Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

[MarkTwain]

Guys, for the sake of discussion let's say an owl came by and told me that Norway will remain as-is and that the Frozen ride is just going to be Fiesta Tour'd into Norway.

Also, for the sake of discussion, let's say the same owl has also advised that I have real, honest to god, IMAGINEERS reading my posts! I am so flattered that I am receiving so much attention! I feel like these honours are mainly reserved for @WDW1974!

Sure it sounds better, but let's be real here. Look at the proposed Norway pavilion in the future and what do you have? A Frozen-themed boat ride. A gift shop that said ride exits into, already partially-filled with Frozen-themed merchandise and most likely becoming even more so (and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they renamed it Oaken's Trading Post). A table service restaurant filled with princesses, probably to include Anna and Elsa at some point. An exhibit themed to the art of... you guessed it... Frozen. And a bakery for good measure.

They can call the pavilion whatever they want on the park map, but with the proposed attraction replacement and the unfortunate changes the pavilion has already seen, it's basically Arendelle with a bakery and a beer stand. Disney has little to no interest in showcasing actual Norwegian culture.

 

[pheneix]

I have not taken issue with any rumor that Lee has presented. The only thing that I have expressed any doubt in is Phenix' outlandish claims that they were going to do away with the Norway pavilion and make it officially an 'Arendelle' pavilion.

And why do you have a frakking problem with them? This is a news and rumors forum and we are discussing rumors. The project's budget was slashed by 40%. Things change. If WDW were not under such strict cash management as it is currently, I suspect Maelstrom would have already been closed. But we live in reality.

Much past that, I don't actually talk to my "sources" all the time about theme park news much in the same way that I don't post here all the time. I've more important things to do. I would also add that NO ONE, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON, has "proven me wrong" or offered evidence that such a project is not under way. Also, by the way, there were two separate pitches for this facility. I don't think give a flying rip about detailing the differences now but if there was some confusion about what I was doubling down on and then clarifying matters over, that's why. If people have an issue with that, so be it. I suspect most who did are mature adults who just said "whatever" and went to a different thread.

Truly, there isn't a single theme park community I interact with anywhere in the world that has the dysfunction, hostility, SEVERE mental problems, and downright nasty attitudes that precious "Disney fans" carry with them seemingly at all times. I appreciate that there are many here who love Disney that have a similar intolerance to this insanity, but, my tolerance runs lower.

I will be catching all you beautiful people sometime in the future, perhaps when I have news that I am enthusiastic for. For now, this is too much of a bother.

EDIT: So I stuck around and kept posting after this. D'oh.

 

[dupac]

I will catch all you beautiful people sometime in the future, perhaps when I have news that I am enthusiastic for. For now, this is too much of a bother.

I have seen this happen too many times. Like the sibling who throws a fit and prevents us all from getting ice cream.

 

[pheneix]

I have seen this happen too many times. Like the sibling who throws a fit and prevents us all from getting ice cream.

EDIT: @dupac, apology accepted. ;-)

 

[pheneix]

I don't believe it ever actually GOT that far, but nice to know that's officially become part of the legend for "Why it's 'not happening' after all." We're getting back to reality, just through other routes.

Curious, do you really work for Walt Disney Imagineering? Is this why you are a self-appointed arbiter of all that is true and holy at Walt Disney World? Because aside from Imagineers being about as in the know as bus drivers about the future of this resort, it would be a total shame to discover that our beloved "Imagineers" have so much contempt towards the fans that support them so much.

Actually, it won't be a shame. Or a discovery. We have known this for a LONG time before sock puppet accounts started appearing last month.

 

[aladdin2007]

pheneix I know you mentioned screens, do you think it would be screens replacing sets outright? Or more of a mix of the two. Being a water ride I cant see too many screens through there.

 

[pheneix]

pheneix I know you mentioned screens, do you think it would be screens replacing sets outright? Or more of a mix of the two. Being a water ride I cant see too many screens through there.

Just for the sake of contributing something positive to discussion, I have been told that the ride will feature physical sets and AAs. Some screens but not many. Maybe none at all depending on whats done with oil rig room.

"Or so the rumors say"

 

[aladdin2007]

Just for the sake of contributing something positive to discussion, I have been told that the ride will feature physical sets and AAs. Some screens but not many. Maybe none at all depending on whats done with oil rig room.

"Or so the rumors say"

gotcha, thank you. Yeah the oil rig room is somewhat of an odd shaped room, if they take out the oil rig not sure what they could do in there, but I could see some sort of screen tech along the walls on the left hand side.

 

[dupac]

I'm imagining Anna & Elsa giving a tour of an offshore rig LOL. Yeah, regardless of how they frame the ride (story or tour) that part will have to go

 

[wdwmagic]

Having to do a lot of moderating in this thread where it should not be necessary. Can I remind you that we need to remain civil and to respect other opinions. Please stop insults, name calling. The conversation will be far more productive and useful if that is the case.

 

[aladdin2007]

i'm pleased that there just going to do an overlay and not gut the whole pavillian.

hopefully, question is which way will the overlay go....just a snippet of the frozen story, or keeping a Norwegian tone/theme (as they should) and the frozen characters giving a tour of Norway...I hope for the latter. Even on a meager budget they could do that, but Im not sure they know any better any more.

 

[TinkerBell9988]

I know your directing your question to Lee, but I don't believe the Norwegian government has anything to do with it, unless they are entering a new deal with Disney, which I dont believe they are. But I can find out shortly if there is any yay/nay to that

They still very much have a lot to do with the Norway pavilion. In terms of approvals of what happens there, etc. But let's see what you can find out. Maybe their stance has changed, who knows anymore! haha!

 

[dupac]

They still very much have a lot to do with the Norway pavilion. In terms of approvals of what happens there, etc. But let's see what you can find out. Maybe their stance has changed, who knows anymore! haha!

From all the research I've done, the more Norway can associate themselves with Frozen, the happier they are.

 

[CDavid]

I can imagine it would be just as much of a shame for the Imagineers to discover that the beloved fans that support them so much have so much contempt toward them.

The contempt is generally aimed not at the Imagineers, but rather at the executives (often Team Disney Orlando) who are responsible for the operation and direction of the parks and resorts, and who often appear to fundamentally not understand either their own customers or the business of theme parks.

Imagineers are generally well respected as a talented group who can deliver a quality, properly themed & detailed, and well-executed attraction experience when they have the budget and creative freedom to do so. That's too often lacking. It is rather disconcerting to learn they would be surprised at fan reaction to the decimation of Maelstrom for an attraction which is thematically a poor fit in World Showcase.

There have been creative disappointments in the past (the redo of the original Journey into Imagination being the most obvious) from Imagineering, but the far bigger problem stems from the executive ranks. Disney has too little respect for its own history and creative accomplishments, from the Polynesian Lobby, to the Tiki Room, and now to World Showcase.

 

[Mike S]

im holding out hope that ratatouille still happens in France or anywhere

I say put it next to Midway Mania. It's not like the Door Coaster will happen anytime soon, might as well put SOMETHING in there.

 

[DinoInstitute]

I say put it next to Midway Mania. It's not like the Door Coaster will happen anytime soon, might as well put SOMETHING in there.

I agree. Even a swinger ride would be SOMETHING. And if it is put on the opposite side, it could catch some of the midway mania crowd.

Ratatouille would fit great there. But unfortunately i think we are looking at a toon showcase

 

[pheneix]

hopefully, question is which way will the overlay go....just a snippet of the frozen story, or keeping a Norwegian tone/theme (as they should) and the frozen characters giving a tour of Norway...I hope for the latter. Even on a meager budget they could do that, but Im not sure they know any better any more.

The simplest, most objective answer I can give to that is that there seem to be two separate pitches/projects that were under consideration. One involved a total swap out of Norway for new IP. I know was I adamant about what I said earlier but after getting so much of an earful about how hard budgets were slashed, I don't know how this is feasible. I'm betting on just the ride getting refreshed.

And now I am going to attach this completely unrelated commentary to my reply to you to save a few clicks:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Full disclosure guys, when I made my original posts on this topic, I was queued up for a dungeon in an online game, bored. I was not in any rush to hit the message board with "hot off the presses" rumors. In fact, I didn't even bother writing my source again until the following day.

My posts probably caused some unnecessary alarm because I as have acknowledged, my writing style is rather aggressive and I don't even *try* to be that way. It just is what it is. I'm also going to frustrate many more people by also saying that I am sliding towards the @HTF philosophy of "this is great to discuss but I don't really care if I end up being wrong." Life is just easier when you don't dramatize the small stuff.

If that sounds hypocritical because of how I write, I apologize. I am not emotionally invested in "being right" or being "top dog" or having a "spotlight" here. At all.

Also, one final personal note: I am not a "Disney fan" by any stretch of the word. While I grew up going to Walt Disney World and loved the hell out of it, it's not my thing anymore. It is IMPOSSIBLE not to talk about WDW because I DO have a passion for theme parks and it is necessary to study what Disney is doing. If for no other reason, I have to show other theme parks what NOT to do. ;-)

But as far as being a "fan" or having any emotional attachment to the place? Nope. All gone. That's also going to be reflected in my writing style. That probably sounds weird saying this on a WDW forum but it largely looks like this forum is as much recovery room for heartbroken old school fans as it is a gathering place for the new ones.

I will finish this awkward personal note with a phrase I used earlier in this thread, which is "love everybody, hate everything." If you're really angry at WDW or angry at someone who is angry at WDW and want to vent, keep that in mind while you write. Everything just goes smoother.

 

[pheneix]

There have been creative disappointments in the past (the redo of the original Journey into Imagination being the most obvious) from Imagineering, but the far bigger problem stems from the executive ranks. Disney has too little respect for its own history and creative accomplishments, from the Polynesian Lobby, to the Tiki Room, and now to World Showcase.

I will write more on this topic in the future, I promise. But over the course of my adult life I've slowly come around to the conclusion that many of these operations side theme park executives are vilified for no good reason. Imagineering is the problem guys. If the creative sucks, the operations side has no chance of succeeding at its own goals. Universal learned this lesson the hard way from 2005-2010.

 

[Rodan75]

The simplest, most objective answer I can give to that is that there seem to be two separate pitches/projects that were under consideration. One involved a total swap out of Norway for new IP. I know was I adamant about what I said earlier but after getting so much of an earful about how hard budgets were slashed, I don't know how this is feasible. I'm betting on just the ride getting refreshed.

And now I am going to attach this completely unrelated commentary to my reply to you to save a few clicks:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Full disclosure guys, when I made my original posts on this topic, I was queued up for a dungeon in an online game, bored. I was not in any rush to hit the message board with "hot off the presses" rumors. In fact, I didn't even bother writing my source again until the following day.

My posts probably caused some unnecessary alarm because I as have acknowledged, my writing style is rather aggressive and I don't even *try* to be that way. It just is what it is. I'm also going to frustrate many more people by also saying that I am sliding towards the @HTF philosophy of "this is great to discuss but I don't really care if I end up being wrong." Life is just easier when you don't dramatize the small stuff.

If that sounds hypocritical because of how I write, I apologize. I am not emotionally invested in "being right" or being "top dog" or having a "spotlight" here. At all.

Also, one final personal note: I am not a "Disney fan" by any stretch of the word. While I grew up going to Walt Disney World and loved the hell out of it, it's not my thing anymore. It is IMPOSSIBLE not to talk about WDW because I DO have a passion for theme parks and it is necessary to study what Disney is doing. If for no other reason, I have to show other theme parks what NOT to do. ;-)

But as far as being a "fan" or having any emotional attachment to the place? Nope. All gone. That's also going to be reflected in my writing style. That probably sounds weird saying this on a WDW forum but it largely looks like this forum is as much recovery room for heartbroken old school fans as it is a gathering place for the new ones.

I will finish this awkward personal note with a phrase I used earlier in this thread, which is "love everybody, hate everything." If you're really angry at WDW or angry at someone who is angry at WDW and want to vent, keep that in mind while you write. Everything just goes smoother.

I, for one, always appreciate your posts and your insight. Thank you! I agree going the @HTF route is probably for the best.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I'll add to what CDavid said by saying that i've seldom seen anyone here or elsewhere in the Disney fanbase diss imagineers (few exceptions of course). A lot of people in fact have a lot of respect for them as they still has some obvious talent left (such as the people in charge of Cars Land and Mystic Point, or even the Mine Train to some extent). The problem people generally have with Disney projects is the constant budget cuts, which is the fault of corporate executives i'd guess and likely not WDI's fault. The biggest flaw with imagineering is the bloat they've come to have. Though i'd say we've seen evidence that plenty of talent still exists, they just need the right leaders above (to give proper creative direction, weed out the people with dumb ideas like this, not destroy the budgets of these projects and cease the attempts at making the environment so toxic).

They may well deserve such disapproval now if what pheneix said is true about them hating the fanbase and wanting to go forward with projects like this, but the community has been pretty respectful and patient with the creatives. So unless all talent and sensibility is truly gone from WDI, I don't know why they hate the fans so much because we're rather supportive of them in general. The only real criticisms i've seen are towards people like Tom Fitzgerald for his disregard for physical sets and animatronics in favor of video screens (and some people were actually positive about his appointment to EPCOT's restructuring). One of the few people who has really tried to flame WDI as a whole was that CountryBearFan character and his/her alt accounts (and he's one of those truly mentally ill trolls).

In general though the community has been against the executives stifling WDI, not WDI. Whoever designed and approved this project though deserves a lot of vitriol, whether they be executives or imagineers. Like Lee said, this or the proposed Matterhorn redo should be a firing offense no matter what the position.

I will write more on this topic in the future, I promise. But over the course of my adult life I've slowly come around to the conclusion that many of these operations side theme park executives are vilified for no good reason. Imagineering is the problem guys. If the creative sucks, the operations side has no chance of succeeding at its own goals. Universal learned this lesson the hard way from 2005-2010.

I don't see how the imagineers have much to do with the poor way the parks are maintained though. There could well be major problems in creative, but i've still seen them do some good jobs with Disneyland and oversees projects (Cars Land and Mystic Manor are really cool as far as i'm concerned) when they're allowed to and don't have their budgets completely mutilated, so i'm not sure what the problem with WDW is. Lee has also shown how much better the Mine Train could have been had executives not sliced into its budget so intensely (and even then it turned out somewhat better than we worried thanks to the new AA figures).

There are clearly other serious issues within besides just WDI. Even if they too are an issue.