FP+ meltdown part x

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
Maybe not to you but they are to us. I can not walk around in my real life for a week and ride, eat, sleep, drink, shop and relax like I can at WDW with a magic rubber band taking care of everything "unfun" about those things. That is immersive to us. If fact beyond not being able to do so it in my real life I don't know of a single place other than WDW that offers that experience. I can only imagine if my kids were younger how cool and immersive the MBs would be then, a magic bracket that opens you hotel room, gets you into the park and onto rides and lets you get that stuffed Mickey at the store....thats pretty cool immersive stuff to a 8 year old for example :)

And the way it added ride pics automatically to our Memory Maker was pretty darn immersive as well.

Now I am all for other types of immersion as well, but I do like the MBs. :)

And speaking of DA at Universal..

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FP+ would have prevented the need to run! :)

Magic Bands are a lot of things but immersive is not one of them.
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
I don't want to go to Disneyland, I want to go to WDW. It's a much better resort for us. No need to wake up, we know what we want.

I get your pain dude. With Belowthesurface telling everyone to go to Disneyland and me harping on about how everyone should try Tokyo, they might as well rechristen this site 'AnywhereButWDWMagic.com'
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
But I am a good planner and I use FP+ to make that planning that much better. It takes the randomness out of the plans day to day for us. Randomness has hurt our plans in the past so I am glad to rid ourselves of it. FP+ still offers the flexibility to plan and then not do as opposed to not being able to plan as well under the old FP and then not doing because of that reduced ability to plan.

I have rushed a few meals at WDW to make a paper FP happen in the past. We go again in Jan of next year. I have my ADRs already and at 60 days out I will pick my FP+ based around those ADRs, so I can eat in peace. That is not rewarding a bad planner.

I think the term "bad" planner is being misunderstood. Planning without flexibility = bad planning. The "we must be at X location at 3:35 to ride X attraction and be out of the line by 4:05 so we can walk ten minutes to get to X-spot by 4:15..." doesn't work out much of the time. It's stressful for everyone who isn't into this whole thing (usually you will find one member of the party who is all about this and the rest just kind of go along), and doesn't take into account the many things, including the unpredictable weather, but also like attraction down times, etc. that you simply cannot plan around. It's the text book example of "If you want to make God/Mother Nature/Etc. laugh, tell him/her/them about your plans".

I'm sure it's entirely possible to clockwork your entire "vacation" that way - and hey, it might even work out. But there are so many variables - including just plain old "today was supposed to be our second day at AK, but we already did everything there, let's do MK instead" spontaneity - or "gee, that looks interesting, let's stop and see this" - "We can't, we have 9 minutes to make it to X-thing I already booked".

Most folks already complained about having to schedule around dining reservations - my goodness, this is ten times worse than that. You spend all day looking at your watch and your phone. I'm a super-planner, but I realized long ago that the most effective plans are a) flexible, b) modular, and c) most importantly - as transparent as possible so everyone doesn't feel like they are at work/school/etc. I have no doubt some folks don't feel that way, but I really don't think that's how the majority of guests view a WDW vacation which already seemed like a lot of "work" to most folks to begin with.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
I think the term "bad" planner is being misunderstood. Planning without flexibility = bad planning. The "we must be at X location at 3:35 to ride X attraction and be out of the line by 4:05 so we can walk ten minutes to get to X-spot by 4:15..." doesn't work out much of the time. It's stressful for everyone who isn't into this whole thing (usually you will find one member of the party who is all about this and the rest just kind of go along), and doesn't take into account the many things, including the unpredictable weather, but also like attraction down times, etc. that you simply cannot plan around. It's the text book example of "If you want to make God/Mother Nature/Etc. laugh, tell him/her/them about your plans".

I'm sure it's entirely possible to clockwork your entire "vacation" that way - and hey, it might even work out. But there are so many variables - including just plain old "today was supposed to be our second day at AK, but we already did everything there, let's do MK instead" spontaneity - or "gee, that looks interesting, let's stop and see this" - "We can't, we have 9 minutes to make it to X-thing I already booked".

Most folks already complained about having to schedule around dining reservations - my goodness, this is ten times worse than that. You spend all day looking at your watch and your phone. I'm a super-planner, but I realized long ago that the most effective plans are a) flexible, b) modular, and c) most importantly - as transparent as possible so everyone doesn't feel like they are at work/school/etc. I have no doubt some folks don't feel that way, but I really don't think that's how the majority of guests view a WDW vacation which already seemed like a lot of "work" to most folks to begin with.

I guess since we never open to close a park we use the FP+ system differently than some. We book rides and a ADR so that our mornings (before 10am or so) are not set nor are our evenings (after 7 pm or so on average) that way we can sleep in and have the night free to go to DTD, swim, movies under the stars etc. The FP+ system allows me to plan the park portion of our day (i.e. the middle part) very easily and leaves the morning and evening to be our free or un-planned times. We just seem to be more successful doing this with FP+ than we were with FP. I can see how if we were the open to close folks we once were that FP+ would diminish the experience of squeezing the day out of the park. Heck I clearly remember some of the "attack plans" we use to have at WDW when we did open to close, it was like Operation Overload in nature :)
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
To you they are not. But if you want to pay for our next trip the WDW then you can determine if they are or not for us as well. Deal? :)

Feel free to explain how a band wrapped around your wrist is immersive. How the band itself stimulates your senses. Your previous example does meet the definition. The door is immersive (if you actually think that qualifies as being so) because it opens without you physically opening it. The band is not the immersive.

If you like them, great. Personally I haven’t tried them so I don’t know if they would make going to the parks better or not for me. People that I trust have had okay to bad experiences thus far. I do know 2 other things. They have increased the wait times for attractions that didn’t used to have them. They also took a lot money designated for parks and resorts that in my view should have been put into actual attraction improvements or additions.

I get your pain dude. With Belowthesurface telling everyone to go to Disneyland and me harping on about how everyone should try Tokyo, they might as well rechristen this site 'AnywhereButWDWMagic.com'

To a growing number of people Disneyland and Tokyo are better options than WDW. Disneyland and the Asian Disney resorts are simply better managed and maintained. They are also easier to navigate and investment in actual place making and attractions is much higher than at WDW.

Encouraging people who are fed up with WDW to seek out other Disney parks or the Cruise line is simply attempting to show them that there are alternatives to WDW. There is no question vacationing at WDW has increased dramatically over the last few years while the resort has continually cut in an effort to try and increase their bottom line. If you are okay with them doing than fine. You can’t fault people who do have a problem with current WDW and are seeking alternatives. Sorry if you feel threatened by that.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
But if you're not trying to hit everything, then sure it works.

I don't see how FP+ is really significantly different from FP in that regard. If you are an uber commando type who is trying to hit a ton of rides in a day you can still do so with FP+. Same basic strategy, get to the park at RD, ride key rides early (or very late), use Fastpass judiciously. Now, you are just scheduling 3 FP+ ahead of time instead of running around to get paper FP. And the additional FP+ that you can get after the first three isn't that different from greater numbers before.

I mean the biggest difference is that standby lines for some rides are longer. Which is more a side effect of more widespread utilization of Fastpasses by guests than anything else. For better or worse, Disney is really encouraging the use of FP+ (more than they ever did with paper FP) which means more people total in Fastpass lines.

Personally, when we went in August, I didn't see any dramatic difference in how much we could do in a day compared to the old paper system. YMMV.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
Feel free to explain how a band wrapped around your wrist is immersive. How the band itself stimulates your senses. Your previous example does meet the definition. The door is immersive (if you actually think that qualifies as being so) because it opens without you physically opening it. The band is not the immersive.

If you like them, great. Personally I haven’t tried them so I don’t know if they would make going to the parks better or not for me. People that I trust have had okay to bad experiences thus far. I do know 2 other things. They have increased the wait times for attractions that didn’t used to have them. They also took a lot money designated for parks and resorts that in my view should have been put into actual attraction improvements or additions.



To a growing number of people Disneyland and Tokyo are better options than WDW. Disneyland and the Asian Disney resorts are simply better managed and maintained. They are also easier to navigate and investment in actual place making and attractions is much higher than at WDW.

Encouraging people who are fed up with WDW to seek out other Disney parks or the Cruise line is simply attempting to show them that there are alternatives to WDW. There is no question vacationing at WDW has increased dramatically over the last few years while the resort has continually cut in an effort to try and increase their bottom line. If you are okay with them doing than fine. You can’t fault people who do have a problem with current WDW and are seeking alternatives. Sorry if you feel threatened by that.

I already did explain why we find them immersive. If you don't that's fine but it does not mean they are not to others like myself. As far as the door goes, I am not sure if you have kids (3 myself) but a magic band that unlocks a door with a simple wave of the wrist is cool stuff to the kiddos, heck I am 45 and it's pretty cool. I still remember the old school metal hotel room keys :)

Something like 40 million guest go to WDW from what I understand, no way that WDW ever designs a system that caters to all of their personal ways to see the resort. I found the foot race to FP machines anything but exciting, other loved that aspect of getting FPs each trip. I had to lived thru that or not go (me a poor old guy who can't run!) so I worked around it on my trips and still enjoyed them. For folks today who don't like FP+ they can do that or not go. There simply is not a system that will please everyone.

No place on Earth has to crowd manage like WDW does, it has to be a daily grind and nightmare for them. I can easily forgive the small issues they are having with MBs at this point as I think that is to be expected of new technology. I think the system has untapped potential that is exciting. I am booked at WDW until at least 2054 so I am all for future excitement :)
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
I think the term "bad" planner is being misunderstood. Planning without flexibility = bad planning. The "we must be at X location at 3:35 to ride X attraction and be out of the line by 4:05 so we can walk ten minutes to get to X-spot by 4:15..." doesn't work out much of the time. It's stressful for everyone who isn't into this whole thing (usually you will find one member of the party who is all about this and the rest just kind of go along), and doesn't take into account the many things, including the unpredictable weather, but also like attraction down times, etc. that you simply cannot plan around. It's the text book example of "If you want to make God/Mother Nature/Etc. laugh, tell him/her/them about your plans".

I'm sure it's entirely possible to clockwork your entire "vacation" that way - and hey, it might even work out. But there are so many variables - including just plain old "today was supposed to be our second day at AK, but we already did everything there, let's do MK instead" spontaneity - or "gee, that looks interesting, let's stop and see this" - "We can't, we have 9 minutes to make it to X-thing I already booked".

Most folks already complained about having to schedule around dining reservations - my goodness, this is ten times worse than that. You spend all day looking at your watch and your phone. I'm a super-planner, but I realized long ago that the most effective plans are a) flexible, b) modular, and c) most importantly - as transparent as possible so everyone doesn't feel like they are at work/school/etc. I have no doubt some folks don't feel that way, but I really don't think that's how the majority of guests view a WDW vacation which already seemed like a lot of "work" to most folks to begin with.

I think you are completely overblowing how this impacts a day. For most people, FP+ means three rides in a day that they go to, with an hour window each. Maybe they have 1 or 2 meals reserved too. OK. So, during a day, a group would have 4-5 things that they have scheduled in a general timeframe. It's not nearly the burden you imply -- you just aim to be in a general area of the park around the windows (or close enough to walk there).

And, honestly, your main complain really is less about FP+ and more about enforcing FP return windows when you think about it. Because once they started enforcing return windows with paper FP, the same concerns about having to be a certain place at a certain time came to bear. And, unlike FP+, you didn't have flexibility with your return time. A runner (or the whole party) would go to a ride and have to decide whether to even get a FP if the time worked.

Also, attractions going down is one of the clear positive things about FP+ use. You can use the FP+ any time for that ride when it comes back or simply do something else -- that greatly increases flexibility, not hinders it.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
I think you are completely overblowing how this impacts a day. For most people, FP+ means three rides in a day that they go to, with an hour window each. Maybe they have 1 or 2 meals reserved too. OK. So, during a day, a group would have 4-5 things that they have scheduled in a general timeframe. It's not nearly the burden you imply -- you just aim to be in a general area of the park around the windows (or close enough to walk there).

And, honestly, your main complain really is less about FP+ and more about enforcing FP return windows when you think about it. Because once they started enforcing return windows with paper FP, the same concerns about having to be a certain place at a certain time came to bear. And, unlike FP+, you didn't have flexibility with your return time. A runner (or the whole party) would go to a ride and have to decide whether to even get a FP if the time worked.

Also, attractions going down is one of the clear positive things about FP+ use. You can use the FP+ any time for that ride when it comes back or simply do something else -- that greatly increases flexibility, not hinders it.

We did use our FP+ latter (rain on Test Track & 7DMT went down) so that is a nice addition although it might have occurred with the old FP system as well. I was never a hard core FP user so I am not sure how much you could squeeze out of them. I do remember reading some of the FP plans posted on here and it seemed to be a science to some. I am glad they stopped allow the late returns for paper FPs, that always seemed like a loop hole to me they should close.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Honestly are you so vain that you think your opinion is the only valid one on the subject and anyone not agreeing with it "just does not understand"?
You're not even allowing yourself an opinion. This was in response to your saying you had no interest in Disneyland.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
You're not even allowing yourself an opinion. This was in response to your saying you had no interest in Disneyland.

(my exact post)

"I don't want to go to Disneyland, I want to go to WDW. It's a much better resort for us. No need to wake up, we know what we want."

Where did I say I was not interested in Disneyland? I clearly said WDW is a better resort for us. We don't go to WDW because we are "asleep" we do so because we prefer it.

For the record both DL (April) and WDW (June) received our money this year already. But two parks at DL is not enough to satisfy us for a week while WDW has more than enough to do so. We also like the amount of variety at WDW compared to DL. It a more "pro WDW" opinion than a "anti DL" opinion.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
And, honestly, your main complain really is less about FP+ and more about enforcing FP return windows when you think about it. Because once they started enforcing return windows with paper FP, the same concerns about having to be a certain place at a certain time came to bear. And, unlike FP+, you didn't have flexibility with your return time. A runner (or the whole party) would go to a ride and have to decide whether to even get a FP if the time worked.

No, that's not my "main complaint". My "main complaint" is that planning what attraction you are going to be around in a theme park up to 3 months in advance is simply insanity.

It's hard to have this discussion when different folks are on way different levels of understanding of just how the concept itself of doing so is utterly baffling and hilarious to those outside of the Disney fandom bubble (and many of us inside, as well).

How do you know what the weather will be like that day? How do you know your kid won't have a stomach ache and not be able to ride the rides you chose three months ago?

Oh, you can just leap on your smartphone, if you have one, and reschedule - if there are any available FP+ left, and then you have to mess around and go through this whole process which is beyond words more complex than just "go as you go along", grabbing a FP here or there when it helps.

You schedule a five minute meeting with a President three months in advance, not a five minute theme park ride.

Also, attractions going down is one of the clear positive things about FP+ use. You can use the FP+ any time for that ride when it comes back or simply do something else -- that greatly increases flexibility, not hinders it.

No, that's not a clear positive. The regular FP system was the same.

However, because you've booked that day three months in advance, you are at that park, you've scheduled your whole day around those FP, is far different than getting a FP a few hours before, somewhere you happen to be and that you plan on being for the next few hours.


I get it - some folks are eating this up and loving it. At a different time, perhaps I would have as well - but never for one minute would I think this was typical whatsoever of what the average WDW guest would want, because all I have ever heard from most folks when it comes to planning a WDW vacation is that it ALREADY was too much planning and scheduling to begin with - those folks who like to go on vacation like this - folks that would come to a Disney board to begin with - are by nature not typical.

I'm not arguing that I am typical myself - but I think after all these years of being the person at every workplace, social gathering, or pretty much any place I am being the "Disney expert" that folks come to (I've helped hundreds of folks plan trips at this point, and given advice to many more) I believe I have a decent idea of how "average" visitors react, and I can tell you the one constant has always been "wow there is just an overwhelming amount of planning, too much" - a lot of folks can't even comprehend how a theme park needs six-month-out dining reservations, let alone the concept of scheduling a 5 minute ride three months in advance.
 
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BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
No, that's not my "main complaint". My "main complaint" is that planning what attraction you are going to be around in a theme park up to 3 months in advance is simply insanity.

It's hard to have this discussion when different folks are on way different levels of understanding of just how the concept itself of doing so is utterly baffling and hilarious to those outside of the Disney fandom bubble (and many of us inside, as well).

How do you know what the weather will be like that day? How do you know your kid won't have a stomach ache and not be able to ride the rides you chose three months ago?

Oh, you can just leap on your smartphone, if you have one, and reschedule - if there are any available FP+ left, and then you have to mess around and go through this whole process which is beyond words more complex than just "go as you go along", grabbing a FP here or there when it helps.

You schedule a five minute meeting with a President three months in advance, not a five minute theme park ride.



No, that's not a clear positive. The regular FP system was the same.

However, because you've booked that day three months in advance, you are at that park, you've scheduled your whole day around those FP, is far different than getting a FP a few hours before, somewhere you happen to be and that you plan on being for the next few hours.


I get it - some folks are eating this up and loving it. At a different time, perhaps I would have as well - but never for one minute would I think this was typical whatsoever of what the average WDW guest would want, because all I have ever heard from most folks when it comes to planning a WDW vacation is that it ALREADY was too much planning and scheduling to begin with - those folks who like to go on vacation like this - folks that would come to a Disney board to begin with - are by nature not typical.

I'm not arguing that I am typical myself - but I think after all these years of being the person at every workplace, social gathering, or pretty much any place I am being the "Disney expert" that folks come to (I've helped hundreds of folks plan trips at this point, and given advice to many more) I believe I have a decent idea of how "average" visitors react, and I can tell you the one constant has always been "wow there is just an overwhelming amount of planning, too much" - a lot of folks can't even comprehend how a theme park needs six-month-out dining reservations, let alone the concept of scheduling a 5 minute ride three months in advance.

OK weird but that is not me you are replying too. In other words my name is attached but they are not my posts. Not sure what happened. It's from post #133 it looks like.
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
(my exact post)

"I don't want to go to Disneyland, I want to go to WDW. It's a much better resort for us. No need to wake up, we know what we want."

Where did I say I was not interested in Disneyland? I clearly said WDW is a better resort for us. We don't go to WDW because we are "asleep" we do so because we prefer it.

For the record both DL (April) and WDW (June) received our money this year already. But two parks at DL is not enough to satisfy us for a week while WDW has more than enough to do so. We also like the amount of variety at WDW compared to DL. It a more "pro WDW" opinion than a "anti DL" opinion.

When you say “I don’t want to go to Disneyland” you ARE saying you are not interested in Disneyland. That is EXACTLY what you are saying. There is no other way to interpret it. Some people will also infer you have never been from that statement.

Honestly are you so vain that you think your opinion is the only valid one on the subject and anyone not agreeing with it "just does not understand"?

Differing opinions are encouraged. It invalidates your argument however when you are using words incorrectly. In your examples you do just that. I can’t say anything more to the point without it reported as attacking your intelligence.

If your best argument is my kid thinks it’s cool than you’re in trouble. I imagine they are not allowed to make a lot of decisions yet and that’s because they lack critical thought and understanding.

As an fyi… Disney is not the first company to use RFID to “magically” open hotel rooms or gain entry into a park/event. Personally I didn't it to be anything special. Then again I’m not a kid. :)
 

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