From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

[scmit02]

I was one of those that made comments about seawalls and boardwalks and I understand fully that they aren't 100% effective, but they are significantly more effective than a zero entry beach, grassy knoll, etc. Like most things, the path of least resistance will be followed in most (not all) cases. Example: in my neighborhood we have resident gators and they like to come out the ponds and sun on the slopped drainage pipes. Why, because they extend at 45 degree angles into the water. The grass around the pond is a 12" steep edge.

IF you want to really make a seawall effective, but rip rap in front of it...gators hate the stuff. But..nothing is 100% effective and in FL if a gator really wants to get somewhere they will.

A tech solution...perhaps the known gators should be RFID tagged and tracked and alarms go off if they cross into specified areas.

 

[Daveeeeed]

I was one of those that made comments about seawalls and boardwalks and I understand fully that they aren't 100% effective, but they are significantly more effective than a zero entry beach, grassy knoll, etc. Like most things, the path of least resistance will be followed in most (not all) cases. Example: in my neighborhood we have resident gators and they like to come out the ponds and sun on the slopped drainage pipes. Why, because they extend at 45 degree angles into the water. The grass around the pond is a 12" steep edge.

IF you want to really make a seawall effective, but rip rap in front of it...gators hate the stuff. But..nothing is 100% effective and in FL if a gator really wants to get somewhere they will.

A tech solution...perhaps the known gators should be RFID tagged and tracked and alarms go off if they cross into specified areas.

Good point, and like you said nothing is 100% effective as with anything. So it is not about keeping that pure chance thing from happening it is more about letting people to know, and try to keep away gators to reduce risk. The baby almost certainly wouldn't have been in that water had there been signs up like they have now.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Serious question-
Is a 1 in 2.4 million chance of an alligator attack considered "forseeable"?

It's my understanding that there is a 1-in-960,000 chance of being killed by lightning in the United States, yet Disney installs lightning rods all over the place and closes the pools when ground strikes are nearby.

Disney takes extensive precautions for lightning. Shouldn't they do the same for alligators?

 

[donsullivan]

It's my understanding that there is a 1-in-960,000 chance of being killed by lightning in the United States, yet Disney installs lightning rods all over the place and closes the pools when ground strikes are nearby.

Disney takes extensive precautions for lightning. Shouldn't they do the same for alligators?

Being killed by lightning is a far different thing than a person being struck, or a building being struck which results in fire. There are countless lightning strikes in Florida all the time (we have lightning strike radar) and the lightning rods on building are designed to route that energy to ground and reduce the risk of a fire in the building.

 

[GoofGoof]

I can't believe there is still a debate on whether Disney should have signs warning guests of gators. What harm is there in having the signs?

 

[Horizons1]

Seriously? It is universal (except maybe London ) that everywhere has the sun, everywhere does not have gators. The problem is most people don't expect a gator to be in there. That is true if you would've asked people or looked on these forums before this happened you would see that generally people weren't aware, that is not lack of education that is not an expectation. It would've been so so easy to have a sign up like they have at the shades of green across the street warning of gators. It wasn't scary, people walk still, but instead of going into the water slightly or walk next to it people walk a few feet back.
There is going to be excessive signs though I'll agree with you on that.

Well maybe I'm different from other people, but before I travel somewhere I'm not familiar with I ALWAYS research what kind of animals are where I'm going, what their habitats are, and how much danger they pose.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Being killed by lightning is a far different thing than a person being struck, or a building being struck which results in fire. There are countless lightning strikes in Florida all the time (we have lightning strike radar) and the lightning rods on building are designed to route that energy to ground and reduce the risk of a fire in the building.

So Disney shouldn't clear the swimming pools when ground strikes are nearby?

 

[Matt_Black]

I can't believe there is still a debate on whether Disney should have signs warning guests of gators. What harm is there in having the signs?

It lets the gators know we're on to them, removing the element of surprise.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm arguing my point because Disney KNEW there were gators just like at the Shades yet no one seems to care.

Because presence of gators alone is not something to be concerned about. Presence of gators big enough and motivated to attack humans is something to be noted and worried about. The presence of the first, does not necessarily mean the second.

Also SoG is not operated by Disney, but is leased to MWR of the DoD. It's not a one to one comparison, even tho SoG is on WDW property.

 

[21stamps]

It's my understanding that there is a 1-in-960,000 chance of being killed by lightning in the United States, yet Disney installs lightning rods all over the place and closes the pools when ground strikes are nearby.

Disney takes extensive precautions for lightning. Shouldn't they do the same for alligators?

Disney also removes nuisance alligators. Which is taking precautions as well. Unfortunately alligators don't sound a trumpet upon arrival, so there is a chance one can be missed. And no, that doesn't mean you are now on high risk of an attack.

 

[Daveeeeed]

Because presence of gators alone is not something to be concerned about. Presence of gators big enough and motivated to attack humans is something to be noted and worried about. The presence of the first, does not necessarily mean the second.

Also SoG is not operated by Disney, but is leased to MWR of the DoD. It's not a one to one comparison, even tho SoG is on WDW property.

I know, but it was at one time owned by it. That's why they don't have magic bands with rooms, or dining plan, but they do have extra magic hours. True I agree I have no fear of gators, but they should still warn people about their presence. Why else would the Shades of green have signs up other than to warn of gators?

 

[betty rose]

Well maybe I'm different from other people, but before I travel somewhere I'm not familiar with I ALWAYS research what kind of animals are where I'm going, what their habitats are, and how much danger they pose.

A lot of people see Disney's advertisements, on T.V. Hearing it's the Happiest Place on Earth. Most don't think beyond, "that looks like fun", I need to go there.

 

[Daveeeeed]

Well maybe I'm different from other people, but before I travel somewhere I'm not familiar with I ALWAYS research what kind of animals are where I'm going, what their habitats are, and how much danger they pose.

That's good that you do that and I wish most people would, but most people don't and a simple sign would inform people. Please tell me you agree with that.

 

[fosse76]

Serious question-
Is a 1 in 2.4 million chance of an alligator attack considered "forseeable"?

Yes. Disney knows there are alligators on their property. And there have been instances where these animals have attempted to harm guests. Alligators in general are known to harm or kill people. So the answer is yes. "Forseeability" and "likelihood" are not interchangeable when it comes to liability. And just because the backseat non-lawyers in this thread like to claim their opinions as legal fact:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/1...nightmare-say-experts.html#.V2Rywdh-ChE.email

 

[flynnibus]

It's my understanding that there is a 1-in-960,000 chance of being killed by lightning in the United States, yet Disney installs lightning rods all over the place and closes the pools when ground strikes are nearby.

Really bad analogy and poor use of statistics. Lighting rods are primarily to prevent building damage, not to counter individual human strikes. You'd have to cite something like how much property damage is caused by lightning strikes and why we install lightning rods to prevent damage from them... and talk about how much damage, or how many strikes there are.. not human strikes which are in the same space of weather risks, but not directly coorelated to the purpose and use of lightning rods.

Disney takes extensive precautions for lightning. Shouldn't they do the same for alligators?

They already do.

 

[21stamps]

Here's an idea-

All of you people who have strong opinions on what "SHOULD" be standard..

Write Tallahassee and express your concerns.

The law is not on your side at this point. So attempt to get it changed. Or realize that what you have is an "opinion", nothing more.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Disney also removes nuisance alligators. Which is taking precautions as well. Unfortunately alligators don't sound a trumpet upon arrival, so there is a chance one can be missed. And no, that doesn't mean you are now on high risk of an attack.

I agree, Disney does do some things.

However, removing them isn't enough. The articles/shows I've seen on the subject (dating from before this tragedy) state that nuisance alligators usually are those that have been fed by humans and should be euthanized. If not, they are simply going to return and pose the same threat.

Let's recall that Disney quickly killed 5 (not 1) alligators in the area within a few hours of this tragedy. Whatever they are doing to remove nuisance alligators is not working.

Hosting a "movie nights" event on the shoreline at night when human-fed alligators are more active without posting a warning or taking any additional precautions is incredibly irresponsible on Disney's part.

 

[GoofGoof]

Sorry if someone said it already(I haven't read quite a bit), but my best friend brought up 2 good points over the weekend.

1) Were the parents on their cell phones at the time of the attacks?
2) Had they been drinking?

To my knowledge there were no credible reports of either. There was one unsubstantiated rumor posted here that the patents were "trashed" but it hasn't been reported anywhere.

1. The father was watching his son by the water so whether his wife was on her cell phone or not is irrelevant. For argument's sake let's say the dad was on his cell phone. What difference does that make? He was still able to grab the gator and attempt to free his son. It seems like a stretch to somehow blame the parents in that case.
2. I apply the same logic with drinking. If they had a glass of wine at dinner does that make them guilty of something? If they were passed out drunk and not watching their children that's a different story, but again the dad was right there trying to save his son so that's highly unlikely.

These people have suffered so much already and as a parent I can tell you they likely will never stop blaming themselves for what happened. They don't need others trying to invent ways to place more blame on them.

 

[donsullivan]

A lot of people see Disney's advertisements, on T.V. Hearing it's the Happiest Place on Earth. Most don't think beyond, "that looks like fun", I need to go there.

And 800 milliion+ people have visited Walt Disney World and it has never happened before this event. That doesn't diminish this tragedy but lets get at least a little bit of perspective here.

 

[21stamps]

I agree, Disney does do some things.

However, removing them isn't enough. The articles/shows I've seen on the subject (dating from before this tragedy) state that nuisance alligators usually are those that have been fed by humans and should be euthanized. If not, they are simply going to return and pose the same threat.

Let's recall that Disney quickly killed 5 (not 1) alligators in the area within a few hours of this tragedy. Whatever they are doing to remove nuisance alligators is not working.

Hosting a "movie nights" event on the shoreline at night when human-fed alligators are more active without posting a warning or taking any additional precautions is incredibly irresponsible on Disney's part.

And this is where opinions differ.

I don't feel it is dangerous. Even knowing that someone just died there. Because the statistics are on my side. Unfortunately some unlucky person will always be the "one". We all hope it's never us, and the numbers say it shouldn't be, so we don't change our lives because of it.

The law agrees with my opinion. That's why signs aren't required, that's why beaches are open, lakes are open, people live on waterways, hotels are built on waterways, and it is such a tourist attractive state.