FP+ meltdown part x

[BrerJon]

You mean like the old days when the return time was a you cannot ride before this time but any time after was OK.

The only reason it was stopped was because MyMagic was coming.

I know Disney restaurant staff hate Fastpass+. In the old days, if a guest was complaining their meal was taking a long time, or there was a problem with the meal, but they needed to leave to use a Fastpass, CMs would reassure them that they could enjoy dinner without rushing because of unenforced expiry - something essential after the adoption of DDP.

Now this has been abandoned, guests have to choose between abandoning a meal or abandoning the ride. Unhappier guests, unhappier CMs... but happier accountants, right? Wrong.

The theory behind NextGen was get more money out of guests pockets by making them spend less time in line, but nobody looked at the wider butterfly effect. It's not the time in line, but when that time is that counts. A guest who waits 45 minutes after a relaxing meal will probably spend more money in the day than a guest who rushes their food to get to a 20 minute wait.

Were you thinking about ordering that $10 dessert? It looks delicious, and you have plenty of time. Not in the new system though, we gotta go now to be at Toy Story! That's ten bucks per guest less in Disney's pocket, the opposite of what this system was supposed to do.

 

[ford91exploder]

The only reason it was stopped was because MyMagic was coming.

I know Disney restaurant staff hate Fastpass+. In the old days, if a guest was complaining their meal was taking a long time, or there was a problem with the meal, but they needed to leave to use a Fastpass, CMs would reassure them that they could enjoy dinner without rushing because of unenforced expiry - something essential after the adoption of DDP.

Now this has been abandoned, guests have to choose between abandoning a meal or abandoning the ride. Unhappier guests, unhappier CMs... but happier accountants, right? Wrong?

The theory behind NextGen was get more money out of guests pockets by making them spend less time in line, but nobody looked at the wider butterfly effect. It's not the time in line, but when that time is that counts. A guest who waits 45 minutes after a relaxing meal will probably spend more money in the day than a guest who rushes their food to get to a 20 minute wait.

Were you thinking about ordering that $10 dessert? It looks delicious, and you have plenty of time. Not in the new system though, we gotta go now to be at Toy Story! That's ten bucks per guest less in Disney's pocket, the opposite of what this system was supposed to do.

Precisely. Last couple of visits we have not used FP- at all (we have premier passes) because mine predate FP- we usually have problems which require a couple of hours at GR each trip. The annoyance factor is so high we go in ride a few standbys and leave in 4-6 hours or so and spend most of time relaxing at resort or seeing other Orlando area things like KSC or nature tours.

 

[G00fyDad]

The only reason it was stopped was because MyMagic was coming.

I know Disney restaurant staff hate Fastpass+. In the old days, if a guest was complaining their meal was taking a long time, or there was a problem with the meal, but they needed to leave to use a Fastpass, CMs would reassure them that they could enjoy dinner without rushing because of unenforced expiry - something essential after the adoption of DDP.

Now this has been abandoned, guests have to choose between abandoning a meal or abandoning the ride. Unhappier guests, unhappier CMs... but happier accountants, right? Wrong.

The theory behind NextGen was get more money out of guests pockets by making them spend less time in line, but nobody looked at the wider butterfly effect. It's not the time in line, but when that time is that counts. A guest who waits 45 minutes after a relaxing meal will probably spend more money in the day than a guest who rushes their food to get to a 20 minute wait.

Were you thinking about ordering that $10 dessert? It looks delicious, and you have plenty of time. Not in the new system though, we gotta go now to be at Toy Story! That's ten bucks per guest less in Disney's pocket, the opposite of what this system was supposed to do.

Or maybe, just maybe you can schedule your rides with the idea of having enough time to relax at your meal and still get to the FP in time. Just tossing that out there. We had zero problem utilizing the FP's and still having plenty of time to sit down and relax at a meal without worrying about getting up and running a marathon to get to the ride/attraction. Every time I see someone complaining about not having enough time to get to their FP because they are eating I have to wonder about their time management skills. Did they really think that they should schedule a FP for a time when they might consider getting something to eat? Did they really decide that they would have enough time to relax at a meal 45 minutes before their FP time started? I would think that the CM's that are irritated are likely more irritated at the guest's lack of planning skills. Yes, even eating somewhere spur of the moment with the old FP system required a modicum of planning ability. Unless that person was one of the countless inconsiderate people that thought "I have a Fast Pass for 10:00am to 11:00am. I'll hold on to that baby for 8:00pm tonight." Again, the FP+ system is only as difficult as a person allows it to be. Use it responsibly and don't schedule/walk-in for a dinner 30-45 minutes before the FP time.

 

[Tigger1988]

Or maybe, just maybe you can schedule your rides with the idea of having enough time to relax at your meal and still get to the FP in time. Just tossing that out there. We had zero problem utilizing the FP's and still having plenty of time to sit down and relax at a meal without worrying about getting up and running a marathon to get to the ride/attraction. Every time I see someone complaining about not having enough time to get to their FP because they are eating I have to wonder about their time management skills. Did they really think that they should schedule a FP for a time when they might consider getting something to eat? Did they really decide that they would have enough time to relax at a meal 45 minutes before their FP time started? I would think that the CM's that are irritated are likely more irritated at the guest's lack of planning skills. Yes, even eating somewhere spur of the moment with the old FP system required a modicum of planning ability. Unless that person was one of the countless inconsiderate people that thought "I have a Fast Pass for 10:00am to 11:00am. I'll hold on to that baby for 8:00pm tonight." Again, the FP+ system is only as difficult as a person allows it to be. Use it responsibly and don't schedule/walk-in for a dinner 30-45 minutes before the FP time.

Yup, if you want it to be complicated it will be. I've had zero problem relaxing, if anything FP+ has made it easier to do so. I no longer have to rely on EMH mornings to ensure I get on TSM or other headliners.

Don't like it? Don't use it. But don't even begin to try and tell others what value it has in their own vacations.

 

[flyerjab]

I typically refrain from engaging in the Fast Pass discussions as they are very polarized. In this case, however, I will entertain the discussion and hope that I can add some salient points.

My wife and I enjoy FastPass+ with what it offers. I am not going to dispute the differences between a KTTW card vs. the band. That boils down to semantics, fashion, etc., but in the end is just the vehicle for the technology that WDW is now employing at their parks.

There is the argument that WDW now offers more than less with FastPass+. I find this argument fascinating as it is solely based upon the fact that the determining factor in anyone person's enjoyment and/or value of a particular park is by the number of rides one person can physically ride in a given day. If that is the barometer by which a park is measured then the individuals that fall into that category will be disappointed. To those individuals, FP runners are a necessity as the mode of attack is the "park commando" and it is get the most bang for your buck by physically going on as many rides as possible. I visited the parks several times and attempted this level of "enjoyment" and found it to be a dissatisfying experience. As the father I was termed the runner and found this job extremely uncomfortable tearing across the MK for the next FP as the family stood in line. Comparing this to the current situation, I find the FastPass+ option to be offering more instead of less in terms of the overall experience of touring the parks.

Additionally, we do not rise with the sun in my family so we were never into park openings, a key component of the commando strategy. Another part of FastPass+ that is to me an improvement over the old is that I am entering the park with 3 FP+ already in hand, not needing to run at rope drop to obtain my first coveted paper FP - which, by the way, you can't easily change once you get one. We have already changed FPs in line multiple times when we decided to change our plans on the fly. This to me is also an improvement over the legacy FP system.

What is important for my opinion here is that I am not of the park commando breed. My enjoyment of the parks is at a more leisurely pace, as I like to enjoy the theming, landscaping, people watching, etc. For me, this is a better experience so yes, I find that FastPass+ offers my family more. To simply state that legacy FP allowed for the potential for more rides makes the new FP+ less valuable is a weak argument as there is so much more to a WDW vacation than simply the number of rides one may go on.

Also, I was under the impression that you are no longer limited to three FPs per day. Furthermore, the added FPs can be used in the other parks. This new system is and will continue to be "improved" upon (I added quotes as to me they have been improvements, to others not so much).

 

[dupac]

It will be interesting to see how this works out for my party of 14 works oUT next March. Of the 11 adults, 1 has been more than once (me), 3 have been to all 4 parks once, 2 have been to what they thought was WDW but was just the MK back in '90, and 5 have never been at all. We'll see....

 

[G00fyDad]

I typically refrain from engaging in the Fast Pass discussions as they are very polarized. In this case, however, I will entertain the discussion and hope that I can add some salient points.

My wife and I enjoy FastPass+ with what it offers. I am not going to dispute the differences between a KTTW card vs. the band. That boils down to semantics, fashion, etc., but in the end is just the vehicle for the technology that WDW is now employing at their parks.

There is the argument that WDW now offers more than less with FastPass+. I find this argument fascinating as it is solely based upon the fact that the determining factor in anyone person's enjoyment and/or value of a particular park is by the number of rides one person can physically ride in a given day. If that is the barometer by which a park is measured then the individuals that fall into that category will be disappointed. To those individuals, FP runners are a necessity as the mode of attack is the "park commando" and it is get the most bang for your buck by physically going on as many rides as possible. I visited the parks several times and attempted this level of "enjoyment" and found it to be a dissatisfying experience. As the father I was termed the runner and found this job extremely uncomfortable tearing across the MK for the next FP as the family stood in line. Comparing this to the current situation, I find the FastPass+ option to be offering more instead of less in terms of the overall experience of touring the parks.

Additionally, we do not rise with the sun in my family so we were never into park openings, a key component of the commando strategy. Another part of FastPass+ that is to me an improvement over the old is that I am entering the park with 3 FP+ already in hand, not needing to run at rope drop to obtain my first coveted paper FP - which, by the way, you can't easily change once you get one. We have already changed FPs in line multiple times when we decided to change our plans on the fly. This to me is also an improvement over the legacy FP system.

What is important for my opinion here is that I am not of the park commando breed. My enjoyment of the parks is at a more leisurely pace, as I like to enjoy the theming, landscaping, people watching, etc. For me, this is a better experience so yes, I find that FastPass+ offers my family more. To simply state that legacy FP allowed for the potential for more rides makes the new FP+ less valuable is a weak argument as there is so much more to a WDW vacation than simply the number of rides one may go on.

Also, I was under the impression that you are no longer limited to three FPs per day. Furthermore, the added FPs can be used in the other parks. This new system is and will continue to be "improved" upon (I added quotes as to me they have been improvements, to others not so much).

I can agree with everything you said here. However, while I am not (not have I ever been) a park commando we do get to the parks at opening because getting to the parks at 11am is just silly if you do like to ride anything and not wait an hour or more. We get up early, get to the park, ride the "big stuff" right away, then relax and stroll through the park until the FP+'s I scheduled for later come around. That way we get to ride the "big stuff" at least twice a day without a wait. I am all about relaxing too and getting to the parks in the early morning guarantees that relaxation.

 

[ford91exploder]

Or maybe, just maybe you can schedule your rides with the idea of having enough time to relax at your meal and still get to the FP in time. Just tossing that out there. We had zero problem utilizing the FP's and still having plenty of time to sit down and relax at a meal without worrying about getting up and running a marathon to get to the ride/attraction. Every time I see someone complaining about not having enough time to get to their FP because they are eating I have to wonder about their time management skills. Did they really think that they should schedule a FP for a time when they might consider getting something to eat? Did they really decide that they would have enough time to relax at a meal 45 minutes before their FP time started? I would think that the CM's that are irritated are likely more irritated at the guest's lack of planning skills. Yes, even eating somewhere spur of the moment with the old FP system required a modicum of planning ability. Unless that person was one of the countless inconsiderate people that thought "I have a Fast Pass for 10:00am to 11:00am. I'll hold on to that baby for 8:00pm tonight." Again, the FP+ system is only as difficult as a person allows it to be. Use it responsibly and don't schedule/walk-in for a dinner 30-45 minutes before the FP time.

Yup, if you want it to be complicated it will be. I've has zero problem relaxing, if anything FP+ has made it easier to do so. I no longer have to rely on EMH mornings to ensure I get on TSM or other headliners.

Don't like it? Don't use it. But don't even begin to try and tell others what value it has in their own vacations.

We'll both your points would have been valid except for one key factor

ADR are selected at 180 day point
FP are selected at 60 day point

In either case you do NOT get to select times you choose from a list of available times and they are not synchronized.

So if you have a FP- 2 .5 hours out from your ADR and anything goes wrong like a BTG is at same restaurant. Well you now have a choice of abandoning your meal or missing the ride. So I guess if rides are important to you your meals from now on at WDW will be Clif bars or something similar.

Back in the old days you could simply enjoy your meal and ride your ride when you were finished. Gee it was a RESORT not Mickeys Camp Lejune experience where you rushed from the chow hall to the parade ground for PT.

Sigh...

 

[Tigger1988]

We'll both your points would have been valid except for one key factor

ADR are selected at 180 day point
FP are selected at 60 day point

In either case you do NOT get to select times you choose from a list of available times and they are not synchronized.

So if you have a FP- 2 .5 hours out from your ADR and anything goes wrong like a BTG is at same restaurant. Well you now have a choice of abandoning your meal or missing the ride. So I guess if rides are important to you your meals from now on at WDW will be Clif bars or something similar.

Back in the old days you could simply enjoy your meal and ride your ride when you were finished. Gee it was a RESORT not Mickeys Camp Lejune experience where you rushed from the chow hall to the parade ground for PT.

Sigh...

Yeah, no. I (and others) somehow mangage to make it to our ADRs and FPs with zero issues.

And the times are fairly flexable. Never been forced to choose a FP that even came close to overlapping an ADR. Can't say the same for the old system.

YOU want it to be complicated, so it will be.

 

[Ariel1986]

We'll both your points would have been valid except for one key factor

ADR are selected at 180 day point
FP are selected at 60 day point

In either case you do NOT get to select times you choose from a list of available times and they are not synchronized.

So if you have a FP- 2 .5 hours out from your ADR and anything goes wrong like a BTG is at same restaurant. Well you now have a choice of abandoning your meal or missing the ride. So I guess if rides are important to you your meals from now on at WDW will be Clif bars or something similar.

Back in the old days you could simply enjoy your meal and ride your ride when you were finished. Gee it was a RESORT not Mickeys Camp Lejune experience where you rushed from the chow hall to the parade ground for PT.

Sigh...

Or... you book an ADR 180 days out and when you come to your FP+ 120 days later you know what times you will want to book as so not to clash with your meals, and book those FP+ times...

*If* something goes wrong see if you can switch your FP+ times around, if not- and the thing that has gone wrong is not your fault/out of your control- then talk to someone to see what can be done! If a ride breaks down you can get a fast pass for any ride- if you are going to miss a window through no fault of your own, Disney is usually pretty good at helping you out.

 

[G00fyDad]

Yeah, no. I (and others) somehow mangage to make it to our ADRs and FPs with zero issues.

And the times are fairly flexable. Never been forced to choose a FP that even came close to overlapping an ADR. Can't say the same for the old system.

YOU want it to be complicated, so it will be.

Its just a handful of people that hate the system. Our days are still full of relaxation, and easy going park enjoyment. I just make sure that my FP+'s don't get scheduled too close to any meals. And likewise, I don't schedule any meals too close to my FP+'s. Every time I see someone complaining about this it is usually a type "A" person that wants every little thing their way and who hate changes.

 

[G00fyDad]

Or... you book an ADR 180 days out and when you come to your FP+ 120 days later you know what times you will want to book as so not to clash with your meals, and book those FP+ times...

*If* something goes wrong see if you can switch your FP+ times around, if not- and the thing that has gone wrong is not your fault/out of your control- then talk to someone to see what can be done! If a ride breaks down you can get a fast pass for any ride- if you are going to miss a window through no fault of your own, Disney is usually pretty good at helping you out.

Using logic will not work here. They want/need to hate the system.

 

[Ariel1986]

Using logic will not work here. They want/need to hate the system.

So that's where we're all going wrong! Logical thinking! Do you think anyone else or Disney knows??

 

[BigTxEars]

I have an idea for that point... make it so that Fastpasses don't have an enforced expiry time., so diners never have to rush.

There Disney, saved ya a couple of billion.

Man I remember the threads on here on rather a return time on paper FPs reduced wait times or increased them. Those were like word math problems from school only on steroids. I don't know which they did (increased or decreased) but those were some "active" threads

And then the "is returning after my window cheating?" threads....

I am in favor of the current system (although not opposed to something new depending) or no system at this point. I really don't miss the paper FPs or what they required to maximize use. Although I always said I would knock over a couple of grannies on the way to TSM FP machine at the rope drop

 

[BigTxEars]

Heck I used FP+ last trip for Turtle Time w/Crush, M&G with Rapunzel (oh Rapunzel how I love thee!) and Enchanted tales w/Belle so my FP+ use is not optimized at all from what I am told. And the end of the day I guess I am not a effective FP+ user and that is fine, I was never one with old FP either. What I am is an effective fun haver at WDW so it's all good as the kids would say

 

[G00fyDad]

Although I always said I would knock over a couple of grannies on the way to TSM FP machine at the rope drop

We watched a man do that the year TSMM opened. He was hopping like he was trying to "stay loose", and when they dropped that rope and allowed us to go to the rides he actually put his hand on this kid's head (who was looking like he was going to race the guy) and shoved the kid to the ground. That man took off like an Olympic sprinter for the FP machines and then the ride. CM's caught up with him and I think they ejected him from the park. That hurt the kid, and almost caused the boy to be trampled by the wave of people. I'm not saying this was the precise cause, but shortly after this incident Disney started requiring CM's to "walk" guests to the rides at EPCOT and DHS park opening. Do they still do that? I don't remember from our last trip.

 

[BigTxEars]

We watched a man do that the year TSMM opened. He was hopping like he was trying to "stay loose", and when they dropped that rope and allowed us to go to the rides he actually put his hand on this kid's head (who was looking like he was going to race the guy) and shoved the kid to the ground. That man took off like an Olympic sprinter for the FP machines and then the ride. CM's caught up with him and I think they ejected him from the park. That hurt the kid, and almost caused the boy to be trampled by the wave of people. I'm not saying this was the precise cause, but shortly after this incident Disney started requiring CM's to "walk" guests to the rides at EPCOT and DHS park opening. Do they still do that? I don't remember from our last trip.

I hope they did kick his butt out for that.

I'm not sure if they do, I never made rope drop at any of the parks. I was was talking smack I have never nor would I ever run for a ride.

Closest we ever came was this past trip. Had later ADRs at San Angel at Epcot (we park hooped so we were eating late) and as we were completing our meal we I heard Illumnations. It suddenly dawned on me that if we did not hurry we would exit San Angel right as Illumniations ended and the mass of humanity would head for the front gate which is where we were headed. Needless to say we sucked down desert and walked very quickly (not run but fast fast walk) thru the Illumantion crowd to the front gate. It ended as we did so. Looking behind us was like looking at a zombie movie, just a mass of humanity coming after us

 

[BrerJon]

I'm not sure if they do, I never made rope drop at any of the parks. I was was talking smack I have never nor would I ever run for a ride.

You wouldn't like Tokyo, where rope drop resembles the start of the New York marathon. Thousands of people, all careering towards the Fastpass machines, with cast members chastising anyone who's too slow!

 

[ford91exploder]

Yes I just love to hate the magic band system, might have something to do with since it was rolled out (I was one of the involuntary guinea pigs for FP no paper pass testing with Tiers in the MK) that trip I spent at least 2 hours per day at GR 10 day trip and tech support. What did I get for my trouble besides a headache NOTHING not even an email thank you.

Since then I have not had a single trip since where I have not spent at least 2 hours getting my Ticket to work at GR.

Last visit to AK after an hour of trying to Disney's credit they simply gave me a 1 day MYW ticket because while they could see it was valid in the system. it would not let me in why no one could figure out. That was this August.

This is why I hate on MM+

 

[ford91exploder]

You wouldn't like Tokyo, where rope drop resembles the start of the New York marathon. Thousands of people, all careering towards the Fastpass machines, with cast members chastising anyone who's too slow!

Good times