From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

[MereMickey]

I don't have any personal knowledge of the procedures, but the news reports were saying that Disney did have an active system in place to monitor and remove gators if they got too close to areas near guests.

They do have procedures that have been in place for a very long time. Basically, when a gator needs to be removed they have to euthanize them. They can not relocate them because they are just like mice… they just keep finding their way back no matter what. I can tell you this though (and this is in no way saying the said family that is being talked about did this, because there is no indication they were), guests in Disney tend to get stupid towards the wildlife. Not all, but I have seen some pretty terrible behaviors that I feel have encouraged the animals to not be afraid of humans. I think we can all remember a time or and place within WDW seeing guests feeding the ducks that have made the parks their homes underneath any outdoor food area. I can even remember being bad myself throwing them pieces of bread. I know that isn't cool, but I have done it. I will say I have never feed anything swimming or near the water though. That is asking for trouble in my opinion. The deer around WDW are not even scared of people anymore. They will come right up to people expecting morsels of food. I can not imagine the gators haven't gone unnoticed to guests in terms of feeding them. I think the gators have noticed if they stick closer to the areas where guests frequent they may be thrown something, thus making themselves more comfortable along the shoreline. So unfortunate. Nature and nurture certainly played a factor here. Once again, I do not believe the family was doing this when the child was pulled in. Being near or in the water regardless of depth was just opportunity the gator was waiting for. *shivers*

 

[GoofGoof]

But with the number of people feeling like there reports were blown off, is it something all the CMs know or is it a case of, "if the right CM at the resort hears about it they call the Wildlife team that handles them. If the wrong CM's knows, or they aren't instructed to take reports seriously then it falls through a crack."

My Mom had this situation all the time, over a much less serious matter: the pressed coin machines. My Dad and I collect them, so when she worked in an area that had them, she got to know the outside people responsible for maintaining them. When they got jammed she called the number, and they would be out in a few hours or the next day. But she was the only person in her area that knew the procedure or cared enough to follow it. And the person shared that was often the case throughout property. They would come across broken machines all the time, that they weren't notified were broken.

I have no idea what the procedures are to handle an alligator siting. I would assume front line CMs are not supposed to handle the situation themselves. They have animal experts to deal with it. I don't have enough knowledge of the process or training to know whether all CMs are properly trained and informed who to call. Whenever a tragedy like this occurs a lot of people want to be "part of the story". I don't put a lot of stock into "witnesses" who come out and claim that they reported an issue and it wasn't taken seriously. How do they even know that the CM they told didn't follow their training and report the issue to the proper people? Maybe part of the training is to casually call in the gator siting and not cause a scene or upset guests. Again, just pure speculation on my part.

 

[Baltar]

If Disney had a strong case they wouldn't be adding signs. Other hotels have them Disney didn't and the big guestion will be why didn't they have them. I don't see Disney coming up with a good answer to that question.

The reason why they are adding the signs is obvious: now that an attack was happened, not putting up a sign would make them guilty of negligence under Florida law if another attack occurred.

 

[ford91exploder]

Would be interesting to see them try to confiscate a phone. I don't think that would go well for Disney.

Cops do it all the time It's not legal in most cases but ...

 

[R W B]

Would be interesting to see them try to confiscate a phone. I don't think that would go well for Disney.

Agree 100%.

Cops do it all the time It's not legal in most cases but ...

Cast Members are not cops... If you don't have a law enforecment badge and try to take my phone without my permission, things will get ugly plain and simple.

 

[ford91exploder]

Agree 100%.
Cast Members are not cops... If you don't have a law enforecment badge and try to take my phone without my permission, things will get ugly plain and simple.

Recall that Disney has at least a few CM's who are Cops, And a larger contingent of Disney Security who THINK they are Cops.

 

[R W B]

Recall that Disney has at least a few CM's who are Cops, And a larger contingent of Disney Security who THINK they are Cops.

I'm not sure about your first statement, I mean details officers are all over but they're still real cops. Yea, those security guards are a trip. Let me make it clear though, I don't have issues with security guards, they have a job to do and I respect it. I'm sure some of them are retired or ex police too.

 

[thomas998]

That's not how the law works although it may seem like it from tv or movies.

The parents have an extremely weak case against Disney if this ever actually went to court. But Disney will settle quietly to get good PR and get this incident off the news as quickly as possible.

You've clearly never been in a court room. A dead child is a lawyers dream because the jury always wants to blame someone, and it doesn't really matter what the law says, even if Disney were 100% in the right an over zealous lawyer on their side can put off enough jurors that they would still lose. You sound like someone that thinks justice prevails. I haven't practiced law in over 20 years but I still remember several cases where "justice" didn't prevail.

 

[s8film40]

Recall that Disney has at least a few CM's who are Cops, And a larger contingent of Disney Security who THINK they are Cops.

Disney does not have CM that are cops. They pay OC to have extra officers posted on their property and there could be cops who work for Disney in unrelated jobs part time but neither of those scenarios gives Disney the ability to order them to take someone's phone. Yes I agree there are plenty of people in security who do think they're cops but they would likely find themeselves unemployed and facing legal troubles if they assaulted someone and stole their phone.

 

[BigRedDad]

To put an end to this because there is precedence and law, Disney is protected by the Ferae Naturae Doctorine. It simply states that a property owner is not responsible for "wild animal" attacks in natural areas where the animals live. If a lawsuit is filed, immediate summary judgement would be granted by the judge and appeals court.

Now, this all falls through if the alligator was a pet or owned by Disney. Knowing alligators, this is not the case.

 

[ParentsOf4]

It might be a problem out of control due to people thinking feeding them is acceptable.

A local (Atlanta) PBS channel just rebroadcast a show on alligators. The relevant quote was:

"A fed alligator is a dead alligator."

People feeding alligators is a serious problem.

Alligators normally shy away from people but that by feeding them, these alligators become less afraid and have to be euthanized.

News accounts suggest that incidents of people feeding alligators at WDW have been on the rise over the last year, particularly pointing to the over-the-water bungalows at the Polynesian as an enabler.

It appears that this is a worsening problem which, along with the growing alligator population due to successful conservation efforts, probably explains why more tragedies like this have not happened in the past.

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

Yes this was a horrible accident, and yes the parents also have a duty of care. But we don't know what they knew about alligators on Disney property, or about not being allowed in the water. But Disney DID know, and they failed to communicate that information to their guests.
QUOTE]
No Swimming signs aside, is there anywhere that gators or other danger is mentioned to the resort guest either on check-in or buried in the small print of the paperwork that comes with booking ?

 

[DancingPhoenix]

So on the flip side of the legality stuff and going back and fourth on Disney and the parents and whatever else, I am a little disgusted by the amount of people potentially band wagon-ing for the media attention. So many articles popping up of random people who have seen alligators at Disney, and it feels so gross like they just want to "get in on it" or something? I mean it really adds nothing, it's just the media trying to keep the tragic gravy train moving so they can cash in on another horrible event. The guy who was attacked by the alligator in 1986 makes sense, but the ones about people having seen alligators on property and that being literally all the article is about? Ugh.
Working for Disney PR must be a nightmare, because like many have said people have this idea in their head that Disney really IS magic and bad things never happen. I can't imagine how much of a media circus the whole area around Orlando has been, I hope they leave soon

Also slightly unrelated but this bit from the article about "oh my gosh people actually die at Disney" made me so confused... how have I not heard of it before?

• In October 2014, a snake fell out of a tree onto a group of guests in a public area of the theme park and bit an 8-year-old. The boy's grandmother suffered cardiac arrest and died soon afterwards.

So many unanswered questions!

 

[Lucky]

To put an end to this because there is precedence and law, Disney is protected by the Ferae Naturae Doctorine. It simply states that a property owner is not responsible for "wild animal" attacks in natural areas where the animals live. If a lawsuit is filed, immediate summary judgement would be granted by the judge and appeals court.

Now, this all falls through if the alligator was a pet or owned by Disney. Knowing alligators, this is not the case.

No, it's not that simple...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/opini...ty-alligator-attack-danny-cevallos/index.html

 

[BigRedDad]

Yes it is that simple. I read that article and it is very clear. Disney and the FL FWC are constantly seeking and removing alligators. It is impossible to monitor every last bit of the area. There were no reasons to believe there would be an attack and Disney is definitely not negligent in their actions. Even if Disney and the FL FWC removed ALL alligators from its property, there would be a dozen more new residents within 24 hours.

The insurance is not going to settle because they have the law on their side. Then, the lawsuit will get filed and they will file for motion to dismiss which will be granted.

 

[Nubs70]

CBSNews said the official autopsy is complete and he died from tramatic injury and drowning. They speculate the father scared the gator enough it let go of the boy after diving underwater and he drowned. That's why he was found so close to where he disappeared. They've also caught another gator and it's not a match to the teethmarks.

Gators kill prey by drowning and crushing. And often store prey for consumption at a later time.

 

[ParentsOf4]

The insurance is not going to settle because they have the law on their side. Then, the lawsuit will get filed and they will file for motion to dismiss which will be granted.

I respectfully suggest you read this post by @fosse76, who indicates he is a Federal prosecutor:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...seven-seas-lagoon.914483/page-89#post-7270419

In addition, it's increasingly clear that Disney was aware of a growing problem caused by Guests feeding alligators and did nothing substantial to address it.

Some might be fed up with our "I'm gonna sue" society but it does appear that Disney was negligent.

 

[thomas998]

Yes it is that simple. I read that article and it is very clear. Disney and the FL FWC are constantly seeking and removing alligators. It is impossible to monitor every last bit of the area. There were no reasons to believe there would be an attack and Disney is definitely not negligent in their actions. Even if Disney and the FL FWC removed ALL alligators from its property, there would be a dozen more new residents within 24 hours.

The insurance is not going to settle because they have the law on their side. Then, the lawsuit will get filed and they will file for motion to dismiss which will be granted.

If it were the first attack to ever happen then I would agree that Disney would be in a good position.... But we now know that Disney had at least one previous attack, and with each passing day someone else comes along with more allegations of near misses with alligators, or allegations that Disney was aware people were feeding the gators and ignoring it.... Then of course you could also throw in that Disney was negligent for all sorts of reason, they failed to put up warning signs to be on the look out for alligators when they knew that a majority of the customers they were drawing in were from areas outside Florida who had no knowledge of the alligators... they were aware of alligators in the lagoon yet created a place for visitors that was not only accessible but designed to draw visitors to the area (the sand wasn't natural it was placed there with the intent to have people flock to it like a beach).... There are all sorts of angles a lawyer could use to go after Disney, your assumption that ferae naturae provides some blanket immunity for Disney is naive at best.

 

[G00fyDad]

No Swimming signs aside, is there anywhere that gators or other danger is mentioned to the resort guest either on check-in or buried in the small print of the paperwork that comes with booking ?

There is no small print that I am aware of. It is a simple fact of going to Florida. However, those who have not lived in Florida or who do not go regularly may not be aware of the alligator issue. Something else to keep in mind that has been on the rise lately is that of Anaconda snakes. They are apparently all over the everglades now. How long before those things start branching out?

 

[TeriofTerror]

Do I think the signs should be more explicit regarding what dangers could potentially be encountered? Absolutely. But Disney may have felt they were legally covered by the "No Swimming" Signs. Per a CNN article:
When it comes to alligator attacks, courts in Florida have held that a swimmer's disregard of "No Swimming" and other warning signs were the sole cause of the serious injuries.
Due to the vast number of languages spoken by Disney guests, any signs that warn of reptilian risks will probably need to include some sort of pictorial aspect as well. And you know some parent is going to whine that the picture scared their precious snowflakes and gave them nightmares, thus "ruining their whole vacation". Disney probably felt hanged if they did/hanged if they didn't, and just hoped they'd never have to deal with the issue.