Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

[wdisney9000]

I guess that you mean 'forums with a bunch of complainers who grouse that disney can't do anything right. You can't mean WDW fan forums because other really big WDW fan forums don't have near the level of angst over this issue.

A few members respectfully disagree with you and you take it as high levels of angst?

 

[The Duck]

You know who you are.......

 

[marni1971]

Really? So, in the midst of all they're doing right now, people can still accuse TDO of coasting?

Absolutely.

DHS is still a swimming mess that could and should have been fixed years ago and continued to be plussed. Epcot is a shell of its former self that has been allowed to sink into a confused quagmire. DAK needs more than the welcome additions it's getting.

 

[lebeau]

The simple fact is, "kids will like this" is a far stronger argument than the empty arguments regarding Epcot's supposed original purpose or it's 'soul' or because of some strange desire to limit IPs.

Again, I'm not arguing for Frozen taking over Maelstrom, but I do think that the Norway pavilion is a good place for a Frozen attraction. I firmly believe that such action will make WS more enjoyable for many families.

How is your opinion a "simple fact". Do you even understand what a fact is?

Kids like a lot of dumb things. They also dislike a lot of great things. As wise man once said that if you aim only for kids, you're dead. You may have heard of him. His name was Walter Elias Disney. He went on to say that adults are just kids grown up anyway.

That was the sound of your entire argument imploding.

 

[Matt_Black]

How is your opinion a "simple fact". Do you even understand what a fact is?

Kids like a lot of dumb things. They also dislike a lot of great things. As wise man once said that if you aim only for kids, you're dead. You may have heard of him. His name was Walter Elias Disney. He went on to say that adults are just kids grown up anyway.

That was the sound of your entire argument imploding.

If it were just kids who liked Frozen, I don't think it would have made over a billion dollars worldwide. And have the soundtrack be #1 on billboard and iTunes. And inspire baby names. Etc.

 

[WDWDad13]

Yes, but your point was that Disney isn't coasting. The undisputable facts suggest they are. The only argument that supports your assertion that they aren't is based on unsubstantiated rumors.

you think Disney is "coasting"? I just returned from a 2 week trip and I have never seen so much construction going on at one time

 

[lebeau]

If it were just kids who liked Frozen, I don't think it would have made over a billion dollars worldwide. And have the soundtrack be #1 on billboard and iTunes. And inspire baby names. Etc.

Hey, I love Frozen. But I was refuting @dadddio when he claimed that "The simple fact is, "kids will like this" is a far stronger argument than the empty arguments regarding Epcot's supposed original purpose or it's 'soul' or because of some strange desire to limit IPs."

"Kids will like it" should not be the highest guiding principle when making decisions regarding what to do with the parks (especially Epcot).

Is Frozen popular? Yes. Should Disney build a Frozen attraction? Yes. But there are better alternatives to reskinning Maelstrom into a Frozen attraction. Surely you can concede as much.

Getting back to my original point, Disney shouldn't make decisions based on "kids will like it". Disney (the guy the company is named after) said so.

 

[lebeau]

you think Disney is "coasting"? I just returned from a 2 week trip and I have never seen so much construction going on at one time

I just got back too. Saw a lot of construction too. I saw them building DVC at the Poly (which is ahead of schedule according to the rumor mill), a parking structure at Downtown Disney and something at Port Orleans French Quarter (not sure exactly what that was). I know there is construction going on at DAK although we didn't visit that park because currently there isn't enough there for us to do to make it worth our while. Oh, and there was a lot going on around the hub at MK. It was not a good look.

Construction in and of itself doesn't impress me. The next attractions are years away after the better half of a decade was spent building the beautiful but lacking-in-substance FLE. Throwing up time shares at lightning speed and doubling the size of your shopping and dining complex doesn't count for much when the parks are allowed to get stagnant.

So, yeah, coasting. Big time.

 

[dadddio]

How is your opinion a "simple fact". Do you even understand what a fact is?

Kids like a lot of dumb things. They also dislike a lot of great things. As wise man once said that if you aim only for kids, you're dead. You may have heard of him. His name was Walter Elias Disney. He went on to say that adults are just kids grown up anyway.

That was the sound of your entire argument imploding.

Actually, it seems that you killed your own argument with the bolded bit.

Walt Disney knew that a successful theme park had to appeal to entire families. That was his entire point with that statement. Having a park that isn't getting the job done in that respect is not a good plan. If moving some IP to Epcot pleases a greater number of families, then that's a good decision. Your basic argument that people are stupid and that you are smarter than all of us normal folk doesn't get you the win for the simple fact that it is regular families that pay the bills, not a relatively small number of internet complainers.

 

[dadddio]

Hey, I love Frozen. But I was refuting @dadddio when he claimed that "The simple fact is, "kids will like this" is a far stronger argument than the empty arguments regarding Epcot's supposed original purpose or it's 'soul' or because of some strange desire to limit IPs."

"Kids will like it" should not be the highest guiding principle when making decisions regarding what to do with the parks (especially Epcot).

Is Frozen popular? Yes. Should Disney build a Frozen attraction? Yes. But there are better alternatives to reskinning Maelstrom into a Frozen attraction. Surely you can concede as much.

Getting back to my original point, Disney shouldn't make decisions based on "kids will like it". Disney (the guy the company is named after) said so.

I love this post so much!

You twist my main point just enough so you can make fun of it while not defending your flawed basic premise at all and then you try to push it home with a good old 'What would Walt do?'

That's a heckofa good post. A horribly flawed argument, but a great post.

 

[lebeau]

Actually, it seems that you killed your own argument with the bolded bit.

Actually, not so much. The point is you can't aim for kids. Kids grow up. Aim for the whole family and you can't go wrong.

I really can't believe I have to explain this famous Walt Disney quote to a Disney World fan. What have we come to!

Walt Disney knew that a successful theme park had to appeal to entire families. That was his entire point with that statement. Having a park that isn't getting the job done in that respect is not a good plan. If moving some IP to Epcot pleases a greater number of families, then that's a good decision. Your basic argument that people are stupid and that you are smarter than all of us normal folk doesn't get you the win for the simple fact that it is regular families that pay the bills, not a relatively small number of internet complainers.

Wow. I don't even know how to respond to that. If that's what you think my argument comes down to, I am truly at a loss.

And how is Epcot a park that doesn't appeal to the entire family? I see lots of families being appealed to there all the time.

I think you mistake your personal preferences for some kind of majority opinion.

 

[lebeau]

I love this post so much!

You twist my main point just enough so you can make fun of it while not defending your flawed basic premise at all and then you try to push it home with a good old 'What would Walt do?'

That's a heckofa good post. A horribly flawed argument, but a great post.

Eh, thanks?

I'm not sure how my argument is horribly flawed or how I twisted your point when I quoted it verbatim. But I'm glad you like the post I guess.

 

[wdisney9000]

I wasn't referring to anyone disagreeing with me, exactly. It was more an issue of 'the masses'.

You claimed this site has extreme levels of angst on this issue while other Disney fan sites do not. You claimed this site is full of complainers as well while other sites are not. An easy fall back argument if your belief isn't accepted. It often comes from the "Disney is never wrong, neither am I" camp.

It does raise a question. why not just join a "happy site" where everyone agrees with you?

 

[dadddio]

You claimed this site has extreme levels of angst on this issue while other Disney fan sites do not. You claimed this site is full of complainers as well while other sites are not. An easy fall back argument if your belief isn't accepted. It often comes from the "Disney is never wrong, neither am I" camp.

It does raise a question. why not just join a "happy site" where everyone agrees with you?

I guess that because you come from a position of "Disney is always wrong and I'm always right", then you probably do believe the bolded bit about everyone who disagrees with you. It must be a challenge to always be smarter than everyone else. One wonders why all of those people just don't defer to your superiority.

None of this changes anything. If the rumor is true, TPTB will be replacing Maelstrom with a Frozen attraction.

I believe that Frozen is a good match for the Norway pavilion.
Given that Maelstrom wasn't a great ride, I imagine that it will be a positive change.
It will likely lead to increased enjoyment of WS for my family.

 

[dupac]

@dadddio Why is a Frozen overlay of Maelstrom a good idea? Just your straightforward argument, please.

 

[SJN1279]

Parking garages, scheduled refurbs and third party shopping malls don't count.

You should've visited in 1987. THAT was a lot.

I used to go to WDW with my family every year from 1984 to 1992. The parks are much better now. Imagine going to WDW in the mid-80s when Space Mountain was being refurbished and before Splash Mountain or any other thrill rides were around. I remember a couple of years where the only attraction that went over 5 MPH was Big Thunder Mountain.

Nostalgia is a powerful drug.

 

[ChrisFL]

Parking garages, scheduled refurbs and third party shopping malls don't count.

You should've visited in 1987. THAT was a lot.

What? You don't like the "Year of a million tons of concrete"?

 

[FrankLapidus]

If it was simply because of greed we would never have gotten Carsland/BVS. Or Disney Springs.

I have three possibilities.

1. Disney was waiting to see what the competition was doing and fan reaction before responding.
2. Disney wants an overall healthy central Florida tourism industry so they are letting Uni catch up.
3. Disney is under political pressure to allow breathing space for other central Florida attractions.*
You and any other of our experts please tell me which it is and justify with facts. I would be grateful.

*see Apple vs Microsoft for how this happens if you doubt me.

Or, conversely, why don't you justify and prove each scenario with facts instead of throwing theories out there and then asking other people to explain them for you?

Why should anyone else have to prove your theories for you? How about backing them up yourself and proving that Disney were doing any one of those things?

 

[Mike S]

I used to go to WDW with my family every year from 1984 to 1992. The parks are much better now. Imagine going to WDW in the mid-80s when Space Mountain was being refurbished and before Splash Mountain or any other thrill rides were around. I remember a couple of years where the only attraction that went over 5 MPH was Big Thunder Mountain.

Nostalgia is a powerful drug.

Oh man I wish I could go to that time just to see the original EPCOT Center in all it's glory with my own eyes, I only have foggy memories from the 90's as everything was being torn out. Less thrill rides wouldn't bother me much.

If it was simply because of greed we would never have gotten Carsland/BVS. Or Disney Springs.

I have three possibilities.

1. Disney was waiting to see what the competition was doing and fan reaction before responding.
2. Disney wants an overall healthy central Florida tourism industry so they are letting Uni catch up.
3. Disney is under political pressure to allow breathing space for other central Florida attractions.*

You and any other of our experts please tell me which it is and justify with facts. I would be grateful.

*see Apple vs Microsoft for how this happens if you doubt me.

Those are some of the stupidest things I've ever read since joining these boards

 

[jt04]

Or, conversely, why don't you justify and prove each scenario with facts instead of throwing theories out there and then asking other people to explain them for you?

Why should anyone else have to prove your theories for you? How about backing them up yourself and proving that Disney were doing any one of those things?

I have spent a lot of time trying to figure it out. OBJ once had an article that said number 2 is correct. Plenty here claim number 1 is correct but Disney has sunk billions into WDW in just the last few years.

Nobody goes near my third suggestion which makes me think it might be the real story.

I truly have no idea if it is one of these or something I have not thought of. Is Disney playing possum? I guess that is a fourth possibility.