Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

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WildcatDen

Well-Known Member
How is something opening years away a response to something opening in about a month?
Did you not learn anything from Jack and Rose's "Lovefest" The Titanic cannot turn on a dime. . .

In addition, let me point out I have been a member on here since 2006 (thanks Steve!) and I have a little over 700 posts. You have not been lazy, regardless of your username, with over 7700 posts since 2009. Maybe you 'care' a bit more than I do, or I put my priorities in a different order?
 
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WildcatDen

Well-Known Member

WildcatDen

Well-Known Member
Wizarding World of Harry Potter opened four years ago. If that is a dime then Walt Disney World is in even bigger trouble.
So it's a big dime. A dime that maybe, just maybe underestimated the wizard? Still, it has been said before, when Universal has 4 theme parks, 2 waterparks and the hotel rooms, we can compare apples to apples. Right now, it is still grapefruit to grapes. Please understand, I really like Universal as well. Of course, I expected you to hit on the Titanic reference, not the dime. . .
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
So it's a big dime. A dime that maybe, just maybe underestimated the wizard? Still, it has been said before, when Universal has 4 theme parks, 2 waterparks and the hotel rooms, we can compare apples to apples. Right now, it is still grapefruit to grapes. Please understand, I really like Universal as well. Of course, I expected you to hit on the Titanic reference, not the dime. . .
Walt Disney World had projects ready and chose not to act on them and continues to chose not to act on them. It is not even an issue of right or wrong, but Walt Disney World has most definitely chosen not to become engaged in a 'theme park war' with Universal Orlando Resort. That decision in of itself is not a problem. Neither is the decision to pursue the so-called 'blue ocean strategy' by doing something completely different that makes you more unique compared to the competition (the goal of MyMagic+).

The size of Walt Disney World is irrelevant. Disney has enjoyed a unique degree of control over their Florida land and it nobody else's fault they squandered the blessings of size. Walt Disney Parks and Resorts is also by far the largest operator of theme parks and Walt Disney World the largest of those theme park resorts. Resources are simply not a factor. Disney is where they are because they choose to be there.
 
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Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
I don't normally post, but this thread got me thinking. Could it be possible that this value-engineered overlay might be a sort of "proof of concept" for future Frozen attractions abroad? Similar to Jack Sparrow at DHS being a test for the SDL Pirates ride. Especially since we know according to Iger that Frozen is a top five franchise and that SDL just received a major cash influx. Not to mention HKDL's rumored fast-tracked second gate.
Don't say that. That would make me resent TDO even more if they used an ENTIRE PAVILION as testing ground and sacrificed what was left of Epcot's thematic integrity for a better attraction in a future park.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
I'll preface this by saying that I don't like the idea of characters in Epcot, especially World Showcase. Having said that, Epcot is a very difficult park to market for anything other than seasonal events. So it's time Disney asks the question, are they comfortable with Epcot being the nighttime hangout spot and the newest version of Pleasure Island? If they're not satisfied with that, is there a franchise that's acceptable to revitalize the park from fan's eyes? I highly doubt it.

This doesn't mean that they're incapable of adding new attractions that aren't tied to an intellectual property but the perception since Potter opened is that intellectual property is the way to go. The problem is, Disney isn't Universal. Intellectual property driven attractions have a shelf life outside of Fantaslyand. Universal has the luxury of not having a rabid fan base that views their parks as sacred. There are no fanboy outcries because Transformers was dropped in the middle of the park.

So is Disney giving in to the pressures of Universal and building things based solely on what's hot right now because it's an easier sell? It's easier to do it that way, but if they do this in World Showcase, they have to understand what it actually means.

I've brought it up before and I'll bring it up again. Moving it's a small world to Showcase Plaza solves many problems. It doesn't fix Epcot by any means, but it adds another attraction that is more logical in Epcot than Fantasyland. More importantly, it creates room for intellectual property driven attractions where they belong: Fantasyland. The popularity of Magic Kingdom isn't going away, sure you could homogenize the other parks so that they're all variants of the Magic Kingdom and that could spread out the crowds, but at what cost? Losing the identity of the parks?

Magic Kingdom: Fantasyland should be for Disney animation only. Yes, it can exist elsewhere on property where applicable (I don't think Lion King makes sense thematically for example).
Epcot: A return to science and discovery. A return to cultures around the world (or around Europe and Asia)
Hollywood Studios: The romanticized version of Hollywood's yesteryear in the front. Romanticized versions of studios in the back (Pixar and Star Wars would be a great start)
Animal Kingdom: Animals real, imaginary and extinct.
 

EricJ

Active Member
Walt Disney World had projects ready and chose not to act on them and continues to chose not to act on them. It is not even an issue of right or wrong, but Walt Disney World has most definitely chosen not to become engaged in a 'theme park war' with Universal Orlando Resort. That decision in of itself is not a problem. Neither is the decision to pursue the so-called 'blue ocean strategy' by doing something completely different that makes you more unique compared to the competition (the goal of MyMagic+).

The imagined "Potter-Swatter War", is, I think, what we over on the movie boards call the Tiger Beat Factor.
So named in honor of the fan magazine that monthly told fangirls what "feud" Justin Bieber was having this week with 1D or vice versa, but referring to the whole concept that diehard fans have to imagine their favorite things battling each other out for dominance, like plastic dinosaurs.
Could Iron Man beat the Dark Knight? Did Frozen beat Tangled? Walking Dead vs. Game of Thrones, Halo vs. Titan fall, who rulez?

Harry Potter is quite impressive, yes. So was Spiderman. As I recall, when Spiderman came out at IOA and was the greatest theme-park attraction in central Florida for its day, I don't recall Disney doing Danged Thing One to compete with it. Not because they were "neglectful" or "lazy" or "cheap" or "gave up" the chance to fight their Mortal Enemy tooth and nail, but I would guess that they let it be Universal's own business. Disney didn't have Marvel back then, or King Kong or Jurassic Park or Men in Black, and Universal didn't have the princesses or Mickey Mouse...So there. That's why they're different brands.
More to the point, Universal didn't really keep itself up to the standards that Disney prided itself on, and once an attraction spent out its honeymoon over there, it tended to gather dust. Universal, at the moment, doesn't really seem to have any long term strategies besides seeing how much more Transformers, Harry, Minions and the Simpsons they can stuff into the park to beef up the attractions that are already getting lines while the getting is good, and when those expire, they'll either let them rot or go out and get some more.

Disney doesn't do that. They DO, however, compete with Universal where they're aware they're good at--They provide a more professional resort/customer experience because they know they can, and it would be immature to do anything else...As you can see, it's already pretty darn immature to even think about it.
Which a lot of fans spend an unhealthy amount of time doing, for reasons that could only appeal to their own age, and I'd guess a LOT more than the average Imagineer--who is older and employed in the field--does.
 
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Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
Jeez, I cannot BELIEVE this is a reality. Trust TDO, I guess, to half- something. The best little ride in Epcot is going to be sacrificed to the Frozen phenomenon, instead of a new Frozen land or attraction added to New Fantasyland, which at least would make some sense. If TDO didn't want to expand NFL, then why not tear out the little-visited Muppet theater in DHS and put a Frozen attraction there? That's an enclosed area where some cool effects could be added. The buildings within could have frost and snow on them, and the fountain there could be replaced with a Frozen-themed fountain, and the facade of the theater could be changed into an ice palace. Snow could fall in that area from time to time. That could rock. Yes, Fantasyland would be best for Frozen, but DHS as a second choice would make much more sense than Norway!
 

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
As @doctornick said they could use the expansion pad next to Norway to build something bigger, but the existing Maelstrom ride isn't big enough and there are going to be crowd issues too.
anyone who has seen maelstrom knows that the queue can't even handle a 30 minute wait without the line stretching into the courtyard. If the frozen girls get 5 hour wait times imagine a dark ride for them? Someone seriously needs to wake up over there, or just walk into the park one day.
 

WildcatDen

Well-Known Member
nobody else's fault they squandered the blessings of size.
And where are they? The top vacation theme park destination in the world? Yup, opportunity squandered. Of course, if this is shaping up to become a battle royal, I am guessing we are still in the middle innings?
 

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
Jeez, I cannot BELIEVE this is a reality. Trust TDO, I guess, to half- something. The best little ride in Epcot is going to be sacrificed to the Frozen phenomenon, instead of a new Frozen land or attraction added to New Fantasyland, which at least would make some sense. If TDO didn't want to expand NFL, then why not tear out the little-visited Muppet theater in DHS and put a Frozen attraction there? That's an enclosed area where some cool effects could be added. The buildings within could have frost and snow on them, and the fountain there could be replaced with a Frozen-themed fountain, and the facade of the theater could be changed into an ice palace. Snow could fall in that area from time to time. That could rock. Yes, Fantasyland would be best for Frozen, but DHS as a second choice would make much more sense than Norway!
I would say animation courtyard would be a bitter fit for frozen.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
I'll preface this by saying that I don't like the idea of characters in Epcot, especially World Showcase. Having said that, Epcot is a very difficult park to market for anything other than seasonal events. So it's time Disney asks the question, are they comfortable with Epcot being the nighttime hangout spot and the newest version of Pleasure Island? If they're not satisfied with that, is there a franchise that's acceptable to revitalize the park from fan's eyes? I highly doubt it.

This doesn't mean that they're incapable of adding new attractions that aren't tied to an intellectual property but the perception since Potter opened is that intellectual property is the way to go. The problem is, Disney isn't Universal. Intellectual property driven attractions have a shelf life outside of Fantaslyand. Universal has the luxury of not having a rabid fan base that views their parks as sacred. There are no fanboy outcries because Transformers was dropped in the middle of the park.

So is Disney giving in to the pressures of Universal and building things based solely on what's hot right now because it's an easier sell? It's easier to do it that way, but if they do this in World Showcase, they have to understand what it actually means.

I've brought it up before and I'll bring it up again. Moving it's a small world to Showcase Plaza solves many problems. It doesn't fix Epcot by any means, but it adds another attraction that is more logical in Epcot than Fantasyland. More importantly, it creates room for intellectual property driven attractions where they belong: Fantasyland. The popularity of Magic Kingdom isn't going away, sure you could homogenize the other parks so that they're all variants of the Magic Kingdom and that could spread out the crowds, but at what cost? Losing the identity of the parks?

Magic Kingdom: Fantasyland should be for Disney animation only. Yes, it can exist elsewhere on property where applicable (I don't think Lion King makes sense thematically for example).
Epcot: A return to science and discovery. A return to cultures around the world (or around Europe and Asia)
Hollywood Studios: The romanticized version of Hollywood's yesteryear in the front. Romanticized versions of studios in the back (Pixar and Star Wars would be a great start)
Animal Kingdom: Animals real, imaginary and extinct.
There is enough space in Fantasyland without having to tear out It's a Small World and move it to Epcot, which would never happen anyway. Other than that your ideas are great.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
And where are they? The top vacation theme park destination in the world? Yup, opportunity squandered. Of course, if this is shaping up to become a battle royal, I am guessing we are still in the middle innings?
How Walt Disney World has squandered its size has nothing to do with Universal Orlando Resort or any other theme parks in the world. It is an internal measure regarding how everything works from poorly organized development to a business model that now views Walt Disney World not as a single operation but a geographic cluster of competing businesses.
 

EricJ

Active Member
Jeez, I cannot BELIEVE this is a reality. Trust TDO, I guess, to half- something. The best little ride in Epcot is going to be sacrificed to the Frozen phenomenon,

(Uh, you do know you're answering a post from eleven pages back, not to mention yesterday, before he finally backed down on his "scoop" claim, do you?
So, guess you can go ahead and not believe it, then. No need for crap.)
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
(Uh, you do know you're answering a post from eleven pages back, not to mention yesterday, before he finally backed down on his "scoop" claim, do you?
So, guess you can go ahead and not believe it, then. No need for crap.)

No, I didn't realize that. I skimmed the pages but missed that part. Thanks, that is such a relief. I owe you one.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Um...yes?
Just HOW wrong, how loudly, how often, how stubbornly, and how narcissistic and self-franchisingly, can be debated by the rest of us at leisure, but let's just grasp it from the basics, start with Wrong, and go from there.

There's no need for us to go widespread, take recriminations and shame all the poor innocent victims whose dark sides you tried to seduce, and lead in to willingly listen to their fears and grudges over how "cheaply" they thought Epcot was being managed, how "greedy" you thought the company would be over the movie, or how Epcot "needed" another coaster or whichever.
You wanted the spotlight, and when it was shining on you, after it was all over, you found your fly was open in front of everyone. Hey, don't worry, happens to all of us. Usually in fourth grade. Still have nightmares about it all the time.

DlJVpiu.gif

and you're still at it.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if in mere days.... most people will have you blocked.
All thanks to your constant need to stirr problems and taking things way out of proportion.
It almost feels like you take @pheneix as the murderer of your family or some equally offensive action to have this ridiculous fixation.
You keep claiming about how loud, stubborn and narcissistic others are.. yet you're exactly displaying the same with a huge bulk of "rude" added to the package.

It feels like you cannot let go and you MUST BE RIGHT at all costs in this forum to feel complete in your life.

But it is still hilarious how a simple Leak (of a probable horrible course of action by WDW management) as caused you all these things you mentioned, like somehow @pheneix is stealing YOUR spotlight and YOU ENVY said spotlight.. hence your attempts to reclaim the attention by your ridiculous and constant posts.

I honestly suggest, for your sanity and everyone's on this thread.. that you go elsewhere.. after all : you dislike leaks, rumors, discussions about leaks rumors and possible plans..(which ironically is the theme of this thread) in a way that seems to be affecting your health and mod (like your posts portray)
 
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