Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

[aladdin2007]

I was more concerned about show and theme. Things that used to matter.

Epcot needs far more than a cheap, misplaced overlay.

Agree, Epcot always keeps getting the cheap end of the stick, except for when they spent money to add Soarin I guess.

 

[dadddio]

Rumored change? Most of the change has already begun. The Stave Church is a Frozen exhibit. Akershus is a Princess restaurant. A portion of the shop that sold Norwegian themed merchandise was transformed into a M&G for Anna & Elsa. The ride itself will be the last piece of the puzzle.

You are honestly making the argument that having princess dining in Akershus is part of bringing Frozen into the Norway pavilion? Does it matter that Akershus has been character dining since before Frozen was released?

The stave church exhibit is widely believed to be well done and respectful to Norway.

The store that was reduced in size was very large. Reducing it in size didn't remove their ability to sell overpriced sweaters.

 

[dadddio]

That is true, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the #2 most liked park in Orlando. Plenty of people will come to check it out to make it #2 visited, but it may also create some disapointed guests with not only how the ride probably will be, but also 50% of the rest of Epcot

Sort of like the people who ride Maelstrom and come off less than impressed?

 

[dadddio]

And you know the actual plans? The issue is what is considered to be of a culture far more than aesthetics and execution.


People who actually go abroad would realize that the attitude of "whatever we say you are, you are" is not much appreciated, especially when it comes from Americans.

Not surprisingly, I got a lazy reply from lazyboy.

You keep arguing against your presumptions of what the plans are as if they are reality.

 

[DinoInstitute]

Sort of like the people who ride Maelstrom and come off less than impressed?

I suppose so, sure

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not surprisingly, I got a lazy reply from lazyboy.

You keep arguing against your presumptions of what the plans are as if they are reality.

Why does the presumption matter? The issue has nothing to do with execution. It doesn't matter if the unquestionably greatest attraction ever is built because it still would be about an American film. There is no indication of love even for the idea of using the characters as a weenie to discuss the country.

Even if the rumor is totally unfounded, it illustrates a perception regarding Disney and how it treats World Showcase. The Norway Pavilion has not been treated well and there are no signs of interest beyond American pretend sort of Norway.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Since you are begging for someone to respond. Here it is: I think that it is likely that the one news story that you dug up isn't necessarily representative of how everyone in Norway feels on this issue. I would bet that far and away, most Norwegians are not aware of the issue, at all. Further, I bet that most Norwegians are not even aware that there is a Norwegian pavilion in Epcot. Finally, I bet that if someone impartially explained the issue to them, that most Norwegians would not care one way or the other and that the remainder would fall on either side of the issue. Some would like it. Some would hate it.

Sure. But in the grand scheme of things one country's pavilion at a 'permanent world's fair theme park' slash drinkfest is of little importance to a vast majority of people.

I think that when presented with the question 'Frost i norske paviljongen - ja eller nei?', most Norwegians would answer "whatever creates most tourist dollars and now let me finish my $28 beer because I've got only eight more weeks of paid summer holiday left". Incidentally, personally, I'd wager a fair amount that Frozen creates more of those US tourist dollars than a culturally correct pavilion.

And then there are more educated Norwegians who care more about culture, cultural exchange, and presentation of national identity. And even more educated Norwegians who couldn't care less for anything having to do with a theme park, least of all a Disney theme park - those harbingers of US cultural impoverishment - precisely because of, again, cultural considerations. And konservative Norwegians who care more about national pride and consider it an insult to replace national cultural mainstays such as trolls and vikings by a foreign cartoon of mixed US and - far worse! - Danish origin.


The Norwegians interviewed in the news item are those directly concerned. Well they would be. And if you are a Norwegian CM you likely don't want to work in a Frozen pavilion. That would render you a circus clown, a blond curiosity on display in a cartoonish mockery of Norway. Likewise the other Norwegians involved with the pavilion, from sponsors to the chamber of commerce, those who want to present Norway for cultural or business purposes, actual Norway, resent the destruction of Norway for Frozen. They consider whether they can and should pay Disney not to destroy the Norway pavilion. I don't know if Disney really demands nine million to preserve the pavilion. Or if Disney merely uses the threat of Frozen to force Norwegians into paying that. Or if all of that is Norwegians scaremongering themselves. Either way, the grief and resentment over it seems prevalent amongst most Norwegians directly involved.

 

[aladdin2007]

Sure. But in the grand scheme of things one country's pavilion at a 'permanent world's fair theme park' slash drinkfest is of little importance to a vast majority of people.

I think that when presented with the question 'Frost i norske paviljongen - ja eller nei?', most Norwegians would answer "whatever creates most tourist dollars and now let me finish my $28 beer because I've got only eight more weeks of paid summer holiday left". Incidentally, personally, I'd wager a fair amount that Frozen creates more of those US tourist dollars than a culturally correct pavilion.

And then there are more educated Norwegians who care more about culture, cultural exchange, and presentation of national identity. And even more educated Norwegians who couldn't care less for anything having to do with a theme park, least of all a Disney theme park - those harbingers of US cultural impoverishment - precisely because of, again, cultural considerations. And konservative Norwegians who care more about national pride and consider it an insult to replace national cultural mainstays such as trolls and vikings by a foreign cartoon of mixed US and - far worse! - Danish origin.


The Norwegians interviewed in the news item are those directly concerned. Well they would be. And if you are a Norwegian CM you likely don't want to work in a Frozen pavilion. That would render you a circus clown, a blond curiosity on display in a cartoonish mockery of Norway. Likewise the other Norwegians involved with the pavilion, from sponsors to the chamber of commerce, those who want to present Norway for cultural or business purposes, actual Norway, resent the destruction of Norway for Frozen. They consider whether they can and should pay Disney not to destroy the Norway pavilion. I don't know if Disney really demands nine million to preserve the pavilion. Or if Disney merely uses the threat of Frozen to force Norwegians into paying that. Or if all of that is Norwegians scaremongering themselves. Either way, the grief and resentment over it seems prevalent amongst most Norwegians directly involved.

I think you explained it really well there, Im in the above camp. The Norwegian people seem to really do care, but the government has not shown interest again. Theres also the issue of dialogue between Disney and Norway, which has been essentially closed, since the last time it didn't go so well at all. The fact that Disney turned down a free new movie provided to them as part of a new deal says alot. Yet the Norwegian government couldn't see paying the staggering amount Disney required (20 million NOK) for funding, and to Imagineering just for the research alone to see how the pavilion should be updated. This was a couple years ago...now comes along Frozen and here we are.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I highly doubt there is a law in place that dictates only the government can sponsor the Norway Pavilion. Nothing stops Disney from pursuing private sponsorship instead of government sponsorship, just like was done with most of the World Showcase pavilion. But that would require Disney to actively engage with Norwegians to develop concepts that are not "Disney."

 

[The Empress Lilly]

The Magic Kingdom doesn't need the attendance bump that a Frozen ride will bring. Frozen will help cement Epcot has the #2 most attended theme park in Orlando.

Well I would say that whatever EPCOT gains in attendance with a Frozen ride it loses in appeal owing to diminished purpose, sense and that pesky 'theme' in theme park, but that is likely untrue because no amount of unhinged drink locales and mediocre thrill rides has seemed to lower EPCOT's popularity. If only because it still manages to tap ever new markets of undiscerning customers.

Attendance at DAK would also go up if you replace Kilimajaro Safari with a Snow Sleigh Ride Through Frozen Wonderland. That doesn't mean you should do it. Despite - yes, here it comes! - fans arguing that because much of Frozen is, like, outdoors and there is a reindeer and stuff it fits Harambe's theme, which also has animals, outdoors.

 

[aladdin2007]

Well I would say that whatever EPCOT gains in attendance with a Frozen ride it loses in appeal owing to diminished purpose, sense and that pesky 'theme' in theme park, but that is likely untrue because no amount of unhinged drink locales and mediocre thrill rides has seemed to lower EPCOT's popularity. If only because it still manages to tap ever new markets of undiscerning customers.

Attendance at DAK would also go up if you replace Kilimajaro Safari with a Snow Sleigh Ride Through Frozen Wonderland. That doesn't mean you should do it. Despite - yes, here it comes! - fans arguing that because much of Frozen is, like, outdoors and there is a reindeer and stuff it fits Harambe's theme, which also has animals, outdoors.

hey dont give them ideas lol

 

[cw1982]

The stave church exhibit is widely believed to be well done and respectful to Norway.

The store that was reduced in size was very large. Reducing it in size didn't remove their ability to sell overpriced sweaters.

That's my point. The church was done originally in a way that was respectful to Norway. Not so much now because the Frozen references detract from the original appearance. True story: I just asked my dh, who has no background in this discussion, if he remembered much about the church at Norway from our trip. He asked me what church and said he didn't remember a church at all, and I even have a picture of him in front of it! When I showed him the picture, he said, "oh, you mean the place that is a shrine to the birthplace of Frozen? That wasn't a church." My husband is a very detail oriented kind of guy, so the fact that he didn't realize that was a church because of all the attention going to the movie is very telling for me. I wonder how many other people who are visiting WS for the first time miss the fact that the church was not intended to be a place dedicated to Frozen.

As far as the shop goes, none of the other cultures have to give up shop space for meet and greets. Why should Norway's merchandise be any less important? IIRC, the CM said they lost something like 70 percent of their retail space. That's hardly "plenty" of room to sell merchandise. The place wasn't that big to begin with.

Edited for grammar.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well I would say that whatever EPCOT gains in attendance with a Frozen ride it loses in appeal owing to diminished purpose, sense and that pesky 'theme' in theme park, but that is likely untrue because no amount of unhinged drink locales and mediocre thrill rides has seemed to lower EPCOT's popularity. If only because it still manages to tap ever new markets of undiscerning customers.

Attendance at DAK would also go up if you replace Kilimajaro Safari with a Snow Sleigh Ride Through Frozen Wonderland. That doesn't mean you should do it. Despite - yes, here it comes! - fans arguing that because much of Frozen is, like, outdoors and there is a reindeer and stuff it fits Harambe's theme, which also has animals, outdoors.

Actually, Epcot has failed to meet boring, irrelevant, out-of-touch EPCOT Center's peak attendance. Of course, the attendance and revenue argument also means that Transformers: Age of Extinction is a work of fine art.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Frozen does not belong in World Showcase.

If only they had some tents taking up space somewhere that they could remove to give it the treatment it deserves....

Of course that would mean spending real money on a new attraction.

Problem with that is it clashes so hard with Dumbo (and you know they aren't going to move that damn thing again).

I feel Frozen would be better served in a theme park to create an immersive, Arendelle themed land at DHS (where backlot is... i'd put a wreck-it ralph Suger Rush ride close by). And if they are going to do a frozen ride right, it HAS to be trackless. No questions asked, there's never been another IP more suited to the tech than this one.

 

[novawildcat18]

Problem with that is it clashes so hard with Dumbo (and you know they aren't going to move that damn thing again).

I feel Frozen would be better served in a theme park to create an immersive, Arrendele themed land at DHS (when backlot is... i'd put a wreck-it ralph Suger Rush ride close by). And if they are going to do a frozen ride right, it HAS to be trackless. No questions asked, there's never been another IP more suited to the tech than this one.

And why is that?

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I get it. Ice and gliding and what not.

 

[Kman101]

I don't understand the interest in having Frozen-land at DHS. It would stick out like a sore thumb. It belongs in Fantasyland. Maybe if DHS had actual themed lands once you get past Hollywood Blvd. and Sunset Blvd. but I can't imagine walking into that park and seeing the ice castle. No. Just no. That to me is just sticking it somewhere to stick it somewhere.

And I want Star Wars land as much as anybody but I really don't love the idea of it taking over the Echo Lake area (if that happens to turn out to be true ... just a rumor as far as I know). I'd rather it be more out of the way.

 

[DocMcHulk]

Any real updates on the overlay/refurb/replacement? It seems like the rumors came in fast and heavy for a while, then they died off quickly. Haven't heard much in weeks.

 

[Bocabear]

I don't understand the interest in having Frozen-land at DHS. It would stick out like a sore thumb. It belongs in Fantasyland. Maybe if DHS had actual themed lands once you get past Hollywood Blvd. and Sunset Blvd. but I can't imagine walking into that park and seeing the ice castle. No. Just no. That to me is just sticking it somewhere to stick it somewhere.

And I want Star Wars land as much as anybody but I really don't love the idea of it taking over the Echo Lake area (if that happens to turn out to be true ... just a rumor as far as I know). I'd rather it be more out of the way.

I agree with this... The Pixar Studios area can work for Pixar stuff, but Disney Studios cartoon Fairytale Princesses belong in Fantasyland... There is room to do it, though I suspect with the last expansion of Fantasyland we will not see any more capital investment after the hub expansion for a while...

 

[wdisney9000]

What if they just dont build anything at all? I wouldn't be upset if they just ended the DHS offerings in fall and we didn't hear about Frozen again. If it meant that money intended for Frozen went into another project I would be OK with that.

I haven't even finished the movie. I've watched 20 minute sections here and there and have about 10 minutes left and I'm in no rush. I enjoyed Tangled more than Frozen. I've even watched Mr Banks twice already before I've finished frozen. What bothered me was when the two sisters would be talking to each other but singing.

Compared to a movie like Aladdin that has MANY awesome songs it just isn't that great of a movie. It may just be popular for the same reasons like FLE. People were so desperate for something half quality from Disney that they clung to it and now hold it up high as some of example of quality

 

[Kman101]

I very much prefer Princess & The Frog and Tangled over Frozen.