Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

[Crazy Harry]

I think there's a reason why Magic Kingdom is the #1 theme park in the world: awesome attractions and beloved characters. It's what people think of when they think Disney. People can argue all they want that "that's not the vision of EPCOT" or "AK is not for cartoons" but guess what: Disney is cartoons. They are synonomous. Yes, is Disney more than just cartoons: absolutely. But to many adults and their kids, when they think Disney, they think beloved characters. Personally, I say bring it on to Frozen in Norway, Ratatouille in France, etc. Bring some new life to a stale park. And I know someone will respond and say something like "you clearly don't understand Walt's vision" or something about watering down the parks' purpose. Here's an idea: maybe the idea of EPCOT is changing. Maybe 20 years ago it worked and maybe now people want something different out of the experience. If in 30 years all of the parks looked more like Magic Kingdom (because not every animated character can fit into Fantasyland) I say bring it. What a great park to emulate...

Your statement on why Disney is popular was very true, but your argument seems to miss the point. The parks are beginning to lose balance, and unnessisarily so.

When you ask non-fanatics what there favorite Disney rides are, chances are the most common answers will be attractions without specific character affiliations i.e. Pirates, Splash Mt, Space Mt. etc. These are iconic Disney attractions without characters. They are already recognizable, and that is the problem. Disney execs lack the courage to really create unique experiences anymore and rely more on recognizable properties. Its all about marketability and making money.

Now lets be honest, making money is the point, but you can still make money with a more traditional approach. Characters certainly have a place in the parks, but not at the expense of balance and theming. Inundating world showcase with characters does a disservice to the rich cultures represented, minimizing their importance. It's borderline insulting. Imagine visiting a foreign park with their own world showcase, and the America themed area had Mickey Mouse and a Hunger Games attraction with colonial style facades. It would do a deep disservice to our history and culture, but would certainly seem to fit Disney's current model. And the pavillion would likely be very popular, so who can argue with that?

 

[Yankee Mouse]

Experienced it yesterday. It really needs to go, or be amped up, because the resounding agreement in our boat was 'What just happened?'. It's confusing, disappointing, and only fun if you make fun of it. I'd hate if I was Norwegian and Maelstorm represented my country.

So if you were Norwegian would it be better if it showed scenes from a movie that had almost nothing to do with your country? If there is a problem with the ride then maybe they should just update the ride to better represent Norwegian culture. I am curious too, did you stay for the movie or walk right through like most people do?

Can't wait for kids who visit a Frozen pavilion to start looking for Arendelle on a map of Norway.

For the record, I have no problem with a Frozen attraction, but Epcot (and DHS imo) and Norway aren't where it should be.

 

[W. Dizney]

I like the ride as it is, In time Frozen can have its own area of MK as the other classics have gotten!

 

[Fox&Hound]

Your statement on why Disney is popular was very true, but your argument seems to miss the point. The parks are beginning to lose balance, and unnessisarily so.

When you ask non-fanatics what there favorite Disney rides are, chances are the most common answers will be attractions without specific character affiliations i.e. Pirates, Splash Mt, Space Mt. etc. These are iconic Disney attractions without characters. They are already recognizable, and that is the problem. Disney execs lack the courage to really create unique experiences anymore and rely more on recognizable properties. Its all about marketability and making money.

Now lets be honest, making money is the point, but you can still make money with a more traditional approach. Characters certainly have a place in the parks, but not at the expense of balance and theming. Inundating world showcase with characters does a disservice to the rich cultures represented, minimizing their importance. It's borderline insulting. Imagine visiting a foreign park with their own world showcase, and the America themed area had Mickey Mouse and a Hunger Games attraction with colonial style facades. It would do a deep disservice to our history and culture, but would certainly seem to fit Disney's current model. And the pavillion would likely be very popular, so who can argue with that?

I understand what you are saying but I don't fully believe this, though. Soarin', Mystic Manor, Kilimanjaro Safaris,and Expedition Everest are a few more recent rides that don't rely on a recognizable property. Yes, there is the misplaced trust in a brand like Avatar and other tie-in's but I think if Carsland and Potter have taught Disney execs anything, it's that people want easily recognizable worlds and characters. Disney still does new ideas too but I think they are listening to the people as well and trying to create worlds for people to visit their most beloved characters too.
Yes, I still think Frozen belongs in MK as the best fit or take over part of Hollywood Studios. It should be something bigger. But, it will bring new life into EPCOT and for a ride that's not even built yet, we have no idea how they could tie it into Norwegian culture. Maybe they will use the movie to show how Norway and it's myths and culture helped inspire the movie.
Or, as I said before, maybe the purpose of EPCOT is changing. Maybe they will use established characters to help teach about the various cultures represented in world showcase. Either way, I'm hopeful that EPCOT will get some love.

 

[wdisney9000]

I understand what you are saying but I don't fully believe this, though. Soarin', Mystic Manor, Kilimanjaro Safaris,and Expedition Everest are a few more recent rides that don't rely on a recognizable property. Yes, there is the misplaced trust in a brand like Avatar and other tie-in's but I think if Carsland and Potter have taught Disney execs anything, it's that people want easily recognizable worlds and characters. Disney still does new ideas too but I think they are listening to the people as well and trying to create worlds for people to visit their most beloved characters too.
Yes, I still think Frozen belongs in MK as the best fit or take over part of Hollywood Studios. It should be something bigger. But, it will bring new life into EPCOT and for a ride that's not even built yet, we have no idea how they could tie it into Norwegian culture. Maybe they will use the movie to show how Norway and it's myths and culture helped inspire the movie.
Or, as I said before, maybe the purpose of EPCOT is changing. Maybe they will use established characters to help teach about the various cultures represented in world showcase. Either way, I'm hopeful that EPCOT will get some love.

There was a lot of "maybes" in that post. Disneys "maybes" scare the crap out of me lately

 

[FigmentJedi]

They've always been a little loosey-goosey with the countries at Epcot, so having Scotland break off wouldn't be completely out of the realm of possibilities (that said, I think it's a poor use of space, and a Brave attraction would be horribly out of place there)

Agreed. Besides, if they forced characters into there, I'd rather they do what Mexico did and turn to the cartoon ducks.

 

[omurice]

I understand what you are saying but I don't fully believe this, though. Soarin', Mystic Manor, Kilimanjaro Safaris,and Expedition Everest are a few more recent rides that don't rely on a recognizable property. Yes, there is the misplaced trust in a brand like Avatar and other tie-in's but I think if Carsland and Potter have taught Disney execs anything, it's that people want easily recognizable worlds and characters. Disney still does new ideas too but I think they are listening to the people as well and trying to create worlds for people to visit their most beloved characters too.
Yes, I still think Frozen belongs in MK as the best fit or take over part of Hollywood Studios. It should be something bigger. But, it will bring new life into EPCOT and for a ride that's not even built yet, we have no idea how they could tie it into Norwegian culture. Maybe they will use the movie to show how Norway and it's myths and culture helped inspire the movie.
Or, as I said before, maybe the purpose of EPCOT is changing. Maybe they will use established characters to help teach about the various cultures represented in world showcase. Either way, I'm hopeful that EPCOT will get some love.

The stated purpose of EPCOT started veering wildly off course in about 1994, no 'maybe' about it! I still love visiting, but it's a different place almost entirely now. The mission statement now seems to be... Throw stuff at the wall, see if it sticks.

I too hope Epcot gets some love, and Fitzgerald establishes some cohesive new mission. But not overly hopeful of this unless we get a CEO that a) has a pulse, b) has a vision, c) worked in a park or a resort, and/or d) last name rhymes with "capacitor"!

On topic: My .02 like many, Frozen belongs in MK or DHS. Epcot does not feel right for movie tie-ins.

 

[jt04]

On topic: My .02 like many, Frozen belongs in MK or DHS. Epcot does not feel right for movie tie-ins.

It could work if the ride was available during the day for the target audience. WS should be for families up until Illuminations. That would prove popular. Time to look beyond Flower & Garden and Food & Wine and to a new business model for Epcot.

 

[DTale]

Does anyone know if this is actually happening or not?

 

[NormC]

Yes

 

[Kman101]

Of course nothing is "for sure" but it seems like most insiders are in agreement -- it's happening.

 

[gmajew]

I wish people would just enjoy the new stuff that was in the park. It is not suppose to be more then a special little promo push for a movie that destroyed it at the box office. It is a great event and that is that. I think for the demo this is going after it is a homerun, and gets people into this park.

 

[aladdin2007]

I wish people would just enjoy the new stuff that was in the park. It is not suppose to be more then a special little promo push for a movie that destroyed it at the box office. It is a great event and that is that. I think for the demo this is going after it is a homerun, and gets people into this park.

what new stuff, cheap signs and tacky archways cluttering the studios all last minute thrown together with two week planning time? And a little bland calvacade that could have been a real parade like Disney use to be masters at? The added fireworks are probably nice but sadly people will flock to anything Disney throws at them thanks to the blogging world, instead of demanding anything substantial like Disney use to excel at. This should all probably be in the DHS thread anyway, not the Frozen replacing Maelstrom.

 

[DontCallMeJr]

It could work if the ride was available during the day for the target audience. WS should be for families up until Illuminations. That would prove popular. Time to look beyond Flower & Garden and Food & Wine and to a new business model for Epcot.

I agree.
If they retheme WS into Disney characters from the various countries that would be great. You can still combine education/characters. Just please don't change maelstrom unless every country will have this change.

 

[vinnya1726]

I may be alone on an island here, but even in the face of alienating some people here it goes... It doesn't bother me that much.

Now I hate the hat at DHS. I hate the circus tent facades in Fantasyland. I hate the placement of Aladdin's Magic Carpets. I obviously despise Dinorama... So how can I support the placement of toons in World Showcase??

I am far more of an environment purist than I am a thematic purist. I don't like toons intruding in on real world environments, but that purist dies once I step through the doors into the queue.

The escape for me is walking through Harambe and being transported to that place and time. Nothing interrupts that escape. As an example, the BAH does the exact opposite, it interrupts the perfectly constructed environment of Fantasy Hollywood with a cartoon element. Same thing with the Magic Carpets in Adventureland.

For some reason, I have an automatic suspension of disbelief when I board the rides. Things like... why is Peter Pan inside a medieval house in Disneyland? The facade has no relation to the ride that is through the doors. It is still beautiful.

Part of that is that I expect the parks to be the escape and the rides to be a fun distraction. Because of that, the rides can have cartoon elements or be based on cartoons.

My expectations for the park environs are for real world, well constructed escapes that transport me to another time, place, or fantasy.

Since modern audiences expect Disney characters in every nook and cranny I just don't mind it if it is hidden from view and as tastefully done as possible.

I agree...I would even go as far as saying that maybe if done well ( I know that might be a stretch these days) but Disney could add attractions to each country in world showcase using it's IP to highlight the history or folk lore of each place.

Frozen in Norway
Ratatouille in France
Pinocchio in Italy
Mary Poppins in England
Aladdin in Morocco.
Mulan in China
Mickey and the gang in some sort of ride through american history in the American Pavilion. I am sure we can think of something for Japan and Canada.

Maybe it is a stretch, and maybe it would make a lot of purists made, but if Epcot's goal is to Educate then we need to look at what works in educating young people today. You need to make it fun, you need to make it innovative, you need to make it fast moving...I am all for the tradition of World Showcase, but those shows and movies are practically empty...wasted space and honestly wasted opportunity. We want Epcot to educated, but education today has changed and the internet has changed the way children learn about the world, so maybe world showcase needs to be reinvented a little along with the rest of Epcot.

 

[Yankee Mouse]

It could work if the ride was available during the day for the target audience. WS should be for families up until Illuminations. That would prove popular. Time to look beyond Flower & Garden and Food & Wine and to a new business model for Epcot.

Epcot almost always closes right after illuminations, so you are basically saying ws should be for families right up until closing.

Also maybe if people were open to actually teaching their kids about real culture instead of a dumbed down version full of cartoon characters set in a land that never really existed in the pavilion they are visiting this wouldn't be needed.

As a kid epcot was my favorite park, and I loved ws because my parents were open to teaching me about new and different cultures, it didn't need characters for us to enjoy it.

 

[jt04]

Epcot almost always closes right after illuminations, so you are basically saying ws should be for families right up until closing.

Also maybe if people were open to actually teaching their kids about real culture instead of a dumbed down version full of cartoon characters set in a land that never really existed in the pavilion they are visiting this wouldn't be needed.

As a kid epcot was my favorite park, and I loved ws because my parents were open to teaching me about new and different cultures, it didn't need characters for us to enjoy it.

Actually I am suggesting Epcot change operating hours until midnight. There would be nothing of interest to families after all the chracter themed attractions shut down in the early evening.

I would also suggest replacing Illuminations with a daytime character parade and adding a midnight fireworks display.

 

[Sped2424]

I wish people would just enjoy the new stuff that was in the park. It is not suppose to be more then a special little promo push for a movie that destroyed it at the box office. It is a great event and that is that. I think for the demo this is going after it is a homerun, and gets people into this park.

Now I don't mean this in a mean way, but are you saying we should just take whatever they are doing simply because they are trying? If so that's not a good reason to be happy with this overlay at all.

 

[Mike S]

Actually I am suggesting Epcot change operating hours until midnight. There would be nothing of interest to families after all the chracter themed attractions shut down in the early evening.

I would also suggest replacing Illuminations with a daytime character parade and adding a midnight fireworks display.

So families are only interested in character attractions? Please, tell me how the original EPCOT Center was still so entertaining to many people when they were CHILDREN who, according to you, need characters to be entertained.

 

[jt04]

So families are only interested in character attractions? Please, tell me how the original EPCOT Center was still so entertaining to many people when they were CHILDREN who, according to you, need characters to be entertained.

We live in a much smaller world than in 1982. Much much smaller. So I would suggest that the cultural significance of World Showcase can now only impact the youngest of families which character based attractions appeal to. That is why some suggest IaSW would be a much better fit for WS.

And of course, in the evenings offerings more geared to adults could be added. Not so much as something of a cultural exchange but rather a chance to try new food and beverage and just relax in a romantic atmosphere.

It would be very popular. Both during the day and evenings.