"Frozen" coming to Disneyland?

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
Having a Pinocchio ride where Pinocchio never becomes a real boy is like doing a Lion King ride where Simba doesn't become king.
I see nothing wrong with that. The ride is about running away from home and the panic that sets in when the world is scary, not about his desire to be a real boy. A Lion King ride that a was a rafting adventure through the Elephant Graveyard chase or a Just Can't Wait to be King themed darkride would be a blast, I don't need King Simba to show up if the ride isn't about that.

Alice never shows Alice waking up. Snow White didn't show Snow passing out or waking up for decades because the ride was about escaping the Witch. Now, its a messy attraction that lost its identity. Recreating movie moments is generally not a great way to go for darkrides. Its a different medium. Pinocchio becoming a real boys has nothing to do with the story they chose to tell in the medium of a theme park attraction.
 

Rich T

Well-Known Member
I wonder if it had something to do with a minimal movement animatronic of “real boy” Pinocchio being more disturbing and distracting than just puppet Pinocchio?
I agree that’s an issue. I suggested staging it in a way that lets you know he’s real without letting you get a clear look at his face. Maybe have Gepetto holding him in the air while dancing in circles… really fast. 😄

… Or reveal his face as a last-second jump scare.
 

Rich T

Well-Known Member
I see nothing wrong with that. The ride is about running away from home and the panic that sets in when the world is scary, not about his desire to be a real boy. A Lion King ride that a was a rafting adventure through the Elephant Graveyard chase or a Just Can't Wait to be King themed darkride would be a blast, I don't need King Simba to show up if the ride isn't about that.

Alice never shows Alice waking up. Snow White didn't show Snow passing out or waking up for decades because the ride was about escaping the Witch. Now, its a messy attraction that lost its identity. Recreating movie moments is generally not a great way to go for darkrides. Its a different medium. Pinocchio becoming a real boys has nothing to do with the story they chose to tell in the medium of a theme park attraction.
We’re all overthinking this as all theme park fans do. Tony Baxter created a fine ride. But there are reasons it doesn’t stick in guest’s memories as a must-do repeat experience.

And I think there are two main reasons for this:

1) There’s a bit too much emphasis on atmosphere and build-up; just enough to make it feel slow, repetitive and (ironically) lifeless.

2) It tries to have its cake and eat it too. If it’s a book report, include the ending. Don’t make it so literal right up to the finale and then change gears. If it’s—as you say—a ride meant to concentrate on theme, then run with it and don’t be constrained by the film plot.

This is why the original dark rides were so effective and why Pan and Toad are so still much fun. Toad is about chaos. Pan is about flying away from the ordinary.

Snow White *used* to be about fear. Now it’s about reading a film synopsis to a toddler.

And Alice…

I really like the newer Alice ride. It was overall a great upgrade, but it came at a cost. The original Alice ride was about feeling lost and disoriented, and boy, did it deliver on that level by throwing the film script away and exaggerating specific imagery from the movie that created the desired nightmarish effect. The new ride faithfully (almost) follows the film, and the escape from the Queen back into daylight is supposed to represent waking up. Everything that follows is whimsical bonus material dictated by the ride’s weird layout. Any complaints I have about loss of weirdness and fear pale in light of the fact that the current ride is very popular, really fun, and does succeed by switching its theme to focus on the film’s humor.

In its current form, Pinocchio doesn’t quite work and is generally regarded as the weakest FL dark ride; the one to skip if you’re pressed for time. It needs to lean more toward either being a straight retelling or really running with your interpretation and replace the dull moments with more exciting events that aren’t restricted to the movie’s version of events.

But in the meantime, yes, I’m grateful that it exists and has not yet been turned into “Elsa’s Magical Dream Enchantment.”
 
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britain

Well-Known Member
We’re all overthinking this as all theme park fans do. Tony Baxter created a fine ride. But there are reasons it doesn’t stick in guest’s memories as a must-do repeat experience.

And I think there are two main reasons for this:

1) There’s a bit too much emphasis on atmosphere and build-up; just enough to make it feel slow, repetitive and (ironically) lifeless.

2) It tries to have its cake and eat it too. If it’s a book report, include the ending. Don’t make it so literal right up to the finale and then change gears. If it’s—as you say—a ride meant to concentrate on theme, then run with it and don’t be constrained by the film plot.

This is why the original dark rides were so effective and why Pan and Toad are so still much fun. Toad is about chaos. Pan is about flying away from the ordinary.

Snow White *used* to be about fear. Now it’s about reading a film synopsis to a toddler.

And Alice…

I really like the newer Alice ride. It was overall a great upgrade, but it came at a cost. The original Alice ride was about feeling lost and disoriented, and boy, did it deliver on that level by throwing the film script away and exaggerating specific imagery from the movie that created the desired nightmarish effect. The new ride faithfully (almost) follows the film, and the escape from the Queen back into daylight is supposed to represent waking up. Everything that follows is whimsical bonus material dictated by the ride’s weird layout. Any complaints I have about loss of weirdness and fear pale in light of the fact that the current ride is very popular, really fun, and does succeed by switching its theme to focus on the film’s humor.

In its current form, Pinocchio doesn’t quite work and is generally regarded as the weakest FL dark ride; the one to skip if you’re pressed for time. It needs to lean more toward either being a straight retelling or really running with your interpretation and replace the dull moments with more exciting events that aren’t restricted to the movie’s version of events.

But in the meantime, yes, I’m grateful that it exists and has not yet been turned into “Elsa’s Magical Dream Enchantment.”

I think Pinocchio’s Daring Journey best filled the “The Scary Ride for Kids that are too afraid of Snow White” niche. Now that Snow is a lot less scary, Pinocchio might take top spot for scares.

I love PDJ, it would be my favorite ride there if it weren’t for the visceral joy of flight in Pan. But the detail and artistry in PDJ is the best in all of Fantasyland.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Pinocchio is more popular than folks believe. I heard guests coming off the ride declare how much they love it many times. Queue wait times aren’t necessarily linked to popularity, but Pinocchio’s queue was consistently full when I worked at the park, and still is, from my more recent experiences. Lastly, of all the dark rides guests would request for me to purposefully break down so they could walk through the attraction (yes, this actually happened), Pinocchio got the most request, by far.
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
Nobody wants a FEA clone. That ride is the definition of shoehorned drek. The “plot” is “You’re going to see Elsa! You’re so lucky! Here’s Elsa! Let it go, everyone! Hey, Olaf, sing that song about summer! The End!”

They should tick off WDW fans by making DL’s ride: “Elsa and Anna present Maelstrom, a Viking Voyage though Norway’s Past.”
I don't want FEA, PERIOD.
 

Rich T

Well-Known Member
Pinocchio is more popular than folks believe. I heard guests coming off the ride declare how much they love it many times. Queue wait times aren’t necessarily linked to popularity, but Pinocchio’s queue was consistently full when I worked at the park, and still is, from my more recent experiences. Lastly, of all the dark rides guests would request for me to purposefully break down so they could walk through the attraction (yes, this actually happened), Pinocchio got the most request, by far.
I would have loved to have gotten a chance to walk through any of the dark rides! You’ve had awesome behind the scenes experiences while working at DL!

I haven’t been to DL on a regular basis in a long time, and barely at all since the beginning the vlogging era, so I’m sure crowd patterns have changed. During my frequent visits in the 80’s and 90’s, Pinocchio was usually a short wait or walk-on, but I’ve always thought that was mainly due to the ride’s location; somehow it seems easy to overlook.

I’ve always enjoyed the Pinocchio ride, but even since my very first ride in 1983, I’ve felt that there’s s lot of meandering in spots where you’re just looking at painted flats for several seconds. Beautifully painted flats, to be sure. And the workshop finale, as charming and logical as it is, just feels like an awkward silence… in the flow of… the ride’s … storytelling conversation? Someone oughta slam me in the face with a pie right now.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
I’m astonished they’re not putting an expensive Pinocchio remake starring Tom Hanks into theaters. I’m thinking either the film isn’t testing well or they’re just incredibly stupid.

Anyone who wants to see this movie would already be a subscriber.
Disney actually was planning on giving the Pinocchio remake a theatrical release, but due to the 2019 Dumbo remake bombing and COVID-19. They made it exclusive to Disney+ as a result.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
The current model is remakes/sequels of older films (princesses notwithstanding) go to Disney+ to boost the originals list there (Hocus Pocus 2, Disenchanted, Sister Act 3 also fall under this umbrella). I think Disney understands that live action remakes of Lady and the Tramp and Pinocchio aren't going to set the box office on fire, but IMO, not putting Hocus 2 in theaters is a mistake and leaving money on the table. Mermaid, Snow White and Hercules will all be theatrical releases.
Or because the Dumbo remake bombed during the production of the Pinocchio remake. Causing them to move it's original theatrical release to streaming only.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
I see nothing wrong with that. The ride is about running away from home and the panic that sets in when the world is scary, not about his desire to be a real boy. A Lion King ride that a was a rafting adventure through the Elephant Graveyard chase or a Just Can't Wait to be King themed darkride would be a blast, I don't need King Simba to show up if the ride isn't about that.

Alice never shows Alice waking up. Snow White didn't show Snow passing out or waking up for decades because the ride was about escaping the Witch. Now, its a messy attraction that lost its identity. Recreating movie moments is generally not a great way to go for darkrides. Its a different medium. Pinocchio becoming a real boys has nothing to do with the story they chose to tell in the medium of a theme park attraction.
I actually totally agree with you in theory - I just think in the case of Pinocchio that moment misses the mark in this regard. I don't think the ride does enough to tell you you're following a new story until you get to the end.

I can't imagine most people get off Pinocchio after seeing he didn't turn into a real boy and think "well, if you notice, they were telling a different story the whole time". More likely people who notice probably think "Wait, he didn't turn into a real boy? That's weird." Especially since most of the dark rides don't make that kind of edit - it's one thing to just omit moments of the movie that don't contribute to the feel of the ride, the way Snow White did for so long by skipping her death and her rescue, or to condense story beats the way they do with the Queen's transformation. But with Pinocchio they're playing out that exact scene from the movie, only with a major, overarching element excluded for seemingly arbitrary reasons.

In fact, the ride follows the events of the movie really pretty faithfully up until the finale - It would be very easy to mistake the ride for just following the movie because nothing in the first 90% of the ride deviates enough to telegraph we're charting a different version of the story. The last scene is the first beat of the ride's story that differs significantly from the movie, which I think is too little too late. It feels more like an accident or shortcut than a meaningful choice.

I don't think the impact ride would be significantly lessened by having Pinocchio turn into a real boy. I'm sure there are plenty people already who don't look close enough to notice he isn't a real boy at the end. I'm all for wanting to tell a different story with the ride or streamlining to focus on specific themes, but I don't think Pinocchio's Daring Journey does that well enough to justify the deviation at the end. If they wanted to revise the earlier parts of the ride to make sense of that moment at the end, I suppose I'd be open to that. Though after seeing the changes to Snow White I can't imagine that's the kind of change they would make these days.
 

D.Silentu

Well-Known Member
Perhaps because in the ride he spends the whole time screwing around and doesn't save his father, he didn't earn the chance to become a real boy.
 

Rich T

Well-Known Member
Perhaps because in the ride he spends the whole time screwing around and doesn't save his father, he didn't earn the chance to become a real boy.
Ok, I’ve got a new instant, easy fix! After the current Monstro scene, in the village, add a motionless figure of Pinocchio wearing a Pleasure Island t-shirt, slumped unconscious beside the Toyshop’s door, holding a half-smoked cigar and a bottle of whiskey.

You enter the toy shop and see the Blue Fairy shaking her head in disgust. Then just add new dialogue for the otherwise unchanged reunion scene:

Gepetto: I can’t think of a good enough punishment!

Pinocchio: You’re not the boss of me!

Inconsistency resolved! 😃
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
I actually totally agree with you in theory - I just think in the case of Pinocchio that moment misses the mark in this regard. I don't think the ride does enough to tell you you're following a new story until you get to the end.

I can't imagine most people get off Pinocchio after seeing he didn't turn into a real boy and think "well, if you notice, they were telling a different story the whole time". More likely people who notice probably think "Wait, he didn't turn into a real boy? That's weird." Especially since most of the dark rides don't make that kind of edit - it's one thing to just omit moments of the movie that don't contribute to the feel of the ride, the way Snow White did for so long by skipping her death and her rescue, or to condense story beats the way they do with the Queen's transformation. But with Pinocchio they're playing out that exact scene from the movie, only with a major, overarching element excluded for seemingly arbitrary reasons.

In fact, the ride follows the events of the movie really pretty faithfully up until the finale - It would be very easy to mistake the ride for just following the movie because nothing in the first 90% of the ride deviates enough to telegraph we're charting a different version of the story. The last scene is the first beat of the ride's story that differs significantly from the movie, which I think is too little too late. It feels more like an accident or shortcut than a meaningful choice.

I don't think the impact ride would be significantly lessened by having Pinocchio turn into a real boy. I'm sure there are plenty people already who don't look close enough to notice he isn't a real boy at the end. I'm all for wanting to tell a different story with the ride or streamlining to focus on specific themes, but I don't think Pinocchio's Daring Journey does that well enough to justify the deviation at the end. If they wanted to revise the earlier parts of the ride to make sense of that moment at the end, I suppose I'd be open to that. Though after seeing the changes to Snow White I can't imagine that's the kind of change they would make these days.

The ride starts off with him singing Hi-Diddlee-Dee, an Actor's Life for Me! He's not singing I've Got No Strings. The very first scene is a deviation from the source material. The ride is telling us that we are running away to be performers.

None of the original FL darkrides or the 80's updates/add-ons were faithful recreations of the film. That's why they were successful. The problem is audiences are too stupid nowadays. "Why doesn't Snow White have a proper ending? Why can't we see her kissing the Prince?" Ummm...where did you see the Prince introduced in the ride? Where did we see her go unconcious? Why would you think the ride is about her journey to be a princess when almost every element is dedicated to her being watched and pursued by the evil Queen/Witch. The ride had a great ending, the Witch died. The end.

Toad is a madcap nightmare ending in Hell. Snow White was an escape from an evil Witch ending in her demise. Peter Pan is a whimsical adventure of flight with a pretty weak ending for a darkride. Alice in Wonderland is a fun-house with multiple levels and gags ending in an explosion. Pinocchio is a desire to leave home and then racing back once you realize the comfort it brings. It has a perfect ending now. Pinocchio is alive and well and reunited with his family. He learned his lesson.

I don't need the Tea Party scene from AIW to replaced with Alice waking up under a tree. Or Toad's Hell sequence replaced with him showing the deed to Toad Hall and proving his innocence. Disney used to elevate their audiences beyond their artistic desires. Now, it stoops to make sure rides appeal to the lowest common denominator. "Look, its Rocket the Racoon like in da movie! I like movies! Weeeeee!" Who needs well-crafted attractions, AA's, and storytelling when you can just have the cast of whatever film record some footage to throw on a projection screen?
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
The ride starts off with him singing Hi-Diddlee-Dee, an Actor's Life for Me! He's not singing I've Got No Strings. The very first scene is a deviation from the source material. The ride is telling us that we are running away to be performers.

None of the original FL darkrides or the 80's updates/add-ons were faithful recreations of the film. That's why they were successful. The problem is audiences are too stupid nowadays. "Why doesn't Snow White have a proper ending? Why can't we see her kissing the Prince?" Ummm...where did you see the Prince introduced in the ride? Where did we see her go unconcious? Why would you think the ride is about her journey to be a princess when almost every element is dedicated to her being watched and pursued by the evil Queen/Witch. The ride had a great ending, the Witch died. The end.

Toad is a madcap nightmare ending in Hell. Snow White was an escape from an evil Witch ending in her demise. Peter Pan is a whimsical adventure of flight with a pretty weak ending for a darkride. Alice in Wonderland is a fun-house with multiple levels and gags ending in an explosion. Pinocchio is a desire to leave home and then racing back once you realize the comfort it brings. It has a perfect ending now. Pinocchio is alive and well and reunited with his family. He learned his lesson.

I don't need the Tea Party scene from AIW to replaced with Alice waking up under a tree. Or Toad's Hell sequence replaced with him showing the deed to Toad Hall and proving his innocence. Disney used to elevate their audiences beyond their artistic desires. Now, it stoops to make sure rides appeal to the lowest common denominator. "Look, its Rocket the Racoon like in da movie! I like movies! Weeeeee!" Who needs well-crafted attractions, AA's, and storytelling when you can just have the cast of whatever film record some footage to throw on a projection screen?
Wow, you seem really ready to jump down my throat about a lot of things I didn't say.

Wanna reread my post and try again?
 

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