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Frozen at Disney's Hollywood Studios for the summer?

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
But people would still want to ride toy story mania. The attraction simply does not have enough capacity to meet demand. A new attraction would give guests something else to do but they would still want to ride TSMM.

The difference in DCA is not that there are more attractions to experience. It is the (much) higher percentage if repeat guests who are less (not) interested in experiencing every attraction.


Absolutely. No one is saying TSMM wouldn't remain popular.

However, if you take 25% of the people waiting for TSMM and spread them out to another attraction, you're doing exactly what adding a third track would do AND you're giving the park a much needed new family attraction.

So what? We're going to have a Pixar Place with one attraction? Lame.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Absolutely. No one is saying TSMM wouldn't remain popular.

However, if you take 25% of the people waiting for TSMM and spread them out to another attraction, you're doing exactly what adding a third track would do AND you're giving the park a much needed new family attraction.

So what? We're going to have a Pixar Place with one attraction? Lame.
Adding more attractions to a park that is sparse on attractions doesn't cause guests to skip rides, it causes guests to stay longer in the park.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
However, if you take 25% of the people waiting for TSMM and spread them out to another attraction, you're doing exactly what adding a third track would do.
Except that's not what would happen. There would still be the same number of people waiting for toy story mania. In fact, possibly even more due to increased park attendance driven by the new attractions.
 

CDavid

Well-Known Member
But people would still want to ride toy story mania. The attraction simply does not have enough capacity to meet demand. A new attraction would give guests something else to do but they would still want to ride TSMM.

The difference in DCA is not that there are more attractions to experience. It is the (much) higher percentage if repeat guests who are less (not) interested in experiencing every attraction.
Not every Hollywood Studios guest wants to experience every attraction either, but they don't have much else to choose from. That's the problem. The difference at DCA lies not in repeat guests, but in having a multitude and variety of (mostly) quality experiences to distribute crowds. The Studios park arguably lacks both.

Adding more attractions to a park that is sparse on attractions doesn't cause guests to skip rides, it causes guests to stay longer in the park.
Wait, I thought guests staying longer in the park (and hopefully spending more money) was a good thing, at least from Disney's perspective. In a sense, Midway Mania (TSMM) does not actually have the capacity problem. Rather, the rest of the park is literally missing the capacity to draw people away from TSMM, simply for lack of other things to do.

There would still be the same number of people waiting for toy story mania.
You cannot just arbitrarily make that assumption. Nor can we simply assume that increased capacity will substantially reduce wait times (potentially, shorter lines could produce increased demand).

People are on many different agendas when touring the park. A second attraction, roughly equal in popularity to Midway Mania and with similar wait times, may well lead to some guests choosing one ride over the other. Most guests pick-and-choose attractions to some extent anyway. With a sufficient number of varied experiences, people just don't have time for everything - which leads us back to the real problem, and the proper solution, that the park simply needs more to do.

Many years ago, the Contemporary Resort was essentially booked solid year round. Not everyone who wanted to stay in the resort could be accommodated. But the solution was not to build a second (or third) Contemporary; Instead they built Caribbean Beach, The Grand Floridian, and all the others. Suddenly, the Contemporary wasn't booked up anymore, and you could often get rooms the day of arrival.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
Not every Hollywood Studios guest wants to experience every attraction either, but they don't have much else to choose from. That's the problem. The difference at DCA lies not in repeat guests, but in having a multitude and variety of (mostly) quality experiences to distribute crowds. The Studios park arguably lacks both.
Not every guest wants to experience every attraction. Some things don't appeal to everyone. Some things restrict certain guests based on health, age or height. However toy story mania is an attraction based on a highly popular film franchise. And can be experienced by virtually everyone. TSMM is not popular simply because it's at a park with few attractions. It's popular because it appeals to most everyone and most everyone likes it. Opening new attractions won't change that. People WILL still want to ride it.

And yes, the repeat guest factor does play a huge part. Guests who are visiting DHS for the first and sometimes only time are not going to want to miss a major attraction. At WDW there is a much higher percentage of first and once in a lifetime guests. DCA on the other hand is largely repeat guests, annual pass holders and locals.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
In a sense, Midway Mania (TSMM) does not actually have the capacity problem. Rather, the rest of the park is literally missing the capacity to draw people away from TSMM, simply for lack of other things to do.
TSMM does have a capacity problem. Which is why they have experimented with different loading techniques over the years to try any way possible to increase it slightly.

If there were more attractions in the park guests would obviously have other things to ride. But everyone who wanted/expected to ride TSMM but were unable to would still be disappointed they didn't get to experience it. If demand is greater than the supply ( which it is) Why wouldn't you do what you can to increase supply and satisfy that demand.

Again this is not to say they shouldn't add new attractions. They can and should do both.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
You cannot just arbitrarily make that assumption. Nor can we simply assume that increased capacity will substantially reduce wait times (potentially, shorter lines could produce increased demand).
And you can't arbitrarily assume that new attractions will lower demand for TSMM. It is far more likely that increased capacity at the attraction will lower it's wait time than adding a new major attraction that increases park attendance. Like I've said before it's not like people are riding TSMM multiple times because they have nothing else to do in the park. Most guests are lucky to get on it once.

You are correct that increasing capacity may not decrease wait times. The threshold for what guests are willing to wait will likely remain the same so average wait times will possibly not change. However, the point is that more guests will be able to experience the attraction. Thus less guests will leave disappointed that they were unable to ride. Which is the entire point.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
People are on many different agendas when touring the park. A second attraction, roughly equal in popularity to Midway Mania and with similar wait times, may well lead to some guests choosing one ride over the other. Most guests pick-and-choose attractions to some extent anyway. With a sufficient number of varied experiences, people just don't have time for everything - which leads us back to the real problem, and the proper solution, that the park simply needs more to do.
People don't have time for everything. And most things don't have time for all people. But most guests and certainly those visiting for the first or only time want to experience as much as they possibly can. Most people are not happy giving up one major attraction in favor of the other. They will want to do both. Look no further than how upset people are that they cannot get a fastpass for both soarin and test track.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
Many years ago, the Contemporary Resort was essentially booked solid year round. Not everyone who wanted to stay in the resort could be accommodated. But the solution was not to build a second (or third) Contemporary; Instead they built Caribbean Beach, The Grand Floridian, and all the others. Suddenly, the Contemporary wasn't booked up anymore, and you could often get rooms the day of arrival.
This analogy doesn't work at all. People didn't want to stay at the Contemporary because it was the contemporary. They wanted to stay there because it was a disney hotel. They wanted the convenience, experience, and piece of mind of staying on disney property. Disney satisfied that demand.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Here's a thought.... maybe if they built stuff right the first time, we wouldnt have these problems.
They underestimated Toy Story's popularity. More importantly, they underestimated the need for family friendly dark rides in that park and 6 years later have failed to catch up. I know I've argued both sides of this, but Star Tours 2.0 did nothing to help Toy Story's capacity. It's nothing against Star Tours, but an upgrade over what was there previously had no positive effect on Toy Story's crowds.
 

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
This analogy doesn't work at all. People didn't want to stay at the Contemporary because it was the contemporary. They wanted to stay there because it was a disney hotel. They wanted the convenience, experience, and piece of mind of staying on disney property. Disney satisfied that demand.
But keeping with that analogy, how many people want to experience TSMM because it's Toy Story or a ride-through video game or whatever? They want to ride it because it's a pretty well-done attraction that the entire family can experience in a park that's full of things designed for a fragmented family (teens to the thrill rides, young kids to the character shows, adults to the edutainment stuff, etc)

I would argue that TSMM would be just as popular if it had a different theme or (heaven forbid!) no character tie-ins at all. It's a fun attraction, but the Toy Story connection on the ride itself is pretty tenuous. Yes, there is a subset of people who want to ride it simply because of Toy Story, just like there are people who want to stay at any given hotel because of its specific theme, but most do it because its an underrepresented type of ride in its park
 

space42

Well-Known Member
This analogy doesn't work at all. People didn't want to stay at the Contemporary because it was the contemporary. They wanted to stay there because it was a disney hotel. They wanted the convenience, experience, and piece of mind of staying on disney property. Disney satisfied that demand.

Actually - for me - that is a perfect analogy. Some people ride TSMM because there are ONLY 5 RIDES IN THE PARK :)
If there were more family friendly rides , there would be at least one less person in line for TSMM (that would be me). Park needs more rides, period. Even if they added 5 more tracks to TSMM it doesn't solve that fundamental flaw. This is why I hope the rumors of the makeover are true and that there will be NEW rides and NOT replacements. This park needs at least 3 more headliner and 6 smaller scale attractions ASAP. Same goes for DAK. Two additional attractions and a nighttime show do not make it a full day either...