From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

[Daveeeeed]

Gators have been found in he bathroom at magic kingdom and splash mountain and have come out of the ocean onto the beach at Daytona so what you propose would have minimal effect other than maybe an illusion of safety.

It is still going to happen, but it is much easier to stay safe if you stay out of the water. I've seen gators sunbathing about 10 feet away from me. I didn't run because it was no threat to me, but there were signs posted warning of gators at the shades of green. Heck I might even have a photo of it. It is different when you are standing inches from he water or are in the water. You stand little to no chance. And sure the kid got unlucky due to his size it probably wouldn't have happened, but for everyone's sake it would be better to have warnings.

 

[KeeKee]

It would also not surprise me if the Florida Wildlife Commission prevent such a theoretical project from happening. It's likely they would consider it too disruptive to the natural ecosystem of animals like turtles who will regularly leave the water and then go back again. All of those wildlife management issues are a part of the total discussion that has to take place with anything they do. This is not just about the alligator attack, there is a whole ecosystem involved and it's vitally important to prevent unintended consequence.

You are absolutely correct. Didn't even think about the turtles. A boardwalk wouldn't disrupt their habitat, but a seawall would. Proving that this is a complex issue that will require a multi-faceted solution and not a simple one-pronged approach. In the short term, however, signs warning of gators would seem prudent.

 

[Daveeeeed]

Read the references... I'm over your "I know what you are saying, but I'm going to keep ignoring what it means" position. You are citing opinion, I'm citing legal precedent. One has weight in a legal discussion, the other does not. In the ocean case listed, it was not required for the city to warn about something simply because 'some people may not know about it'. In prior wild animal cases, again, there is no standard I've found that says "you must inform the public about mother nature because they are from out of town" and no case I've found has successfully used the "well OTHER people know, but WE didn't" as foundation for needing to warn against wild animals in their natural state.

Instead of repeating yourself ad naseum... maybe funnel that energy into finding some rulings that support your train of thought. It will be far more convincing then you simply repeating it over and over.

It's not a law... But it is Disney's property and they knew that there were gators in there without warnings. It is common sense to have some notification of a large predator. I personally once upon a time did not know here would be gators there. I think I should know that without looking into it by some form of warning there are gators there.

 

[betty rose]

No alligator can climb fences and walk on land and run at 25 mph.

I recently saw a T.V. show about alligator's. It was on the Animal Channel, it showed an alligator climbing a 6 foot chain link fence.

 

[21stamps]

Read the references... I'm over your "I know what you are saying, but I'm going to keep ignoring what it means" position. You are citing opinion, I'm citing legal precedent. One has weight in a legal discussion, the other does not. In the ocean case listed, it was not required for the city to warn about something simply because 'some people may not know about it'. In prior wild animal cases, again, there is no standard I've found that says "you must inform the public about mother nature because they are from out of town" and no case I've found has successfully used the "well OTHER people know, but WE didn't" as foundation for needing to warn against wild animals in their natural state.

Instead of repeating yourself ad naseum... maybe funnel that energy into finding some rulings that support your train of thought. It will be far more convincing then you simply repeating it over and over.

The only basis for that kind of mindset is irrational fear.
There are statistical odds that far outweigh any chance of this happening at this spot again.
But all of that is being ignored. Common sense has been thrown out the window and fear has replaced it.
By this logic we should all stop driving our vehicles, and all roads should be closed. Because we know that people could die in an accident. It's irrational.

 

[PhotoDave219]

A $100 Million dollar sea wall project....and it wouldnt guarantee squat. Will never happen

Not a 100M one, no.....

But extending existing ones?

 

[EngineJoe]

You are absolutely correct. Didn't even think about the turtles. A boardwalk wouldn't disrupt their habitat, but a seawall would. Proving that this is a complex issue that will require a multi-faceted solution and not a simple one-pronged approach. In the short term, however, signs warning of gators would seem prudent.

I think the way the rules are setup now by the wildlife federation Disney can't just start assaniating every single gator.

It seems they can only kill gators that are deemed to be dangerous.

Even the hunting rules limit a hunter to being able to kill only two gators for game.

If an alligator is considered a nuisance then they can be relocated by trappers but alligators often try to return to their capture site. Removing the alligators is what Disney is allowed to do.

 

[flynnibus]

It's not a law... But it is Disney's property and they knew that there were gators in there without warnings. It is common sense to have some notification of a large predator. I personally once upon a time did not know here would be gators there. I think I should know that without looking into it by some form of warning there are gators there.

Well then I think you should reconsider your use of the word 'must' and instead consider the word 'SHOULD' as it would better suit your actual position. You're arguing what you believe they SHOULD do and not what they MUST do by policy or law... and keep trying to counter someone talking about their legal obligation with what you think they SHOULD do. That's why you're making no progress.

 

[asianway]

I think the way the rules are setup now by the wildlife federation Disney can't just start assaniating every single gator.

It seems they can only kill gators that are deemed to be dangerous.

Even the hunting rules limit a hunter to being able to kill only two gators for game.

If an alligator is considered a nuisance then they can be relocated by trappers but alligators often try to return to their capture site. Removing the alligators is what Disney is allowed to do.

Shouldnt they have euthenized the Coronado pet gator by now given all the accounts of it being fed?

 

[ParentsOf4]

Interestingly enough, wiki's (I know, not the best source) includes the following under "duty of care":

Responsibility

United States

Foreseeability test

In several states, like Florida and Massachusetts, the only test is whether the harm to the plaintiff from the defendant's actions was foreseeable

 

[21stamps]

I think the way the rules are setup now by the wildlife federation Disney can't just start assaniating every single gator.

It seems they can only kill gators that are deemed to be dangerous.

Even the hunting rules limit a hunter to being able to kill only two gators for game.

If an alligator is considered a nuisance then they can be relocated by trappers but alligators often try to return to their capture site. Removing the alligators is what Disney is allowed to do.

It's pointless.
Normally a conversation or healthy debate gets somewhere, someone will admit they learned something and can see the other side, hopefully both parties will agree on at least one point.

That isn't happening here. If one is stuck on "opinion" and doesn't care about facts, then there can be no progress in a conversation.

It's really sad. People choose to be ignorant.
There are plenty of things that I don't know about, I choose not to debate those things.

 

[21stamps]

Interestingly enough, wiki's (I know, not the best source) includes the following under "duty of care":

Responsibility

United States

Foreseeability test

In several states, like Florida and Massachusetts, the only test is whether the harm to the plaintiff from the defendant's actions was foreseeable

Serious question-
Is a 1 in 2.4 million chance of an alligator attack considered "forseeable"?

 

[Daveeeeed]

Well then I think you should reconsider your use of the word 'must' and instead consider the word 'SHOULD' as it would better suit your actual position. You're arguing what you believe they SHOULD do and not what they MUST do by policy or law... and keep trying to counter someone talking about their legal obligation with what you think they SHOULD do. That's why you're making no progress.

I agree with you on maybe I should've worded it differently, and there's definitely nothing that says "If there are gators you must put up a sign" but there are laws that require you to use common sense (can't remember the exact term so it will have to do) like put up a warning on how you should remain seated at all times on an attraction. Because if you don't you can get sued and lose if something happens.

 

[Daveeeeed]

Serious question-
Is a 1 in 2.4 million chance of an alligator attack considered "forseeable"?

Yes. Plus like it has been said they've already had one attack. I don't run away if I see a gator sunbathing but I want to be warned. It is foreseeable as a possibility that can happen at some point. If there's a factory and they know the machine is gone to explode if a bolt is not tightened, but they wait what do you think is going to happen? Plain and simple it's wrong to not warn someone of a danger. Different things apply for different places, but for a WDW beach they should've had a warning. I mean heck they have it across the street.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Shouldnt they have euthenized the Coronado pet gator by now given all the accounts of it being fed?

It's an interesting point. From what I've seen and read dating from before this tragedy, alligator experts know that "A fed alligator is a dead alligator", meaning these alligators should be euthanized if fed by humans.

Assuming Disney employs alligator experts, then Disney should have known that fed alligators should be euthanized.

Did Disney know that alligators in the Seven Seas Lagoon were being fed by humans?

 

[21stamps]

I agree with you on maybe I should've worded it differently, and there's definitely nothing that says "If there are gators you must put up a sign" but there are laws that require you to use common sense (can't remember the exact term so it will have to do) like put up a warning on how you should remain seated at all times on an attraction. Because if you don't you can get sued and lose if something happens.

You are comparing something made by man against something in nature.
If you learn to know the difference between the 2 then you will understand what several of us are saying!

 

[PhotoDave219]

Shouldnt they have euthenized the Coronado pet gator by now given all the accounts of it being fed?

I foresee them euthanizing everything they find....

 

[21stamps]

Yes. Plus like it has been said they've already had one attack. I don't run away if I see a gator sunbathing but I want to be warned. It is foreseeable as a possibility. Plain and simple it's wrong to not warn someone of a danger. Different things apply for different places, but for a WDW beach they should've had a warning. I mean heck they have it across the street.

Omg. Just because you have stayed at 1 hotel that had signs doesn't mean that they all do. Or that they need to.

Look outside of your own experience and look at the law, and the rest of the city and state. You're arguing on opinion. Not facts.

 

[Daveeeeed]

You are comparing something made by man against something in nature.
If you learn to know the difference between the 2 then you will understand what several of us are saying!

It cannot always be prevented, I don't blame it for the attack it is doing what it does, but common sense says to let people know.

 

[Daveeeeed]

Omg. Just because you have stayed at 1 hotel that had signs doesn't mean that they all do. Or that they need to.

Look outside of your own experience and look at the law, and the rest of the city and state. You're arguing on opinion. Not facts.

I'm arguing my point because Disney KNEW there were gators just like at the Shades yet no one seems to care. It is common sense to put up a sign of you know of a threat. It was bound to happen at some point, either now or in 10 years. It's hypocritical of Disney to put it in one place with gators and not the other. I would assume that more than likely over 2.4 million people have been on the beaches around SSL.