From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

[21stamps]

Well, you see - there was no such sign.
There was a no swimming sign, but nothing warning of not going down to the waters edge.
The whole set up was designed to bring you to the shoreline.

What? Yeah, I said "New Sign". The ones that have been shown all over the Internet and news channels yesterday.. That state exactly what I said they do above.
Maybe I'm wrong though.. If someone can't even read a post that they quote maybe we do need barriers from everything. Or hopefully you were just joking and trying to prove that people can't read.

Please don't twist words into me placing blame on those parents. I've said several time that I don't blame them. I've done it with my own child. It was an extremely rare occurrence. No blame on either side.

 

[Witchy Chick]

I'm gonna imagine short brick/stone walls around the entire beaches.

IMO I think whatever the permanent barrier turns out to be, it needs to be something that is an actual deterrent.....to humans. A "short wall" at some point will just become "seating" for people who climb over it to dip their toes/feet into the water.

The fences and signs don't look great but at least they make the point clear. I wonder if people will ignore them and climb over though? If guests don't heed no flash photography warnings on rides, they'll probably ignore these too. It's not like the lagoon has suddenly become more dangerous overnight, it's always had dangerous wildlife in it, so if people went in the water before, I'm sure a rope fence won't stop them doing so again.

I commented last night to my husband "I'm just waiting for the first Facebook/Twitter pics of some knumbskull who climbs over/through these rope fences." I know they are likely temporary, but I don't see them as a true deterrent. Most people will stay out, but there are always those special few who think the rules don't apply to them.

Fair enough. But let me ask you this- with all of the shark attacks that have happened in the past couple of years, would you still let your children swim in that area? Or do you want it closed off?

I can be upset, people can be upset that a child died. It doesn't mean that drastic measures need to be taken. It doesn't mean we all feel or actually are "unsafe" because there was an alligator who attacked. It's a rare incident. Tragic and rare.

If it is a short term measure and no visible barriers are put in place then I won't think it is pandering. I'm all for the signs.. But If a permanent barrier gets put up, then I will totally think it's to create a "bubble".

You didn't answer my question about the shark. Would you let your kids swim in the Outer Banks or anywhere else that has had shark attacks? Do you want those beaches to be blocked off?

As for the shark attacks angle, are those beaches public beaches or owned by someone/corporation? It has been mentioned numerous times in this thread that if Disney maintains the status quo (no fences/signs/deterrent at water's edge) and this were to occur again, negligence could be proven
(in a court of law). Shark attacks on a public beach -- who gets sued? The state? It's public property?

 

[nvincent1117]

I've seen the innuendo. But again, one CM saying it doesn't make it fact. He could be a disgruntled attention seeker telling the media things they want to hear. Factual data on alligator removal will be far more credible.

just like the county has no reason to be buddy buddy with Disney and speak nothing but good things riiiighttt? you know no reason to protect the company that made the entire county relevant.

 

[21stamps]

IMO I think whatever the permanent barrier turns out to be, it needs to be something that is an actual deterrent.....to humans. A "short wall" at some point will just become "seating" for people who climb over it to dip their toes/feet into the water.



I commented last night to my husband "I'm just waiting for the first Facebook/Twitter pics of some knumbskull who climbs over/through these rope fences." I know they are likely temporary, but I don't see them as a true deterrent. Most people will stay out, but there are always those special few who think the rules don't apply to them.





As for the shark attacks angle, are those beaches public beaches or owned by someone/corporation? It has been mentioned numerous times in this thread that if Disney maintains the status quo (no fences/signs/deterrent at water's edge) and this were to occur again, negligence could be proven
(in a court of law). Shark attacks on a public beach -- who gets sued? The state? It's public property?

That's my point. It is only for liability. Signs SHOULD be enough for a company not to be liable. The new wording on the signs leaves no room for interpretation...yet they are anticipating that IF something would happen again that someone could find a loophole with signage. So a barrier is going up.

But the people who think they are really a good idea, or should be in place to keep us "safe", these same people don't cry for a beach to be permanently closed after a shark attack, and they probably still take their children in the ocean.

 

[Baltar]

just like the county has no reason to be buddy buddy with Disney and speak nothing but good things riiiighttt? you know no reason to protect the company that made the entire county relevant.

Oh there's no doubt. It's not like what you just said is something shocking. But..to a court, it will still give credence to Disney's side. Moreso than random people on a message board just making wild accusations with little to no proof.

And not that I expect you to peruse through 100 pages..i'm just of the opinion no side is at fault. It's just a tragedy. I was just presenting my POV of how a potential case would go down

 

[Baltar]

IMO I think whatever the permanent barrier turns out to be, it needs to be something that is an actual deterrent.....to humans. A "short wall" at some point will just become "seating" for people who climb over it to dip their toes/feet into the water.

Well I believe signages and walls are what they'll do. They won't stop idiots from going over it of course. But it will be a legal obstacle. The top of the wall can be designed to not sit on. And I also feel that they will start putting some sort of beach deterrents under water that will try and keep most large wildlife from getting closer to those beaches.

 

[21stamps]

I'm pretty sure they would probably agree.

I'd be willing to bet that if they took a 'survey' of monorail resort guests on if they would still go on the beach or stay there without a fence- an overwhelming majority would say "Yes".

I guess we'll see what "permanent" fixture they come up with. I do think they'll respect the theme of each resort when doing so. Hope for the best anyway.

 

[rob0519]

That's my point. It is only for liability. Signs SHOULD be enough for a company not to be liable. The new wording on the signs leaves no room for interpretation...yet they are anticipating that IF something would happen again that someone could find a loophole with signage. So a barrier is going up.

But the people who think they are really a good idea, or should be in place to keep us "safe", these same people don't cry for a beach to be permanently closed after a shark attack, and they probably still take their children in the ocean.

Oh please. The fences aren't that horrible looking. Disney had to put up some type of barrier because some people won't read the signs or some could say they can't read the english language. A fence means stop in pretty much any language. If someone crosses a fence or a barrier to the water it significantly reduces Disney's liability in court. This is 90% liability risk management and 10% safety. In my opinion, anyway.

 

[21stamps]

Oh please. The fences aren't that horrible looking. Disney had to put up some type of barrier because some people won't read the signs or some could say they can't read the english language. A fence means stop in pretty much any language. If someone crosses a fence or a barrier to the water it significantly reduces Disney's liability in court. This is 90% liability risk management and 10% safety. In my opinion, anyway.

You just completely agreed with me. So I don't know where the "oh please" comes into play. Besides the obvious differing opinion of the beauty of a fence separating a beach from water.

 

[asianway]

Some people really need to get a grip.
The only areas Disney is likely to alter are the beach areas where they meet the water.
Not all of the grassy slopes, and not along every stretch of water throughout the park system.
They only need to protect where beach meets water so that a guest strolling the shoreline won't get picked off by an ambush predator.
And no, they don't need to build gator proof or people proof barriers. That's not the idea,
Probably install rocks, or boardwalk, or small walls - possibly a combination of all three depending on where they are doing it, and according to the design aesthetics of the particular area.

People routinely sun themselves on those grassy slopes all over property.

Also how about NYE at Epcot?

 

[majortom1981]

I live on long island and we have these rope fences all over by the water. I even typed in hawaii rope fences and they have them there on the beaches as well. I did see a couple with polynesian gods carved into them. I like the idea of putting a boardwalk along the edge of the beach. This way you can walk along the edge of the water and maybe they can extend it to some area that you havent been able to walk along.

 

[thomas998]

You seem to be a rude and argumentative person. With absolutely nothing constructive to say.

But whatever floats your boat .

No, I'm not big in the complaining to management when that complaint wouldn't change anything. I am venting here. Because it's a message board, and people can have opinions.

You know you might complain whether you are upset with the change or not. Claim you made reservations because you had been shown all these wonderful pictures of a sandy beach leading to an inviting lake, and if you had known you would be fenced in like a bunch of cattle and excluded from the water you would have made reservations at another resort.... If you're lucky and complain loudly enough it might get you a room upgrade or some other freebie. So don't think complaining to management wont change anything it certainly wont result in the fences being removed while you are there but it might get you something else.

 

[thomas998]

I live on long island and we have these rope fences all over by the water. I even typed in hawaii rope fences and they have them there on the beaches as well. I did see a couple with polynesian gods carved into them. I like the idea of putting a boardwalk along the edge of the beach. This way you can walk along the edge of the water and maybe they can extend it to some area that you havent been able to walk along.

I just don't know whether having a boardwalk that runs along a known alligator pond is the best idea... While alligators can't fly, they can lunge up out of the water and someone on that boardwalk would still be at some risk, especially at night when the visitor wouldn't be able to see nearly as well as the alligator.

 

[majortom1981]

I just don't know whether having a boardwalk that runs along a known alligator pond is the best idea... While alligators can't fly, they can lunge up out of the water and someone on that boardwalk would still be at some risk, especially at night when the visitor wouldn't be able to see nearly as well as the alligator.

A boardwalk would be higher off the ground then just having a fence at water level. also at the edge of the boardwalk could be a wood fence that could protect better then a rope one. It would also be able to be decorated to the resort.

 

[21stamps]

You know you might complain whether you are upset with the change or not. Claim you made reservations because you had been shown all these wonderful pictures of a sandy beach leading to an inviting lake, and if you had known you would be fenced in like a bunch of cattle and excluded from the water you would have made reservations at another resort.... If you're lucky and complain loudly enough it might get you a room upgrade or some other freebie. So don't think complaining to management wont change anything it certainly wont result in the fences being removed while you are there but it might get you something else.

I won't do that, I'm still choosing to vacation there even knowing there will be a fence. I'm most upset about Poly and we are actually staying at the Contemporary this time.lol. Warm months will always be Poly - kiddo loves the pool. I'm assuming that the beach, movies, water sports, and marshmallows, will be open at CR when we're there. We have a Pirate Adventure cruise scheduled for our 3rd morning, and so far it doesn't seem like they will be cancelling those.

 

[21stamps]

A boardwalk would be higher off the ground then just having a fence at water level.

An elevated boardwalk would take away the view from most of the property, I don't think they will do that.

 

[sedati]

You know you might complain whether you are upset with the change or not. Claim you made reservations because you had been shown all these wonderful pictures of a sandy beach leading to an inviting lake, and if you had known you would be fenced in like a bunch of cattle and excluded from the water you would have made reservations at another resort.... If you're lucky and complain loudly enough it might get you a room upgrade or some other freebie. So don't think complaining to management wont change anything it certainly wont result in the fences being removed while you are there but it might get you something else.

unlike- please don't encourage frivolous and loud complaining- employees are actually human beings and don't need their days further complicated by greedy obnoxious people looking for undeserved freebies. I honestly can't tell if this was meant as humor, but I deal with people with this sort of attitude all the time- taking an incredibly minor complaint to the highest extreme in the hopes of being placated with gifts.

 

[Incomudro]

I just don't know whether having a boardwalk that runs along a known alligator pond is the best idea... While alligators can't fly, they can lunge up out of the water and someone on that boardwalk would still be at some risk, especially at night when the visitor wouldn't be able to see nearly as well as the alligator.

We don't know what Disney will ultimately construct, and where.
Whatever they do, it doesn't need to be gator proof or people proof, and it doesn't need to surround all of their waterways.
It just needs to be a buffer zone.
Disney needs to show that they recognize the risk and took measures, and created some type of barrier reducing the risk of a possible ambush. Peoples feet will not be in the water off of a sloped shoreline.

 

[majortom1981]

An elevated boardwalk would take away the view from most of the property, I don't think they will do that.

Not that elevated it would only be a couple of inches off the sand.

 

[21stamps]

Not that elevated it would only be a couple of inches off the sand.

The beaches aren't that crowded during the day time...I am completely speculating here, but the boardwalk idea sounds good, until you think about it- you don't want to put it to close to the water, because now you are basically encouraging people to go there, and an alligator could easily get a few inches above water. Also, you would have to line it with a fence, so people won't fall or jump off, which would impact the view.

If they don't take it that far, and go with your idea- do some kind of flat boardwalk with a low elevated edge, it would definitely be a lot better than a fence.