone thanks to Frozen (iirc, for a meet and greet, but still...). Add the fact that the church is currently set up to look like a shrine to the movie, and the overlay seems eminent.

Technically, I guess Norway could come back in quickly and make a deal. But it doesn't sound like Disney has any anticipation of that happening.
 
schuelma

schuelma

Well-Known Member
Gomer said:
The longer we sit here without confirmation, the more hope I get that this was thought better of and shelved in favor of more substantial Frozen additions elsewhere. Perhaps the news stories out of Norway and the fan backlash combined with the success of the Frozen event in DHS have made them give it a second thought? Maybe?

I'm feeling naively optimistic today apparently.
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I too dare to dream. A small part of me can see the execs walking around DHS and saying "wow, look what a temporary hastily put together Frozen event has done for this park. I bet a permanent addition could do wonders!".

Ok I am awake now.
 
Gomer

Gomer

Well-Known Member
schuelma said:
I too dare to dream. A small part of me can see the execs walking around DHS and saying "wow, look what a temporary hastily put together Frozen event has done for this park. I bet a permanent addition could do wonders!".

Ok I am awake now.
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Heck, I'd even take, hey look at what this hastily put together Frozen event has done. Why not just stop here, since its working.
 
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