-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon
- Thread starter simba2
- Start date
- Status
flynnibus
Premium Member
Gators drag their prey under water to drown them. It's simply possible the gator gave up on him after the struggle and his size. Alas the drowning would have already been done.
Nj4mwc
Well-Known Member
I remember poking quite a few with sticks as a kid while camping there. Back when parents did not hover over there children constantly
I grew up in the canyons above Los Angeles, so I'm familiar with coyotes. Just never thought I'd see one in a residential neighborhood in the Florida capital. Warned all my neighbors to keep their dogs on leashes and their cats indoors. And let the guy who lives behind me know that he might want to keep his chickens in the coop for a few days. We have some goslings in the pond in the middle of our neighborhood, so I wonder if he/she wasn't hunting them.
oceanbreeze77
Well-Known Member
With the drought they aint just in the canyons anymore.... (I live in coastal region)
flynnibus
Premium Member
Read the earlier posted articles. There is plenty of case law limiting liability when it comes to situations with native wildlife. There is interpretation areas when it comes to warnings... But there is also case law against having to do so in fl because they are a known native issue. They wouldn't be liable for the gators actions, or be negelent because it was there... But how much warning is needed would be tested.
The kid died... Let's be serious - Disney is going to offer a huge settlement right up front. The only question is will a lawyer push for more
I take it that it means I can't swim, ie, get my whole body in the water and move my arms and legs while propelling myself forward - or backward, depending on the stroke. As I stated, it depends upon what you think "swim" means.
You sound like my oldest brother. He once took my dad's bb gun, shot up a rattle snake, puts its bloody body in a Lincoln log can (yes, I'm that old) and gave it to my mother as a "present". She didn't bat an eye...she grew up on a cattle ranch in NE Colorado.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Yes. It was brief and basically just thanked the police for their efforts.
I agree.. So many unnecessary things being stated in this thread..
LAM378
Well-Known Member
I'm another one who swam in those waters with my siblings as a child. I remember Goofy and Pinocchio water skiing onto the beach for photo ops with guests.
I just stayed at GF with my sister's family last month. Her kids are also 4 and 2 years old. They are tiny little best friends, and I can't imagine the pain and loss that this child's sibling will live with.
Today my sister said, "If we'd had time I wouldn't have hesitated to take their pictures on the beach, and of course the kids would've wanted to dip their feet in the water, and I probably would have let them." And I said nope, I never would have allowed it--bacteria! snakes! alligators! (saw a couple from the monorail last year stopped near WL). But the only reason I know those things is because I'm a huge WDW nerd. The average guest, one who doesn't haunt Disney forums or have any knowledge of Florida wildlife and the land WDW was built on, wouldn't think twice.
The average guest thinks "Idyllic setting! Resort on a man-made lake! I can see the castle!" They're in the bubble that Disney actively fosters, and I can't blame them one bit for their complacency. The average guest probably sees the "no swimming" signs and thinks they mean "no lifeguards." But if the whole family is nearby, what could go wrong?
I don't blame WDW, either. This has never happened before, and it certainly never will again.
All this Monday morning quarterbacking and blame-placing is just what people do, in the face of nightmares like this, to tell themselves "This would never happen to my family." I said it last year on the thread about the child who drowned at AoA--people insist their eyes never would have left their own child, they would have done things differently, this wouldn't have happened to them. That's how some people handle the horror of knowing that a freak accident, one second in which you were negligent, can take your child away from you in an instant.
Apologies for the novel I've written but this hits too close to home. I feel just awful for this family, and for every guest and CM and responder who saw this nightmare unfold.
I just stayed at GF with my sister's family last month. Her kids are also 4 and 2 years old. They are tiny little best friends, and I can't imagine the pain and loss that this child's sibling will live with.
Today my sister said, "If we'd had time I wouldn't have hesitated to take their pictures on the beach, and of course the kids would've wanted to dip their feet in the water, and I probably would have let them." And I said nope, I never would have allowed it--bacteria! snakes! alligators! (saw a couple from the monorail last year stopped near WL). But the only reason I know those things is because I'm a huge WDW nerd. The average guest, one who doesn't haunt Disney forums or have any knowledge of Florida wildlife and the land WDW was built on, wouldn't think twice.
The average guest thinks "Idyllic setting! Resort on a man-made lake! I can see the castle!" They're in the bubble that Disney actively fosters, and I can't blame them one bit for their complacency. The average guest probably sees the "no swimming" signs and thinks they mean "no lifeguards." But if the whole family is nearby, what could go wrong?
I don't blame WDW, either. This has never happened before, and it certainly never will again.
All this Monday morning quarterbacking and blame-placing is just what people do, in the face of nightmares like this, to tell themselves "This would never happen to my family." I said it last year on the thread about the child who drowned at AoA--people insist their eyes never would have left their own child, they would have done things differently, this wouldn't have happened to them. That's how some people handle the horror of knowing that a freak accident, one second in which you were negligent, can take your child away from you in an instant.
Apologies for the novel I've written but this hits too close to home. I feel just awful for this family, and for every guest and CM and responder who saw this nightmare unfold.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Most parks close at dusk.
Swimming after hours and especially at night is extremely dangerous and any public entity operated beach is going to forbid that.
And I'm sure their feline cohorts have come along for the ride too. Never really worried about coyotes since they are easy to scare. Mountain lions, another story.....
21stamps
Well-Known Member
Ok all it's my bedtime.
Please remember to try and remember that sometimes bad things just happen. With no fault to anyone involved.
Also remember to hug your kids a little tighter, and if you were putting off that next vacation, or trip to the zoo, or 5 minutes when you child wants to play a game but you're answering emails.. Just do it
. I know that I will.
Please remember to try and remember that sometimes bad things just happen. With no fault to anyone involved.
Also remember to hug your kids a little tighter, and if you were putting off that next vacation, or trip to the zoo, or 5 minutes when you child wants to play a game but you're answering emails.. Just do it
. I know that I will.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Yes but please keep in mind:
- The area in question. This is a groomed, well-maintained, artificial beach that Disney invites its paying customers to use that is located on a body of water wholly owned and controlled by Disney.
- Many bodies of water throughout the World have "No swimming" signs. Such warning signs offer some legal protection in cases of drowning. However, "No swimming" does not mean "Alligator warning".
- Regardless, the child was not swimming.
- Disney advertises WDW throughout the planet. It may be obvious to Floridians that bodies of water have alligators but most Disney Guests come from areas where alligators do not exist. These Guests cannot be expected to know the proximity of alligators and, even if they did, they have reasonable expectations that they will be protected from them in a beach area maintained by Disney.
As the CNN article you linked to ended with:
Even with adequate signage and ferae naturae doctrine, a resort could still be liable in spite of all these protections, if it's flat-out negligent.
Resort liability in Florida for an alligator attack will depend on the specific facts -- not only the facts of the tragedy itself, but what the resort did and knew in advance about the alligators, and the likelihood of the harm.
Resort liability in Florida for an alligator attack will depend on the specific facts -- not only the facts of the tragedy itself, but what the resort did and knew in advance about the alligators, and the likelihood of the harm.
Last edited:
flynnibus
Premium Member
If a large bird swoops down and snatches a baby... Or injures a guest in trying to snatch something... Was Disney obligated to let guests know there are large birds of prey in the region and encounters MIGHT happen?
What about mosquitos and the diseases they carry... Is that a sign too?
Or how about the snake that comes out of the bushes... Where is the snake sign???
This argument is not black and white, and there are conditionals and degrees of interpretation that a judge would have to evaluate. There is a lot of presedence tho for no liability for native wildlife that can be expected to be present.
Even if they did, I doubt it was directly from the mom or dad. If it were me, I'd probably be so sedated, I couldn't even tell you my own name.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I think it's still difficult to hold Disney flat-out negligent for this attack. First, the likelihood was not high. Watching CNN and other coverage of this attack, many wildlife experts are saying this was an extremely rare event and Disney has history on their side too. Now if there was a history of previous attacks and Disney did nothing about it then it would be easier to prove. The other factor to consider is that they had an active process in place to remove the dangerous alligators from the areas frequented by guests and relocate them to unused wetlands. Unfortunately the gators don't realize they are not supposed to come back. I'm sure investigators will review this process and if there is something lacking it could leave them open to potential lawsuit. The idea that the lake is manmade could be held against Disney but there are natural waterways (including Bay Lake) directly attached to the lagoon. It's not like the gator was in a resort swimming pool. Again, leaves them somewhat open to liability.
I agree with others that it will likely never see the inside of a court room. Neither side would benefit much.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
I would say that's very subjective.. Whenever I've encountered a no swimming sign I've always taken it as do not go in the water...
BAChicagoGal
Well-Known Member
I guess we will never know if a "Beware of Alligators" sign would have kept the parents from allowing their child close to the water. Will/Should Disney post such a sign in the future?
- Status