Frozen at Disney's Hollywood Studios for the summer?

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Nonsense. It absolutely gives people choices. I choose IASW over Peter Pan all of the time because of Peter Pan's wait times (therefore also lowering Pan's wait times because it's one less family riding it).

I have other things to do at MK. There's little else to ride at DHS for a family with two small children.
The Magic Kingdom has 4 times as many rides as DHS, that's a horrible example. You can skip Peter Pan because of it's line and there are plenty of options in the MK with shorter lines. Those options are few and far between at DHS. Choices are a good thing, but you're going to need a lot more than 1 or 2 rides at DHS to see the wait times drop significantly at Toy Story. I also suspect you would not see the wait times cut by a 3rd if a 3rd track is added. The assumption is that not everyone that wants to ride Toy Story is currently riding Toy Story.
 

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
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The Magic Kingdom has 4 times as many rides as DHS, that's a horrible example. You can skip Peter Pan because of it's line and there are plenty of options in the MK with shorter lines. Those options are few and far between at DHS. Choices are a good thing, but you're going to need a lot more than 1 or 2 rides at DHS to see the wait times drop significantly at Toy Story. I also suspect you would not see the wait times cut by a 3rd if a 3rd track is added. The assumption is that not everyone that wants to ride Toy Story is currently riding Toy Story.

Okay, so following your logic, rather than give people at least a few options let's give them no options. Perfect Disney logic.

I think you'd be surprised how much a similar ride or two would cut into the TSMM wait times. It'd still have significant wait times, but not nearly what it has now.

TSMM is also suffering from "new kid on the block" syndrome. Just like TLM and SWMT at MK, eventually those wait times will drop (but only if there are new attractions).

In a perfect world they'd do both certainly. But that plot of real estate can only be used for one thing. Personally, I'd rather have a new attraction rather than just more of the same.

But hey, that costs money so we know that won't happen.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
You're kinda making my point for me now. There are no other options at DHS. That's why you need more rides. Having more rides gives people like me (and there are a lot of us APers out there) more choices.

Right now, us Annual Passholders get FastPasses for TSMM because it's the only family ride at DHS.

But, if you make more rides, we don't get that FastPass for TSMM, We get it for Monsters Inc, or Incredibles, or Ratatouille, or whatever, therefore alleviating wait times on TSMM.
The below are assumptions, but think of them more in concepts as opposed to definitive #s.

Toy Story has an hourly capacity of 1100. 70% of which is devoted to Fastpass (770). The park is open 10 hours a day, so 11000 people can ride per day.
7700 ride using Fastpass+ and wait <15 minutes
3300 ride using Standby and wait 45-90 minutes
The park has an average daily attendance of 27,700
27.8% of park guests get to ride Toy Story with less than a 15 minute wait
11.9% of park guests get to ride Toy Story with a wait of 45-90 minutes
60.3% of park guests DO NOT get to ride Toy Story. It is safe to assume that some percentage of the 60.3% of guests wish to ride Toy Story, but probably didn't get or didn't know about Fastpass+ and were unwilling to wait whatever the Standby Wait time was. In many cases, people have a breaking point. Someone might be willing to wait 45 minutes, but not 60.

If you add additional attractions to the park, it doesn't affect the capacity of Toy Story, but may increase the daily attendance. The new attraction may take Fastpass+ demand away from Toy Story, but currently there is more than enough additional demand of guests that likely want Fastpass+, but it isn't available. Adding capacity helps that much more directly.

If you add a 3rd track, hourly capacity is increased to 1650 (in theory it could be higher as the third track very well may not be ADA compliant so it may load faster).16,500 a day.
11,550 ride using Fastpass+ and wait <15 minutes
4,950 ride using Standby and wait is unknown
The park has an average daily attendance of 27,700 (No new attractions, no new demand, yes it's an assumption, but it would be hard to attribute an attendance increase solely to this type of addition)
41.7% of park guests get to ride Toy Story with less than a 15 minute wait
17.9% of park guests get to ride Toy Story using Standby
40.4% of park guests DO NOT get to ride Toy Story. That # is far more favorable.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Okay, so following your logic, rather than give people at least a few options let's give them no options. Perfect Disney logic.

I think you'd be surprised how much a similar ride or two would cut into the TSMM wait times. It'd still have significant wait times, but not nearly what it has now.

TSMM is also suffering from "new kid on the block" syndrome. Just like TLM and SWMT at MK, eventually those wait times will drop (but only if there are new attractions).

In a perfect world they'd do both certainly. But that plot of real estate can only be used for one thing. Personally, I'd rather have a new attraction rather than just more of the same.

But hey, that costs money so we know that won't happen.
I would also rather have new attractions, but there are certain attractions whose capacity is a problem. Toy Story is one of them, and this addresses it.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
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I think you'd be surprised how much a similar ride or two would cut into the TSMM wait times. It'd still have significant wait times, but not nearly what it has now.
I think you'd be surprised how little of an effect on TSMM a new attraction would have.
 

CDavid

Well-Known Member
TSMM is not popular simply because it's at a park with few attractions. It's popular because it appeals to most everyone and most everyone likes it. Opening new attractions won't change that.
All the new rides have to accomplish is to give guests greater choices so that Midway Mania is not so overwhelmed and thus crowds are more evenly distributed. Again, when touring a theme park - like most things in life - people make choices; You usually don't get absolutely everything you want, or get to ride every last attraction at a park.

But everyone who wanted/expected to ride TSMM but were unable to would still be disappointed they didn't get to experience it.
That fact will remain true even after the capacity has been increased. The core problem is simply too few attractions. You can't solve the problem of too few attractions by putting more people through the handful of rides you already have; That does nothing to address the real issue, which can only be solved by actually building more attractions. That concept shouldn't be rocket science.

And you can't arbitrarily assume that new attractions will lower demand for TSMM.
I'm not. That fact is aptly demonstrated in other parks, like the Magic Kingdom and even Disney's California Adventure, where visitors have greater choice in park experiences. Note, however, that doesn't mean there aren't attractions in those parks with long waits and which can't accommodate everyone.

This analogy doesn't work at all. People didn't want to stay at the Contemporary because it was the contemporary. They wanted to stay there because it was a disney hotel. They wanted the convenience, experience, and piece of mind of staying on disney property. Disney satisfied that demand.
You can't have it both ways, suggesting that theme is critical to guests' choosing an attraction (TSMM) in a theme park yet doesn't matter when choosing lodging (where they'll spend far more time). The fact that people are willing to pay extra for Pirate or Royal rooms at Caribbean Beach and Riverside supports the idea that theme does in fact matter. If all guests cared about was "the convenience, experience, and piece of mind of staying on disney property" then a plain, unthemed on-property hotel (Hotel Plaza) would be just as popular as the Contemporary or All-Star Resorts. But they aren't (even at a far lower price!).

But you are not a typical WDW guest. You've been to wdw before probably many times and you've already been on PPF, also probably many times.
The "typical" (at least domestic) Walt Disney World guest has also been there before and will probably visit again (note DVC). For a once in a lifetime trip, such as to Tokyo, even staying a couple weeks most people realize they aren't going to be able to see everything. If you devoted extra time to the Disney parks you are passing up on other, very worthwhile experiences while in Japan. Journey to the Center of the Earth may be nice, but given that you at least have theme park rides back home, wouldn't you be far more upset over all the things you missed outside the parks, and unlike Disney, will never see again?

A similar situation holds true for central Florida, for occasional and one-time visitors. Repeat guests will eventually get around to more, although after over 30 trips I've personally yet to come close to seeing everything.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
For a once in a lifetime trip, such as to Tokyo, even staying a couple weeks most people realize they aren't going to be able to see everything. If you devoted extra time to the Disney parks you are passing up on other, very worthwhile experiences while in Japan. Journey to the Center of the Earth may be nice, but given that you at least have theme park rides back home, wouldn't you be far more upset over all the things you missed outside the parks, and unlike Disney, will never see again?
None on that level. If I ever get to Japan nothing's stopping me from getting on that ride, NOTHING :)
 

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
The below are assumptions, but think of them more in concepts as opposed to definitive #s.

Toy Story has an hourly capacity of 1100. 70% of which is devoted to Fastpass (770). The park is open 10 hours a day, so 11000 people can ride per day.
7700 ride using Fastpass+ and wait <15 minutes
3300 ride using Standby and wait 45-90 minutes
The park has an average daily attendance of 27,700
27.8% of park guests get to ride Toy Story with less than a 15 minute wait
11.9% of park guests get to ride Toy Story with a wait of 45-90 minutes
60.3% of park guests DO NOT get to ride Toy Story. It is safe to assume that some percentage of the 60.3% of guests wish to ride Toy Story, but probably didn't get or didn't know about Fastpass+ and were unwilling to wait whatever the Standby Wait time was. In many cases, people have a breaking point. Someone might be willing to wait 45 minutes, but not 60.

If you add additional attractions to the park, it doesn't affect the capacity of Toy Story, but may increase the daily attendance. The new attraction may take Fastpass+ demand away from Toy Story, but currently there is more than enough additional demand of guests that likely want Fastpass+, but it isn't available. Adding capacity helps that much more directly.

If you add a 3rd track, hourly capacity is increased to 1650 (in theory it could be higher as the third track very well may not be ADA compliant so it may load faster).16,500 a day.
11,550 ride using Fastpass+ and wait <15 minutes
4,950 ride using Standby and wait is unknown
The park has an average daily attendance of 27,700 (No new attractions, no new demand, yes it's an assumption, but it would be hard to attribute an attendance increase solely to this type of addition)
41.7% of park guests get to ride Toy Story with less than a 15 minute wait
17.9% of park guests get to ride Toy Story using Standby
40.4% of park guests DO NOT get to ride Toy Story. That # is far more favorable.

If you don't think adding another attraction wouldn't also bring down the demand for TSMM by 15-20% as well, then I can't continue to argue.

It doesn't mean that those people don't WANT to ride TSMM, it only means it isn't their priority any more and people would now have choices and the crowds would be distributed amongst two attractions instead of one.

And your numbers would assume that everyone who comes through the turnstiles wants to ride TSMM. I'd bet probably 20% don't want to.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Okay, so following your logic, rather than give people at least a few options let's give them no options. Perfect Disney logic.

I think you'd be surprised how much a similar ride or two would cut into the TSMM wait times. It'd still have significant wait times, but not nearly what it has now.

TSMM is also suffering from "new kid on the block" syndrome. Just like TLM and SWMT at MK, eventually those wait times will drop (but only if there are new attractions).

In a perfect world they'd do both certainly. But that plot of real estate can only be used for one thing. Personally, I'd rather have a new attraction rather than just more of the same.

But hey, that costs money so we know that won't happen.
New Kid on the Block?! Its a FIVE YEAR OLD ATTRACTION. Its not new..... smdmfh....
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I think he just meant it's the newest one. The fact a five year old ride is the newest ride at the park is still pretty sad though when compared to how little was done in the other parks as well.
Its the only RIDE kids can go on in that park. Thats why. Capacity, while an issue, isnt the largest reason for there being a billion long person line.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
If you don't think adding another attraction wouldn't also bring down the demand for TSMM by 15-20% as well, then I can't continue to argue.

It doesn't mean that those people don't WANT to ride TSMM, it only means it isn't their priority any more and people would now have choices and the crowds would be distributed amongst two attractions instead of one.

And your numbers would assume that everyone who comes through the turnstiles wants to ride TSMM. I'd bet probably 20% don't want to.
TSMM is a horrible ride IMO...but for people who like it it has a high re-ridability factor. A lot of that added capacity will go toward rerides
 

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
they are all 'attractions' and they all help to cycle butts through the park... without them, there would only be 5 'attractions' in the park. and there is no need to be biased... moving or non-moving you are still at WDW at an attraction
 

FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member
If anything is done in this park in addition to Star Wars it needs to be Pixar Place expansion. Preferably with rides with higher capacity than TSMM.
Pixar Place is just a ridiculous waste, has been since it opened and will continue to be so if Disney do replicate the one attraction it has rather than capitalise on the popularity of the other brilliant films in the Pixar library.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
they are all 'attractions' and they all help to cycle butts through the park... without them, there would only be 5 'attractions' in the park. and there is no need to be biased... moving or non-moving you are still at WDW at an attraction
Disney can use whatever terminology they want to lump everything together but a ride is still a ride and a show is still a show.
 

raymusiccity

Well-Known Member
Disney can use whatever terminology they want to lump everything together but a ride is still a ride and a show is still a show.
Just a brief interlude while we return to the original thread:

Any word if 'Frozen Fireworks' will be extended as well, or just the 'Frozen Sing Along' ?

We're also hoping that the 'Ice Men' musical group will be invited back as well.

Thanks !
 
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